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Amyral
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 Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Chimei Star wrote: |
| But there is, because it's spreading ;) . |
Hah, nice comeback. 2 points for that one. |
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Tullaryx
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
| See, what did I tell ya? You all focused on the video games and missed the fact they were drunk and stoned at the time. It's not surprising that someone would confuse games with reality when they're in an altered state of conciousness. |
No, I didn't miss the fact that they were drunk and stoned. I don't discount any factor that might have led these kids to do what they did. I'm all for game deregulation and for the government to stay off trying to regulate how games should be distributed, but I also don't discount the fact that some kids out there think it's very cool to act out things they see in video games.
Does this mean games are to blame? No, I don't think games are to blame but the people who are suppose to be watching what they play and do who are to blame. People dismiss anyt report of video games being a factor in violent behaviors in some kids but like any form of media and art they do inspire and in these cases provoke certain individuals to act out on their impulses without any sort of moral compass to guide them to what is right and what is wrong.
To say that violent games do not at the very least influence certain individuals is taking the extreme side of the debate. Everyone is influenced by what they see, hear and listen to and that includes violent games.The fact that alcohol and drugs just makes these kids even more detached from their own mores and personal decent behavior just make things worse.
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Rune of Corruption
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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The video game argument is tenuous at best because it throws out high instances of wanton violence in the past. Cast your minds back to the nineteenth century America. It was technically wrong, but no one cared too much if a group of young white males go and get drunk and beat a black male for no apparent reason outside of being black and this occurred often. This is not the only instance of wanton human violence towards other humans. In Africa now you have all the tension in Sudan. That has always been there and lets not forget all the ethnic tension in the Middle East. The list just goes on and on and covers all eras. Video games is not the problem its the mentality that makes people feel superior to others. That superiority leads to all types of problems including. In the cases I listed they happened because one body of people felt that they were better than another group of people. Until this mentality stops, these problems will continue to rise.
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Tullaryx
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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What you're trying to inject into this debate is general violence inherent throughout all cultures and regions. The topic I was trying to make an argument on was about teenagers committing acts of violence on the helpless and downtrodden homeless. Then how some of these kids have mentioned while grabbing and in police custory about how it felt like they were in a game (video or not) while committing their acts.
I think there's already a topic somewhere around here to discuss the general cause and root of violence through man's history. Whether its part of our nature or nurtured into our psychological make-up by our environment.
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Rune of Corruption
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tullaryx wrote: |
What you're trying to inject into this debate is general violence inherent throughout all cultures and regions. The topic I was trying to make an argument on was about teenagers committing acts of violence on the helpless and downtrodden homeless. Then how some of these kids have mentioned while grabbing and in police custory about how it felt like they were in a game (video or not) while committing their acts.
I think there's already a topic somewhere around here to discuss the general cause and root of violence through man's history. Whether its part of our nature or nurtured into our psychological make-up by our environment. |
That wasn't my intention. My intention was to point out some fallacies in the "video games is the problem" theory. In my mind what better way to do this than to look to the past for instances of wanton violence done by young and old people. Another way is to look at the violence rates in young people world wide, in developed and in undeveloped lands. It a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is to look to other people to prove the argument that video games has a detrimental effects on kids.
I am sorry for the confusion. Once again, my intention was to point out fallacies in the argument about video games being the cause of violence in kids today.
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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When I pointed my finger I didn’t do so in regards to violence but in regards to this particular issue of Homeless people getting beat up and killed…
You see I’m a homicidal maniac and suddenly get the urge to kill, mutilate and beat up homeless people I walk out the door and guess what? I can’t find any!
That is because the number of homeless people in the US probably make all the homeless people of Europe combined (at least the ones that are actually in the streets)… And if I really like to beat up on homeless I should take a trek around Europe (mostly the UK, Germany and France) and start actively hunting for the homeless in certain neighborhoods and so on…
This is a US thing I rarely hear of homeless people getting bad treatment in any country in Europe or the rest of the world perhaps they don’t get much exposure…
As for the reason we focused on the video game issue isn’t in natural?
We are a community that focuses on a game it is natural to be protective of the industry and feel insulted by comments like these…
I’m also surprised that nobody pointed the finger at that reality show that involved homeless people fighting each other, so I guess to the list of society vices we have to add reality TV now…
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Fu Su Lu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Tullaryx wrote: |
| . The topic I was trying to make an argument on was about teenagers committing acts of violence on the helpless and downtrodden homeless. Then how some of these kids have mentioned while grabbing and in police custory about how it felt like they were in a game (video or not) while committing their acts. |
I think those kids are lying, ok, maybe there is some really ill teenagers who really believe they are ina video game. My point is they know what they do is wrong and they know that blaming video games is what a part of society want to hear, so:
1) They are less gulity, they even can find some mercy
2) The debate focuses on another problem.
Its just a charade.
And Aregeneth, thats not so strange in Europe, in Spain, my country, it has unfortunately happened sometimes. Some sons of b*** burnt alive a woman in Barcelona a couple of years ago. they were teenagers and their families were rich, the poor kids were just bored. Vomitive.
