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Pierrot Le Fou
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 Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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This is my 2 cents about the legalization of narcotics, I don't really have much to say on the other laws in question.
Alcohol vs. Marijuana (its a good place to start right?)
(From another forum, grasscity.com)
| Some Hippie wrote: |
| The reason alcohol is legal is because the government can tax it. they cant tax pot because people would grow it inside their house if it was legal and they cant tax something you grow for yourself. they would lose millions if pot was legal no one would drink anymore because pot would be practally free since your growing it. and thus they lose lots of money |
Theres an interesting idea, though I only partially agree, because if cannabis was legal you could just go down to the Smoker Friendlys and purchase a pack of joints. Then again, most stoners I know (or used to know) grew their own weed, so if it was legalized they'd probably continue to do so.
(From the same forum)
| Support Worker wrote: |
I am a support worker with addicts (mainly heroin) and what I've found out through my years of experance is
FACT
the # 1 killer of all drugs is tobacco
# 2 alcohol
# 3 prescription drugs
# 4 cocaine
# 5 herion
number 1,2 and 3 are legal what does that tell you
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Marijuana is probably one of the lowest on that list, if not the lowest; sure one could think, "If it was legal there'd be more deaths from it.." Well, you really can't die from smoking pot, there has never in recorded history been a case of someone dieing from overdosing on pot. The same goes for other natural drugs, salvia divinorum, opium, paotti, and hallucinogenic muchrooms; in case you never knew, Hallucinogens are substances that alter or produce false perceptions of sight, sound, taste, smell or touch. Sure there are situations you can find yourself in where you could be a danger to yourself, to avoid this all you have to do is experiment with these controlled substances in the right environment. Below are the facts of these natural drugs and the affects of overdosing (if any), I couldn't find anything on paotti but I've heard the worst thing that can happen is you get really sick, and lose your lunch.
http://www.drug-overdose.com/index.htm
| Drug-Overdose.com wrote: |
Marijuana: The Drug Awareness Warning Network Annual Report, published by the US federal government contains a statistical compilation of all drug deaths which occur in the United States. According to this report, there has never been a death recorded from the use of marijuana by natural causes. Unlike opiates, barbiturates or amphetamines, there seems to be little risk from the use of large amounts of marijuana. When a person smokes too much they feel very tired and lie down. When people swallow large amounts of hashish, occasionally they get sick to their stomach.
Marijuana's effect on the user depends on the strength or potency of the THC it contains. THC potency has increased since the 1970s but has been about the same since the mid-1980s. The strength of the drug is measured by the average amount of THC in test samples confiscated by law enforcement agencies. THC is the chemical in marijuana which makes you feel "high" (which means experiencing a change in mood and seeing or feeling things differently). Certain parts of the plant contain higher levels of THC. The flowers or buds have more THC than the stems or leaves.
Salvia Divinorum: The active constituent of salvia is salvinorin. Salvia divinorum is the sage plant commonly used by holy men and shamans for their religious purposes. It is a very popular recreational drug because it is legal. it is usually smoked through a pipe. Recreational dose can be 1-2 grams inhaled through a pipe. No recorded incidents of overdose. Excessive quantities do not cause harm.
Magic Mushrooms: The active constituent of mushrooms can vary from one mushroom to the other. Magic mushrooms are psychoactives found in many different types, they are taken orally in their natural dried form. Recreational dose can vary from one to the other but can by typically 1-2 grams of dried mushroom. No fatal overdoses ever reported with mushrooms. if the dosage is exceeded it can induce a sick feeling in the stomach.
Opium: Opium is the crudest form and also the least potent of the Opiate family. Opium is the milky latex fluid contained in the un-ripened seed pod of the opium poppy. As the fluid is exposed to air, it hardens and turns black in color. This dried form is typically smoked, but can also be eaten. Opium is grown mainly in Myanmar (formerly Burma) and Afghanistan. Today opium is sold on the street as a powder or dark brown solid mass and is smoked, eaten, or injected.
