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surprised nobody said anything about wanting this game to be a sequal
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tekknopirate




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scrooge McDuck wrote:
Erh, nothing world-threatening has ever happened in the Suikoden series except for the third one, which turned some of the fans off because of that. Suikoden is not about saving the world, it is about ending wars.

And how would knowing the future would make the prequel boring? As far as I know, Dunan Unification War has nothing to do with Falena Civil War, so it should not take any excitement out of the plot.


3 turned off many fans? What fans??? Before suikoden 3, the suikoden franchise barely had any fans. Suikoden 1 sold hardly anything and suikoden 2 got medicore reviews and sold poorly to. Suikoden 3 got almost perfect reviews all around from ever internet sites even to game books such as gamepro, psm and more. So suikoden 3 is undoubtedly the best all around "OFFICIALLY".

Suikoden 3 was taking the series in a good direction and konami instead of building on it, scraped the whole thing with Suiko4 just to make ol suiko1 and 2 vets happy and now we're stuck with crappy suiko2 left overs which I means suiko4 and suiko5. While Suiko5 was good, I still felt like I was playing Suikoden 2 over.

As a previous person said many fans want the series to go foward and see whats going on with harmonia and other things that were mentioned in Suiko 3. And see what became of those heroes from Suiko 3.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

tekknopirate wrote:
Scrooge McDuck wrote:
Erh, nothing world-threatening has ever happened in the Suikoden series except for the third one, which turned some of the fans off because of that. Suikoden is not about saving the world, it is about ending wars.

And how would knowing the future would make the prequel boring? As far as I know, Dunan Unification War has nothing to do with Falena Civil War, so it should not take any excitement out of the plot.


3 turned off many fans? What fans??? Before suikoden 3, the suikoden franchise barely had any fans. Suikoden 1 sold hardly anything and suikoden got medicore reviews and sold poorly to. Suikoden 3 got almost perfect reviews all around from ever internet sites even to game books such as gamepro, psm and more. So suikoden 3 is undoubtedly the best all around "OFFICIALLY".

Suikoden 3 was taking the series in a good directing and konami instead of building on it, scraped the whole thing with Suiko4 just to make ol suiko1 and 2 vets happy and now we're stuck with crappy suiko2 left overs which I means suiko4 and suiko5. While Suiko5 was good, I still felt like I was playing Suikoden 2 over.

As a previous person said many fans want the series to go foward and see whats going on with harmonia and other things that were mentioned in Suiko 3. And see what became of those heroes from Suiko 3.


I'd say Suikoden 2 did more for attracting more fans than Suikoden 3 ever did. Suikoden 3 completely isolated any fans in Europe at the time (and still does to this day), since there where no methods to play it (Swap Magic etc.).

Suikoden 2 is generally considered by most to be the "best" or most well-rounded of the series, this is judging by most's opinion on the internet that is, it's not like this is an official survey... or is it? :p
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Scrooge McDuck

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

tekknopirate

What fans? Fans of Suikoden and Suikoden II, of course. I never said that it was worse or sold less statistically; I just said that the "saving-the-world" theme turned off many previous fans.

And where did you get the impression that Suikoden IV was made to make the old Suikoden fans happy? As far as I know, the fourth installment is generally hated.

Like I said before, I have no objection whenever the time setting would be. What practically disturbed me was how your arguments have nothing to do with timeline (the Prince not immortal, Lazlo ending is "cliché" and Suikoden IV being made "just to make ol suiko1 and 2 vets happy" and "crappy suiko2 left overs") which I do not see any reason to refute.

Your only relevant argument was only how "boring because no world-threatening event" argument, which was only happened in one-fifth of the series to begin with.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wes wrote:
tekknopirate wrote:
Scrooge McDuck wrote:
Erh, nothing world-threatening has ever happened in the Suikoden series except for the third one, which turned some of the fans off because of that. Suikoden is not about saving the world, it is about ending wars.

And how would knowing the future would make the prequel boring? As far as I know, Dunan Unification War has nothing to do with Falena Civil War, so it should not take any excitement out of the plot.


