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Tenkai's background. Definite aristocracy?
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Vertius

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think the sword Barbarossa gave Teo was the one with the Sovereign Rune on it.

The one he gave Teo was called Prakk, while, at the end, the sword with the Sovereign Rune on it was called the Dragon King Sword.
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Masa

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rainrir wrote:
It was never really established that Geddoe got the Rune before the First Fire Bringer War...I think that he and Wyatt got theirs somewhere during that conflict, and not before.


Well the Fire Bringer War lasted 18 years and was 50 years before Suiko 3, and since Geddoe is 111, he would have had to got the True Lightning Rune when he was 43... and he doesn't really look that old to me. It's possible though.
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Vertius wrote:
I don't think the sword Barbarossa gave Teo was the one with the Sovereign Rune on it.

The one he gave Teo was called Prakk, while, at the end, the sword with the Sovereign Rune on it was called the Dragon King Sword.


So he had several swords. Did he have the Dragon King Sword during the Succession War?
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Probably not, the sword was a national treasure of the Scarlet Moon Empire, so it wasn't really meant to be swung about. Also, as Barbarossa was out of Gregminster when the war began, for a harvest festival, it's possible/probable the sword, being a heirloom, was back in Gregminster Palace.

If Barbarossa actually fought himself during the Succession War, which is a bit unlikely, I'd say he used Prakk.
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LeSquide




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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Scarlet Moon Empire was an expansionist, militaristic empire, and we've seen plenty of evidence that leaders fighting directly isn't unknown. Barbarossa was a grand, heroic figure toppled by his unfortuanate love for his wife and then Windy, and I don't have trouble believing that he would be directly involved in the Succession War.
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Linnaeus

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
So he had several swords. Did he have the Dragon King Sword during the Succession War?


In the very beginning of Suikoden I, when seeing Barbarossa with Teo, he mentions that his sword, Prakk, brought him many victories in the Succession War, and gives it to teo ro help him with the skimishes with the City-States of Jowston during the same time as the Gate Rune War. So, yes, Barbarossa used Prakk during the Succession war, but also had the Dragon King Sword.

As for the topic..I have wondered the same thing. The next Tenkai, and so on, will probably be the children of noble or otherwise well-known families. It's a Suikoden tradition, same as the return of Jeane and Viki.

The question we should be asking is, what kind of famous family will the Tenkai be born from next?
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Geddoe

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Part of me would rather see another everyman like Geddoe have a shot at being the hero. [See my previous post on the last page] Who is to say that someone aristocratic has a better chance of being able to wield a power like that than anyone else? I'd like to think that an everyman, coming to a crossroads in their life has this power dropped into their lap and then is charged with a destiny to do something good with that power might make for a more compelling story. We've seen how people in aristocratic positions *points to all of the previous Tenkais* have handled that responsibility, but what about a Joe Everyday sort of character that is just going about, minding his own business and he gets thrown into extraordinary circumstances? I understand that a lot of other video games in the RPG genre do this, where someone as dull and plain as dishwater gets their chance to be a hero [see most everything having to do with FF], but I honestly think that Suikoden could do something special with that concept and set it apart from every other game that has made that plot device the centerpiece of their game.

One good example of a possible everyday anybody hero was in Suikoden II, where Riou and Nanami are the adopted kids of Genkaku, but by then they were living quiet lives and while the memory of Genkaku's deeds still lived on and bore a significant part of what the future held for them, they had to go out and scramble and get everyone together on their own merits. I mean, in Suikoden V, the Prince had to go out and win battles on his own and everything, but every 5 seconds it's 'WHOAMG PRINCE!' [I love Suikoden V, but that is what that is.] I just think that the heroes shouldn't always be defined by their aristocratic backgrounds or whatever history precedes them, and that's why I guess that I would rather see John Q. Public get his shot, as opposed to someone else saying, 'Oh, he's the Prince of this' or 'He's the grandson of that hero'. It's one thing to see a game point out that one man can make a difference, I'd like to see if the kind of man that makes a difference would honestly matter.