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phoenixflame
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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I have to admit, I hate it when people bring in video games in this sort of thing, I play violent and disturbing games, but I don't go around feeling the need to attack homeless people, or anyone for that matter...
In Europe, we have more of the "happy slapping" culture, where groups of kids, or adults for that matter, attack someone else, and then video it, and then send it onto their mates... That kind of thing really disturbs me, I really don't understand the mentality, but it seems like alot of people seem to find it amusing, I hate the fact that they call it happy slapping when it should be what it is, assault.
With regards to the article in question, it seems like the kids had nothing better to do with their time... The only sentence I can say would've been enough was a life sentence, it sounds like they thought no-one would look to deeply into the death of a homeless man..
It;s a reflection on society that people have this mentality that someone else's life is worth nothing that they would just extinguish it, regardlees of who they are, and picking on someone who is homeless is just one of the lowest thisngs you can do, they are already down, why would someone feel the need to bring then lower?
Sorry for the really long post guys, it's just something I needed to say, hope that's OK! :) |
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Fu Su Lu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| phoenixflame wrote: |
In Europe, we have more of the "happy slapping" culture, where groups of kids, or adults for that matter, attack someone else, and then video it, and then send it onto their mates... That kind of thing really disturbs me, I really don't understand the mentality, but it seems like alot of people seem to find it amusing, I hate the fact that they call it happy slapping when it should be what it is, assault.
Sorry for the really long post guys, it's just something I needed to say, hope that's OK! :) |
Thats so damn right. thats an ill craze. Hitting homeless, or paying them money, or just giving them a bottle of the cheapest wine, just for them to do humiliating things. Not to mention the kids on school hitting the less popular kids, recording it...and dealing with, exchanging those videos for others! Im just upset brother
Oh, it wasnt a long post at all ^^
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| And Aregeneth, thats not so strange in Europe, in Spain, my country, it has unfortunately happened sometimes. Some sons of b*** burnt alive a woman in Barcelona a couple of years ago. |
Yes I actually remember that particular case it made it to the news down here…
But before any gunslinger jumps the gun on me let me quote thee:
| Quote: |
| This is a US thing I rarely hear of homeless people getting bad treatment in any country in Europe or the rest of the world perhaps they don’t get much exposure… |
I hope that is clear enough…
This is a US thing in the sense that in the US is a trend (just look at the article for that) and that it has more homeless people than most countries. No that I never happen or doesn’t happen from time to time or to a lesser degree elsewhere…
They even beat up one of the like five homeless people we got ‘round here five years ago (fortunately he didn’t die just got bruised) and the news was all over it…
| Quote: |
| Sorry for the really long post guys, it's just something I needed to say, hope that's OK! |
Don’t worry long posts are encouraged in this forum not frequently read perhaps but encouraged none the less…
What pisses me off the most in the 2004 case in the article is that the damn hooligans after killing the poor man went to McDonalds to eat like nothing happensed… Goes to show that youth is quite detached by the concept of act and consequence…
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sybillious
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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what's sad about this, tullaryx, is that a little over 20 years ago, acts of violence similar to this (and some suicides) were blamed on metal music.
they're simply looking for somewhere else to lay the blame; they're sorry, but not sorry about what they did, they're sorry they were caught.
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Ujitsuna
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a blame culture, that's the problem, that's why everyone is looking for easy solutions to complex problems. |
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Cloudless Eye
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Killing someone for sport should never be considered a form of entertainment. However, as unappropriate as uncontrolled killing is we have many incarnations of it in society: video games, music, movies, T.V., books. A large ammount of our entertainment these days is based on the dismemberment of living creatures. It's expected to see some sort of consequences from allowing such violence into our society.
Then again, killing someone in a video game is meant to be "fun" and "fictional". It's understanding that this type of mind-set is gonna get etched into the minds of some teenager that killing is fine in certain situations. Sad..
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Tullaryx
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think Cloudless hit it right on the nail. It's not that the violent games themselves are at fault, but the fact that there are young people out there who uses the games as an excuse to act out on their violent impulses and tendencies. If not video games --- as syb also pointed out --- then it would be heavy metal (most likely death metal) or some other form of entertainment that lends itself to violence. In the end, video games are mentioned more because that's the dominant form of entertainment available to kids these days.
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Sniper_Zegai
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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JESUS CHRIST!?! I'm atcually speechless by what I'm reading. The fact that nobody in this group thought for a second that maybe kicking the crap out of a homeless was a horrible act and was nothing short of insane.
I've been drunk before and Ive been stoned (on one occasion with a cookie, I was tricked but I dont hold grudges) and Ive seen homeless people about but I have never ever had a voilent urge like this befoer. And I play voilent video games all the time, In factc I just completed Saints Row.
But you would have to be mad to do something this mad what other word is there in this instant. The fact that these sickos tried to pass it off as some sort of accident is testament to how a killer could be lurking around in any shape or form. This thread interested me but I had no idea this was actually going on.
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