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Daniel Blackhand
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 Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well for me personally, I thought it was a riot. I am so tired of watching sports anymore because of all the stupid rules they have anymore that a good old fashioned all out brawll breaking out is a refreshing turn for me.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Wallace started the incident which caused the fan the throw the cup. Wallace did not cause Artest to go up to the fan and try the beat the hell out of him, thus, causing the brawl. Understand? |
Wallace didn't cause Artest to go up to the fan, but Wallace caused the fan throwing the cup that led to Artest go up to the fan. It's all related, and in the end, Wallace's overreaction was the one that caused the whole thing. The foul was part of the game, the overreaction of shoving was not part of the game. Artest did the right thing by walking away, but the fan obviously felt the need to throw the cup at him because of what Wallace did. So no, Artest didn't start the brawl. Artest might started a one on one fight between him and the fan, but he did not start a brawl at all.
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| I think the NBA has already allowed many things so that they will not be "emotionless robots". Compare the game now to 15-20 years ago. Players these days are as stupid as they come. Do you think Micheal Jordan, Larry Bird, or Magic Johnson etc. would have charged the fan? |
Well you didn't see Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson being thrown by the fans, did you? So you'd never know what they would've done. But would you say that Charles Barkley or Dennis Rodman wouldn't? It all depends on the players, not the era of the players.
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| I am just trying to prove what Artest did was also wrong. |
Is there even anyone who said that what Artest did was right in the first place? Why are you trying to prove something that everyone already acknowledged and agreed anyway? Again, not saying that what Artest did was right, but understandable. For you to insist that he shouldn't have done that was not logical. The guy tried to do the right thing but further provoked. It's perfectly understandable for him to do what he did.
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| Well, the players have no reason to be in the stands. So that gave the Detroit fans a "logical" reason to go onto the court. |
Huh? Totally lost here. What's so logical for the fans to go onto the court just because a player is in the stands? But nevermind, moot point anyway.
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| However, the list of morons in the NBA is great. Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Allen Iverson, Carmello Anthony, Damon Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, Lebron James, and so on. |
Probably not even 10% of the whole NBA players and somehow it's a "great" list consisting of "many" players. You really made such a huge generalization there.
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| It is very unlikely an event would have happened if Artest did not charge the fan. It could have, but many less fans would have been involved. |
Well going back furthermore, it's very unlikely that the fan threw the cup at Artest had Wallace didn't overreact over nothing. Even by your logic, the blame would lie more to Wallace than to Artest. You can't blame Artest more than Wallace or the fan who threw the cup. If you tease and tease and tease and tease a friend, you only have yourself to blame when your friend decided that it's enough and beat you up or something.
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| Please, gravity hurts but it does not hurt that much. Again, he gets hit in the eye by a cup and is "hurt" by it. He charges the fan and takes the chance of getting hurt even worse. That is very logical. |
Obviously you don't realize how eyes are very fragile part of our bodies. Don't bother to try hitting your eyes with plastic cup filled with beer, just use wet handkerchief and you might already feel the pain.
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| I have seen worse hits to the eye in events like this, and people have walked away from it without letting their emotions get to them. |
Example?
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| You can not let emotions get a hold of you in a sport like Artest did, no matter the circumstances or age of the player. |
There you go again, expecting the players to be emotionless robots.
But nevermind, Artest is suspended for the rest of the season while Jackson and O'Neal got 30 and 20 match suspension respectively. Ben Wallace? Lucky six games suspension only. I find the punishment to be too harsh, the season just started for like 10 games and Artest was suspended for 70-90 games (depending on how far Pacers go in the playoffs if they reached it) and must wait for almost a full year before he could play for Pacers in the NBA again. Granted that what he did was probably considered as a very bad thing, but I just don't see the point of suspending him for the rest of the season would be a good example. Heck, I might attend a Lakers game and start throwing cups at Kobe and hope that he'd punch me and get suspended for the rest of the season so Lakers would enter the lottery.
I would like to know what kind of punishment Detroit Pistons (or the police) gave to the fans that are involved in the brawl. Most likely nothing. The players are always the ones who suffered the more despite being as wrong as the fans.
