What do you think of the US use of Extrodinary Rendition

[Hawk Thanatos]

[Tullaryx]

I don't know if it supports it or not. I haven't seen the movie, yet. The description is a summarization of what the movie's basic plot.

Here's the site with the trailers for the film. You may get a better idea of what you think the movie is about and whether it supports it or not.

Rendition trailers
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[Ninjar]

First of all, you can't claim it is solely for gathering intel, because everyone they take to their little torture camps isn't a terrorist. Therefore, they would be torturing people who are a) innocent or b) have no means of making the torture end quickly.

Also, I ask myself how Bush can condemn the junta in Myanmar when people are being TORTURED in the name of freedom under his administration?

[Scarlet Assassin]

[Ninjar]

You can't be absolutely certain that someone has intel unless they are a high level operative for whatever terrorist organization they represent, but there have most certainly been cases of mistaken identity. They amounts to exactly the same thing.

[Tullaryx]

See that's the dilemma that will never have a satisfying answer for supporters and detractors of rendition. It's sort of like what came first the chicken or the egg. If someone is suspected of being part of a terrorist cell and there's evidence that may support it then supporters will say that extraordinary rendition is a necessary evil and tool to use to get as much information from this suspect in order to prevent future terrorist acts. Detractors of rendition will say that unless this suspect was a known high-level terrorist then an innocent man may get tortured for no reason other than having a name that resembles a terrorist.

I think there's no argument from most that extraordinary rendition, or even torture for that matter, is something that leaves a bad taste in any civilized human being, but unless someone has found a way to extract information which can prevent terrorists from committing acts of mass murder on innocent civilians then it will always remain as an option to be used by even the most civilized society.
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[Rune hunter]

[Tullaryx]

Well, for those who are saved by information gathered through rendition would say that the price paid, no matter how immoral and high, is fine for them since it was their life that was saved. It's hard to tell a person whose family was killed that information that could've been gathered through rendition might've been the one to save them.
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[Rune hunter]

And its just as hard to tell the family of anyone who is falsely accused and then forced to endure imprisonment for info they do not have that its was a neccesary evil to save people they don't even know about.

Not to mention in the long run extrodinary rendition looks detrimental to the war on terror. I mean your suppose to show moderate muslims that the west are the "good guys". How can you prove that to them when your willing to implore dirty tactics that make you look no better than the extremists your fighting?

[Tullaryx]

Which brings the dilemma to the subject that is extraordinary rendition. I don't think anyone would argue that the practice is cruel and barbaric when put up next to the laws and principles of a democratized society. But even such societies will need people willing to sacrifice their own high principles if it meant serving the greater good. No one wants to be the one to make the order to have someone tortured for vital information, but then it's those same people who won't want to do it who will complain loudest that its government did nothing to prevent the crime or terrorist act from occurring.

One thing I always like to ask those who vehemently say they're against the practice is what should be done to get information to prevent terrorist acts. If extraordinary rendition is so abhorrent and is not an accurate means of gaining information then what other ways should be used. While I don't see rendition as the definite form of information gathering I also know that it is an option that shouldn't be taken off the table. People who hide behind their principles rarely have any other way they can recommend to gather intel.

Some would say change in foreign policy is one way to go but that doesn't work if the opponent is dead set in eradicating a certain way of life and willing to die to make it so. So, I ask those against rendition what sort of procedures can you recommend that you think works best which can prevent terrorist acts from occuring.
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[Hawk Thanatos]

The American government isn't sacrificing their own high principles since they've proven time after time that those principles don't exist. They can beat their chest and declare themselves leaders of the free world but their actions have shown that they don't value freedom at all. To be honest it's not the torture I care about, if the people really do intend to attack innocent people then I'm not going to lose sleep over them being tortured but I think there needs to be a more formal system for it. Give them a fair trial and if they're found guilty then they can try and get whatever information they can from them.

[Rune hunter]

[Tullaryx]

You really haven't offered up any other form of ways to gather intelligence. What you've offered up is change in governmental policy which takes time and usually a radical change in how governments deal with each other. As for Hawk's assertion that high principles don't exist for the U.S. I'm thinking you confuse the current administration's actions for the whole population. The fact that people will actually debate this topic without being tortured in the U.S. shows that it does have high principles. So please, do not mistake the actions of the few to label the majority. And that's the thing about the actions of these few.

Yes, rendition may just be a stopgap since its very nature does lead to more extremism from those affected by it, but then again like the riddle of which came first the chicken or the egg, rendition has become such a necessary tactic and tool because of the actions of extremists who sees attacking civilians as something they deem necessary. I think I've made my point clear that as deplorable as rendition has been I've not seen, heard or read of any other means which can take its place as a way to gather important information which would save lives.

As for the people who will use rendition to get the information they need to stop terrorist acts I'm going to assume that the fact they're using such tactics means they will sleep soundly. For those who don't then that means that despite the nature of rendition they saw the need to use it to save lives. For some losing sleep and having a guilty conscience is a sacrifice they will be willing to make to save lives. I can't condemn such people for I don't know how I would react if such a situation was presented to me. I don't think anyone here could say for certain they may not contemplate doinng the same thing if they thought it meant saving lives.
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[Hawk Thanatos]

[Rune hunter]