As someone in a previous post mentioned, Lazlo also fits in this category - he's completely unaware of his heritage and is the leader because he beat Lino [his father, natch] in a duel. He was followed not so much for who he was [which, to everyone on the ship was just a guy from Razril floating in the middle of the ocean] but for his strength in a battle against the King himself. Lazlo got on by hooking up with the right people, and once he got on with the King himself, it was on like Donkey Kong from there.

I may have mentioned these things in my previous post, but I wanted to give a better explanation of why I would like to see a Joe Everyday do it and give more examples than just me being a homer for Geddoe. And I just thought of something - what if the next game takes the middle ground with this and has another rune separated into two, or two runes that are inextricably linked to a third rune [the third rune being the True Rune] and one aristocratic person and a Joe Everyday had one of the secondary Runes? Could you imagine the possibilties? And furthermore, would that actually work in a Suikoden game?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hey how come you didn't include Kyril. Kyril may not be a tenkai but he is the leader of there group(which incidentally consisted of several nobility and Lazlo). Kyril is the son of an engineer(and possible nobility but i dont really know)but he didn't use that to gather support.

Personally I dont care what the hero background is. All that is important is that the hero is likeable and well presented.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I just want to play a poor boy in the next game, is that so much to ask? :*laugh*:
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CAPTAIN PLANET

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why would they all of a sudden make the Tenkai a poor kid with no famous background whatsoever? The series has done fine so far wth the rich boys leading the armies. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mirage wrote:
Why would they all of a sudden make the Tenkai a poor kid with no famous background whatsoever? The series has done fine so far wth the rich boys leading the armies. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


You forget how they handled Suikoden IV. XD
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm good with hero's having a significant background of some importance or high standings within the nation, Tir being a perfect example.

I will agree with Suru though, as much as I like Suikoden V, hearing PRINCE every five words, was a bit of a pain. I like lesser important figures for the most part. Though I will admit, I really like the Prince :) That said, I really like Tir, too.

If they could get the same reaction and reasoning out of less important figures, just everyday good leaders, who the people have reason to follow, then by all means, I'd love to see it.

While they did sort of do such in Suikoden IV, since no one really treated Lazlo with any sort of artistocrat background.. you have to look at it in the light that he is arguably if not for certain the worst Suikoden hero with the least personality and very little depth and development.

While I imagine it can be done, I'd rather see another aristocrat or somewhat important figure head as a hero again before a failed attempt at a nobody who becomes a hero by circumstance.

Overall, I'll take whatever they can give that's done well, and done right :)
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Sami

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lazlo had a great personality, a little snappy, as evidence by his optional replies when recruiting and so on.

All these heroes, while having some sort of a famous background, have also had difficulty with it and have had to prove themselves on their own.

Tir was practically disowned by Teo until his death. The Liberation Army was also founded on Odessa's name, under which Tir had to work for a long time.

Riou was an orphan, raised by a discredited, fugitive war hero.

Thomas was completely disowned, and his father tried to put him down when he proved a nuisance.

Lazlo never even knew about his background.

And while Faroush had the highest social standing, he was also in a lesser position than the women of Falenan royalty and was discredited as rebelling against his sister, the queen.
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El Leon

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Freyjadour was possibly the best of the bunch. He wasn't in line for the throne but all his allies respected him and followed HIS orders. Most people who joined you, joined your cause, not someone else's as ended up being the trouble with Riou and Lazlo, who were just dragged into conflicts they didn't really want to. The fact The Prince was fighting to restore his family's place as well as his country truly gave him some personality, which is quite considerable considering he's still a silent hero.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

El Leon wrote:
Freyjadour was possibly the best of the bunch. He wasn't in line for the throne but all his allies respected him and followed HIS orders. Most people who joined you, joined your cause, not someone else's as ended up being the trouble with Riou and Lazlo, who were just dragged into conflicts they didn't really want to. The fact The Prince was fighting to restore his family's place as well as his country truly gave him some personality, which is quite considerable considering he's still a silent hero.


But I think that Riou and Jowy did show that this was a conflict they were passionate about and were involved in. This is especially in the case of Jowy because Riou never speaks much due to the fact the player can only select what he ever says every once in a while. Riou and Jowy fight for the peace of the whole of Dunan, Riou forms bonds with people in the City-States whilst Jowy retains and makes more in Highland.

(Dedicated to Angelus...)
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