3 turned off many fans? What fans??? Before suikoden 3, the suikoden franchise barely had any fans. Suikoden 1 sold hardly anything and suikoden got medicore reviews and sold poorly to. Suikoden 3 got almost perfect reviews all around from ever internet sites even to game books such as gamepro, psm and more. So suikoden 3 is undoubtedly the best all around "OFFICIALLY".

Suikoden 3 was taking the series in a good directing and konami instead of building on it, scraped the whole thing with Suiko4 just to make ol suiko1 and 2 vets happy and now we're stuck with crappy suiko2 left overs which I means suiko4 and suiko5. While Suiko5 was good, I still felt like I was playing Suikoden 2 over.

As a previous person said many fans want the series to go foward and see whats going on with harmonia and other things that were mentioned in Suiko 3. And see what became of those heroes from Suiko 3.


I'd say Suikoden 2 did more for attracting more fans than Suikoden 3 ever did. Suikoden 3 completely isolated any fans in Europe at the time (and still does to this day), since there where no methods to play it (Swap Magic etc.).

Suikoden 2 is generally considered by most to be the "best" or most well-rounded of the series, this is judging by most's opinion on the internet that is, it's not like this is an official survey... or is it? :p


The internet is never a good way to judge "the majority's" opinion on things like video games, movies, music, etc. The reason being the majority of people that buy and play these things don't like it enough to go around to message boards talking about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The 4th Installment was generally hated, correct.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they made the next game either a sequel, a prequel, or neither. As long as the game is on the same world as the Suikoden world, and it's done correctly, it would still be great, even if it was a thousand years post-Three.

But if I had to say something, probably either that Zexen-Tinto thing or Higheast Rebellion. But I'm not sure if that's too small. Probably something Post-I,V Pre-V would be nice.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'll throw in my lot with those who want the game timeline to progress. I'm sick of all this backtracking with (seemingly) no real point to the overall Suikoden universe, other than to give us background. Tell us what the situation is on the Suikoden main continent, is Harmonia making a move? What about the previous nations, like Dunan and Toran? What is the destiny we're all hurtling towards? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Suikoden V, but it seems to have little point in the overall scheme of things.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lunarblade wrote:
I'll throw in my lot with those who want the game timeline to progress. I'm sick of all this backtracking with (seemingly) no real point to the overall Suikoden universe, other than to give us background. Tell us what the situation is on the Suikoden main continent, is Harmonia making a move? What about the previous nations, like Dunan and Toran? What is the destiny we're all hurtling towards? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Suikoden V, but it seems to have little point in the overall scheme of things.


Ah, but that's the thing, isn't it?

Who knows the overall scheme of things? For all we know, evolution is false, and fossils are God's version of a practical joke.

"Little point in the overall scheme of things." Is something that noone playing the game knows until the end of the series or game... Take Metal Gear Solid 2 or Kingdom Hearts 2. Those prologues? Did anyone know wtf they were about, or what they had to do with the game while they were playing the prologue? It was likely after(well after for MGS2), that such information is learned.

I like to think of it as a history lesson(a f'd up history lesson though, imo...). While everything that's occurring is going on in the same general time period, it's perhaps important for us to know about event B before we find out about event A. Why? The most obvious answer is that Event A ties into the cause of Event C more than Event B does(i'm going to assume you understand that, since i think i just lost myself)... Is that the reason? I don't think anyone will know until VI comes out... if we're lucky... if we're not... we may have to wait until IX or farther to find out the "grand design."

In the meantime, i'm going to go to my history book, and rearrange the pages...
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Dura Sinai




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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

But in all honesty, one of the greatest advantages with V is it did a good job of joining the 'early games' of the first three to the timeline jump we saw for 4 and Tactics. Had we known nothing of any neighboring nation, it would have been a rehash of Suikoden II.

IV was a garing jump due to the lack of references, but much of this has to do with how incomplete the actual story was. Characters were bland and all that. We've all heard it.

