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Sniper_Zegai
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think Ive offended you Yvl and that was'nt my intention. I was just pointing out how Americans are portrayed from this side of the pond. Im not saying that my generalisation was true I was just saying thats how it looks. And I do have a confession to make. I watch alot of Oprah and Dr. Phil so Im willing to admit my veiw on this is warped. Becuase Oprah mentions god and how great it is to be an American and Dr.Phil covers that sort of Country boy Texas stereotype that is easy to hate.
And I have to agree with Exile. America was new and very small during its founding and the truth is they were all immagrants anyway technically, its not at all surprising and just becuase they were the one of the first to allow immagration does'nt change the facts there will be people who judge people of different ethnicities, Im not trying to make Americans out to be racist becuase racism is an issue in most countries, its undeniable that immagration is a topic that many talk about in America (on the media at least) and as said the media are'nt balanced but when they stick with one kind of stereotype its hard to shake off.
Anyway I say this to clear up any confusion. As said if I offended you Yvl I am sorry, I was just commenting on what I see. Any generalisation is going to be wrong no matter who its about, hell thats not opinion its basic mathematics I guess lol. I just got the feeling you took it personally. Sorry.
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Amyral
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
Firstly, 99% of media is bullshit. They know that things that are considered outrageous cause people to be glued to their TV / paper / etc so they either only report on the outrageous things or they present them in a way that causes outrage. The pompous american one seems to be common in other countries. |
That's bullshit.
Media isn't just the screaming heads and all-day news channels, that portion makes up a minority. Now, those segments of the media is what make up the majority of the media that goes beyond our shores, and the segment people tend to focus disproportionately on, but they hardly make up all of it, or even most of it. It's the screaming heads that are most shown, and that's the reason for the perception. Because they are the most shown, every other media outlet is lumped with them, despite the fact that they make up a minority of the views.
The vast majority of media isn't nearly as bad as you are claiming. The vast majority of media outlets aren't sensationalists, and that is, in fact, one of the things they intentionally go out of their way to avoid. Selling papers is the job of the publisher, not the reporter or the editor, and in the end, only the reporters and editors can make things overly sensational. Do all outlets go overboard at some points, sure, but it's the exception, not the norm. The vast majority of media outlets will report the news.
The current perception of people about the American media is just as much as a misperception as the view of America that is portrayed to non-Americans.
| Yvl wrote: |
| Also realize (and most non-americans seem to really fall into this trap) is that America is friggin huge. It's impossible to compare Pennsylvania's culture to Texas'. Each state may as well be its own country as far as discussion about the american people. The majority of the bad things you hear about America will probably come from the region known as the "Bible Belt," which is only about a quarter of America. The subcultures that disgrace america tend to be more prevalent there - the gun nuts, rednecks, republicans (j/k), etc. And even further dispersed into that subculture are the nationalists that worship the American Flag as a God - the kind that you are probably hearing about on the news. |
And even then, it's impossible to state that there is a single culture in any particular region. Even in the bible belt there is hardly a single culture. I live in one of the most conservative states in the union, and our state administrative branch is mostly democrat run. In this last election, it only further cemented that control. Yet the state is so predictable in presidential elections that no candidates even come because the republicans are declared the winner in the state five minutes after the polls close.
| Exile wrote: |
| Don't they use it in college sports or something? Naming top college footballers as All-Americans each year or something along those lines? |
They use it in all non-professional level sports to indicate that someone is viewed by whoever it is doing the rankings as one of the best in the nation, thus they are the best of all the athletes in America. There's no real science behind it. That really is the primary usage of it nowadays.
However, in college sports it's much less prevalent, because there are scores of other awards that come into play more.
| Exile wrote: |
| Still, would I say the average American is more patriotic than the average European, or that America as a nation is more patriotic than my own country? I think I would. It's things like being required to recite the pledge of alleigance in schools (if this is still the case, I suspect it may vary by state or even school) that make me err to that conclusion, we don't have a similar convention here, most people don't even realise there's a second verse to 'God save the Queen'. |
Most Americans don't realize there is a second verse to 'Star-Spangled Banner' and many can't even recite the pledge of allegiance, which, for the most part, isn't required to be said in schools anymore, certainly not public schools.