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Locke
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:53 am Post subject: |
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The NBA, it's FAN-tastic.
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Cedric
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:21 am Post subject: |
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As a professional at Ron Artest's degree, you're paid millions of dollars to do you job. It's practically implied and suggested that you do that job in a civilized manner. We can argue all we want about the behavior of the players and fans, and whether Artest was justified in his actions, but professionals should maintain some sort of restraint. He charged the fans, whether he was right or not, and he was punished for it. I will give him credit for not blowing up in Ben Wallace's face after the shove, but really, he shouldn't have laid down on the scorer's table like that. It was a cocky, irrational move, and some of us saw where it was headed in advance.
Let me say something about Stephen Jackson, though. I agree with what Stephen A. Smith said that Jackson's penalty should have been more severe, and Artest's more lenient. You can argue that Artest was defending himself. But in no way, did I see that Stephen Jackson was put in a position to defend himself. He ran up the stands and basically clocked the guy out of nowhere. People can say that he's trying to defend his teammate because teammates are like family, but you can defend a family member by taking them out of the brawl, not participate in it. Same thing goes for Jermaine O'Neal, but his was justified, since he didn't go into the crowd.
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Sheesh. This reminds me of watching the news at one time, showing that there was a council of (one of those former Soviet States....Azerbaijan, i believe)'s government. Tempers flared through words....and then with glass. One of those politicians actually threw his glass in another one's face! And then started the real fighting.
As for Bugg, saying that we all are
| Bugg wrote: |
| expecting the players to be emotionless robots. |
, i would agree with you, but professional atheletes are supposed to deal with criticism. I mean, when some punk used those laser pointers at Karl Malone's face some years ago, Malone didn't throw the baskeball in they moron's face.
But really, what was that fan trying to prove?
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Cedric
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, some fans seem to think that buying a ticket gives you the freedom to act like an idiot during the game. Fixing the problem will have to start from there.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Starslasher wrote: |
As for Bugg, saying that we all are
| Bugg wrote: |
| expecting the players to be emotionless robots. |
, i would agree with you, but professional atheletes are supposed to deal with criticism. I mean, when some punk used those laser pointers at Karl Malone's face some years ago, Malone didn't throw the baskeball in they moron's face.
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Those are two very different matters and unfortunately irrelevant when you wanted to compare the two things. Being pointed by laser pointers would distract you for sure, but it was only going to be "annoying". Probably up to the point that he'd tell the security to remove the fan or something. But obviously no reason for you to lose your cool.
On the other hand, what Artest received was already under physical attack where he was physically thrown by an object by the fan. So they are two very different things.
Players don't knock fans out for being booed, players don't knock fans out for being distracted when shooting free throws on away games, players don't knock fans out for being teased. But when it comes to physical attack, it's a whole different issue. I repeat, there are limitations that all the fans, officials, and players would have to follow. While I admit that Artest did go beyond those limitation, it was purely as a reaction to the fan breaking that limit earlier.
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Bugg wrote: |
| Those are two very different matters and unfortunately irrelevant when you wanted to compare the two things. Being pointed by laser pointers would distract you for sure, but it was only going to be "annoying". Probably up to the point that he'd tell the security to remove the fan or something. But obviously no reason for you to lose your cool. |
Wow, you must be taking this pretty personally. I'm sorry if i offended you. All i'll say to this is that they certainly are different, but irrelevant? No. The two cases are about fans deliberately distracting/harassing the players.
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Baka
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, some fans seem to think that buying a ticket gives you the freedom to act like an idiot during the game. Fixing the problem will have to start from there.
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I really think they should tighten the security... |
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Starslasher wrote: |
| Wow, you must be taking this pretty personally. I'm sorry if i offended you. All i'll say to this is that they certainly are different, but irrelevant? No. The two cases are about fans deliberately distracting/harassing the players. |
Irrelevant because they are two different things. How could it be relevant when what happened to Karl Malone was totally a different thing compared to what happened to Artest?
While both are cases about fans annoying the players, both are still very different cases. It's like comparing shoplifting case and a murder case. Just because both are crimes doesn't mean that it is relevant to the other case.
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sybillious
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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this is beginning to get ugly; topic closed before things get really out of hand.
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