Now, would it be nice to see a timeline post Suikoden III? Sure. The game had a lot of younger characters, finished the stories of a few classic characters and was a bit of a setup for Harmonia. However that doesn't negate the validity of the prequel games if you will from existing. There are still years and years of wars that can exist in any direction.

I don't care about when the game takes place as long as the plot and characters are good and the game is interesting. It would be rather bland if everything was very linear and we always had half the cast returning every game.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lunarblade wrote:
I'll throw in my lot with those who want the game timeline to progress. I'm sick of all this backtracking with (seemingly) no real point to the overall Suikoden universe, other than to give us background. Tell us what the situation is on the Suikoden main continent, is Harmonia making a move? What about the previous nations, like Dunan and Toran? What is the destiny we're all hurtling towards? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Suikoden V, but it seems to have little point in the overall scheme of things.


If you pardon the cliché:
"To understand something, we must first have knowledge of its history."

Who are we to say that the Falenan Civil War is less important than the Second Fire Bringer War? I hope you did not intend to imply that just because the later was more recent, it is automatically more significant than the former. To me, they all are history; they were just not presented to us in a chronological order.

Also, there is no "main" continent in the Suikoverse; they are just continents. The fact that the first game was set in one of them hardly made it the main. I could similarly have the same anticipation as yours: What the situation is in the Southern Continent; is Nagarea up to something? Would New Armes find its political stability? What about previous nations, like the Island Nations and Gaien?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With all this drama you guys are getting a little off the topic that tekknopirate, proposed.

I would agree with tekknopirate. I would very much love the suikoden world to continue on. I personally hated the fact that both suikoden IV and V didn't continue the timeline after suikoden III.

One of the great things of suikoden is the fact of data loading and playing the history. Getting to see the old faces and their sons/daughters. I loved seeing Viktor and Flik at the beginning of suikoden II. And Futch and Luc in suikoden III.
On the other hand suikoden IV the only people that could be a returning character are Viki and Jeane. And with suikoden V there were only a few that could be explained.

It just seems to me that the new storytellers and designers are to fearful to continue the story. The what happens after Luc's death. What happens to Geodde, Hugo, and Chris? Will Tir or Riou should up again? Will Flik and Viktor fight again? Is Edge still going to have the Zodiac Sword (which was in all three of the original stories). These are all questions that has gone un answered for 2 whole games. I would like to continue the original storyline.



Also I did the 99lvl cheat and i want to load the data to get something!!
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Arcana

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And pardon the internet phrase, but so many of you are treating this way too seriously.

It's nice to see backstory. But the fact of the matter is that many people now want to look forward. There are many unanswered questions in the latest installment of the series. By going back in time, they're not answering the unanswered questions. Sure, maybe Suikoden IV and V have raised a few additional questions that you wonder about, but overall, what are the greatest questions that we want answered?

Maybe it would have been worthy if IV and V answered questions about Jeane and Viki or something, but they don't. I haven't played V at all (please, no spoilers) so I don't know what the game looks at, but if it looked at issues like Hikusaak looking for true runes, or explored the Yuber and Pesmerga battle, or revealed the nature of the true runes.

But frankly, a lot of people here want to see what happens "at the end" of the series and feel that going back in time repeatedly is kind of a cop-out. It's like the Jeane and Viki thing. They appear in every game but they are really just a cheesy cameo now and I don't think Konami actually has any clue what they really are. They're gimmicks. I don't want to see the whole Harmonia thing and the Static World thing become Suikoden gimmicks too just to keep the series going on longer.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

well i would like to know the hero name and what true rune he posses also i want to what timeline the story sets in.

(out of topic) and is suikoden 5 a very good story?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Arcana wrote:
And pardon the internet phrase, but so many of you are treating this way too seriously.

It's nice to see backstory. But the fact of the matter is that many people now want to look forward. There are many unanswered questions in the latest installment of the series. By going back in time, they're not answering the unanswered questions. Sure, maybe Suikoden IV and V have raised a few additional questions that you wonder about, but overall, what are the greatest questions that we want answered?