Last edited by Amyral on Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sniper_Zegai
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I can smell an discussion brewing but I dont want to get into that becuase as always, Amyrals posts are way to thought out for me to respond to.
I think you guys oversetimate my intelligence when reading my posts. When I said all-american I did'nt wanna know where it came from, dictionary wise. I wanted to know what it meant literally. I mean when I say my freind is all-american does it mean hes a god lover, or patriotic, or some other kind of stereotype. Its always used in a posotive light but when I hear it. I dont really get what people are trying to say about that person. If I said I was all-english. What am I meant to mean by that? I have a strong accent or I play cricket or rugby. Thats all my point was. It just seems like a good example of American superiority. Just saying someone is all-american instantly makes them a nicer person or something.
I kinda rambled on. Do you know what I mean? Cause I dont think I explained it well.
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Yvl
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think Ive offended you Yvl and that was'nt my intention.
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Nonsense. It does offend me when people single out Americans as the source of unfavorable aspects of human nature though, which you've come pretty close to.
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And I do have a confession to make. I watch alot of Oprah and Dr. Phil
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Admitting it is the first step on the road to recovery.
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its not at all surprising and just becuase they were the one of the first to allow immagration does'nt change the facts there will be people who judge people of different ethnicities
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This is one of those "human nature" things. Just look at any online game: When you first arrive in that world, they call you a noob and to go back to whatever world you came from. It's the same in real life. It's a feeling of superiority not because of where they were born, but because they've been there longer than you.
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That's bullshit.
Media isn't just the screaming heads and all-day news channels, that portion makes up a minority. Now, those segments of the media is what make up the majority of the media that goes beyond our shores, and the segment people tend to focus disproportionately on, but they hardly make up all of it, or even most of it. It's the screaming heads that are most shown, and that's the reason for the perception. Because they are the most shown, every other media outlet is lumped with them, despite the fact that they make up a minority of the views.
The vast majority of media isn't nearly as bad as you are claiming. The vast majority of media outlets aren't sensationalists, and that is, in fact, one of the things they intentionally go out of their way to avoid. Selling papers is the job of the publisher, not the reporter or the editor, and in the end, only the reporters and editors can make things overly sensational. Do all outlets go overboard at some points, sure, but it's the exception, not the norm. The vast majority of media outlets will report the news.
The current perception of people about the American media is just as much as a misperception as the view of America that is portrayed to non-Americans.
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I watch the news regularly, and at least 50% of it is bad news. A fire here, or another bomb in Iraq, etc. To give you an idea of how much good news I see, at another forum I go to, we have a a news forum, and a subforum called "Victory day" for good news. It's been posted in once.
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Amyral
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
I watch the news regularly, and at least 50% of it is bad news. A fire here, or another bomb in Iraq, etc. To give you an idea of how much good news I see, at another forum I go to, we have a a news forum, and a subforum called "Victory day" for good news. It's been posted in once. |
And?
How does that prove it's sensationalist, or that "99% of media is bullshit"? That indicates that you don't see much good news (although, you say at least 50 percent is bad news, that indicates there is a healthy chunk of good news in there that you just aren't focusing on). That doesn't mean that they are covering the news in a means to make it sensational.
Second, that's the fundamental difference between broadcast news and print news. Local media outlets in general have an hour. Those fires, those are news that need to be covered. There are a lot of events that need to be covered, and they generally have less space to deal with it. When you have those 24 hour news, they work on a more international level, which makes even more real news.
I read newspapers regularly, there's a variety of different articles in there, more so than you see on regular news casts. In fact, I'm positive that I can pick any paper in the US at random and find a variety of different types of news, good, bad and indifferent.