Maybe it would have been worthy if IV and V answered questions about Jeane and Viki or something, but they don't. I haven't played V at all (please, no spoilers) so I don't know what the game looks at, but if it looked at issues like Hikusaak looking for true runes, or explored the Yuber and Pesmerga battle, or revealed the nature of the true runes.


Hohoho! Fair enough.

Like I have deliberately stated before, I have no qualm whatsoever about the next Suikoden's timeframe, whether it is sequel or prequel. What I found unnerving was only how tekknopirate's arguments possess no relevancies regarding timeframe.

Ah, to me personally, Suikoden V at least answered some mystery about Falena and its civil war. It also explained more - though not much - of Jeanne's nature. I think not all answers lie in the future, which is exactly why prequels are needed.

It would be insipid if all big mysteries in Suikoverse are finally elaborated only in the future's history tomes, no? Wouldn't it be more exciting to go back in time to see firsthand what is the fuss all about? Not just as a mere "backstory", but as a relevation that also affected the destiny and thrusted it forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unfortunately, you and I both know that the writers of the Suikoden series are not that organized. There is no grand vision anymore. As I said, many of the series' "mysteries" have now become gimmicks. The whole Big Viki/Little Viki thing was a gimmick in Suikogaiden. Jeane's a gimmick.

It's all just little toys that they toss in once in a while so people can go "Wow COOL~~~! Connections to other Suikoden games!"

Now, some games and stories do a good job of showing us a game, and then the next game goes and shows us something significant in the past. However, Suikoden has mostly been a forward-looking series until the past few games. We have a few mysteries that can be answered in the past. I mean, an instant bestseller would be a game that looks at the creation of Harmonia. It would make countless numbers of Suikoden fans squeal with delight. However, most casual fans, who are just hoping to see more of the future and what the story is going to bring, are kind of going to roll their eyes.

But... Suikoden... sorry. It can tell a good story but I don't think it's unified and planned in any way, shape, or form. It tries to be, but you can tell it's kind of tossed together at the last minute. I think the writers for the games are not really as inspired or motivated anymore. At least, that's the feeling I'm getting. I've heard rumours that the dev teams wanted to go back into the past to build games as "practice" so that when they advance the story line again, they're not "ruining things". Not that anyone has really cared about keeping the Suikoverse pure, or anything. :) The logic of going back in time to build games that don't really affect the main story arc that most fans have grown to love is understandable, I suppose. I don't think many players would have been happy to see Suikoden VII, the series finale, done by a new dev team that had no clue what it as doing. In any case, it seems like they learned what Suikoden games "feel" like (it only took them two games to do it), so I'd hope that they'd move forward with it, now.

Another staple of Suikoden games---importing your game data from the previous installment---has also crawled to a halt because there isn't any connection between the games anymore. Okay, so who cares about the Suikoden V data being imported into Suikoden VI? Unless Suikoden VI is about Falena again or something, then it's just not relevant. You don't see the connections from the past games, like importing the name of your hero, or your country, or whatever.

So, for the record, there are only two events I'd be willing to see in the past for Suikoden VI. I would be willing to see the formation of Harmonia. The only other event I'd be willing to see a game around would be the discovery of the True Wind and True Earth runes that led to the creation of Luc and Sasarai. Unfortunately, both of these events don't fit the Suikoden 108 stars, recruiting an army, rebelling against a country theme that well.

Seriously, the best place to go from here is forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Unfortunately, you and I both know that the writers of the Suikoden series are not that organized. There is no grand vision anymore. As I said, many of the series' "mysteries" have now become gimmicks. The whole Big Viki/Little Viki thing was a gimmick in Suikogaiden. Jeane's a gimmick.


Although that statement is really disappointing, it does seem that way. It's one of the weaknesses of long-term series of games. The continuity fluctuates and then disappear. As much truth as there is in that statement, i'd like to see that this plot will pull through...

So, in hopes of Suikoverse continuity, i hope that they do give a point for all these characters. For the sake of all the fans out there. Because if we don't support the Suikoden movement, it might crumble slowly into misunderstanding... :cry:
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