As for your other forum, that doesn't really prove anything to me. I don't know how many people actually read newspapers or watch newscasts on that forum and I don't know how many of them think any of the good news they see is worth being posted on the forum. That all depends on the nature of the forum and its posters, and that doesn't mean that media outlets don't report good news. |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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How does that prove it's sensationalist, or that "99% of media is bullshit"? That indicates that you don't see much good news (although, you say at least 50 percent is bad news, that indicates there is a healthy chunk of good news in there that you just aren't focusing on). That doesn't mean that they are covering the news in a means to make it sensational.
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Beats me, I just worded my first post wrong, probably. I also use hyperbole alot. So whatever.
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Thor McOdin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if it is so much bad news as it is bad journalism (the people who get their own shows, anyway). I think we can all agree that once you get your own credits and theme song on the news, you pretty much sold your soul. As I was saying, it's too much to handle at once, both news and the internet alike (a circuit overload if you will). Here is a typical day when watching all the news outlets:
CNN: "What is going on in Iraq? In other news, John Murtha wants to bring back the draft. Shocking new developments, *insert candidate's name here* has just said *something that makes a whole lot of sense/something bad*. This just in, cute otters have been spotted at a zoo holding hands."
Fox: "Iraq. Sure, things didn't turn out so great. However, if we leave, the terrorists win. In other news, what is up with that Bill of Rights thing that I have been hearing so much about? Here we are in San Diego, a city rich in history. And yet, people want to have a cross taken down from a local cathedral. Why? So, panel, what is up with those Democrats? Do they really hate America? It's time to end this segment with *Your Voice, The Last Word, etc.*."
Headline News: "This just in. Breaking news. We are getting word. Something is occurring *repeat ad nauseum*."
MSNBC: "What does this new bill mean? In local news. Breaking news overseas. So, about the Republicans in the Democratic-led Congress. Dick Cheney just shot another guy in the face. Tucker, you are correct. This is Hardball. I'm Keith Olbermann; good night, and good luck. This is Scarborough Country. What is destroying American today? *This slot reserved for documentary about prison or child predators*."
The media doesn't care anymore as they are trying to make a buck through shock entertainment. I prefer a day where I will read the Times and just ignore the major news outlets. That is optimal to me.
As for nationalism/patriotism, isn't it funny how the people that purchase the "Salute the Troops" stickers are the ones whom have never served or are not planning to serve? I live in one of the reddest states and such actions to me are very questioning.
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Yvl
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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As for nationalism/patriotism, isn't it funny how the people that purchase the "Salute the Troops" stickers are the ones whom have never served or are not planning to serve? I live in one of the reddest states and such actions to me are very questioning.
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They could have family in the military, or be disabled from entering.
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Thor McOdin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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And here I thought we would be discussing the media. Silly me. Yes, you are right, Yvl. That is true. I have both, though, and I don't carry a sticker. I guess that makes me "unpatriotic."
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Yvl
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Or just cheap or lazy, like me.
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Sniper_Zegai
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Well Im glad your not pissed off Yvl. Im in rehab with my fellow Opraholics now lol. Anyway I thought you were saying earlier that 99% of what the media were saying was lies. Now that you've clarified, I agree with you to a certain extent.
I wish there were more "Cat saved from tree" type stories around. But to be fair, I tune in more often when something horrible has happened, But I dont see why 24hour news channels cant give a bit of time to the lighter, more jollyier side of the news. If the world was actually like a news channel, then I'd kill myself right now.
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Looking at Nationalists, i observe that people in the far-right of the political spectrum (i.e Nationalists in this case) shy away from being labeled at right-wing. One example is Jean Marie Le Pen (He makes conservatives in France look like hippies.) on Wikipedia:
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| Le Pen and the National Front are described by much of the media and nearly all commentators far right. Le Pen himself and the rest of his party disagree with this label. Earlier on in his political career, Le Pen described his position as "Neither left nor right, but French" (Ni droite, ni gauche, français). |
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