Being of similar structure, the opiate molecules occupy many of the same nerve-receptor sites and bring on the same analgesic effect as the body's natural painkillers. Opium first produces a feeling of pleasure and euphoria, but with its continued use the body demands larger amounts to achieve the same sense of well-being.
It is possible to overdose on opium. It is easier to overdose via an oral dose of opium. The habitual use of opium produces physical and mental deterioration. An acute overdose of opium causes respiratory depression which can be fatal.
* Overdose is usually not fatal, but is far more likely to be fatal if the person is alone.
* 2 out of 3 overdoses (fatal and non-fatal) occur when the person is alone at home.
* Heroin is not the only cause of overdose. People can become unconscious as a result of using other illicit drugs and/or alcohol.
* After not using or reducing use for any period of time, or while on a treatment program, a return to previous levels of use presents a high risk of overdose.
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One has to remember the classifications as well..
| Drug-Overdose.com wrote: |
Drugs are generally classified as either:
* PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
These require a doctor's authority to purchase them. Some common examples are; `Valium', `Morphine', and `Benzodiazepines' (sleeping tablets).
* NON-PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
Are drugs which may be purchased without prescription. They consist of headache compounds, cough elixirs, and similar mild medications, and can be purchased at virtually any chemist or retail outlet. Common examples are; `Panadol', `Aspro', `Vick's Cough Syrup', alcohol, and nicotine (cigarettes).
* ILLICIT DRUGS
Are drugs that are imported, grown or manufactured illegally. All illicit drugs are dangerous and usually imply a degree of dependence, or in some cases, addiction. Examples are; heroin, cocaine, amphetamines, `ecstasy', marijuana, meth and LSD.
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I know more people personally that are addicted to pain pills than meth. And believe me, I've known quite a few meth heads in my day. So I'm not saying legalize them all, I hate synthetic drugs I really do; but these natural drugs really aren't hurting anybody. People who say stuff like "Marijuana is a gateway drug." and "People who use drugs have a high probability of raping/killing others!" are really ignorant on the subject; unless you are speaking from personal experience you really have no right to say these things, just sound like you're a tool, repeating some after school special. Speaking of Tool, I'm a bit hypocritical I know.. "Its not a War on Drugs, its a War on Personal Freedom okay? Keep that in mind at all times."
One last thing for now about the Alcohol vs. Marijuana topic, (yea I trailed off a bit) theres this pretty informative essay on the matter.
http://www.cyberessays.com/Politics/92.htm
| Quote: |
1: Over 100 thousand deaths annually are
directly linked to acute alcohol poisoning. 2: In 4,000 years of
recorded history, no one has ever died from a pot overdose. 3: Alcohol
causes Server physical and psychology dependence. 4:
Alcohol is reported to cause temporary and permanent damage to all
major organs of the body. 5: Cannabis is a much less
violent provoking substance then alcohol. * With over 60 million
people using cannabis in the U.S. Today our laws and law
makers should view it under the same light. As they do alcohol. |
* In case anyone is wondering, I don't do drugs, and havn't for years.
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nocturne1337
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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huh how enlightening, my dad was a big drug addict in his day and he swears that marijuana caused him to lose interest in his favorite things and he lost his motivation. If he stayed away from it he would have went to stanford in soccor or tot he olympics in swimming
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Pierrot Le Fou
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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There's no need to be sarcastic nocturne1337, all I'm saying is what people do on their own time isn't anyones business but their own. Weed isn't perfect, its not for everybody, and if abused it will have negative longterm affects on people; but the same can be said for alcohol, prescription drugs, nicotine, caffeine, sex, even video games.. hell, anything can potentially cause problems in your life if you let it. And as far as motivation being robbed by marijuana, I happen to know quite a few "funtional stoners" that take care of their responsibilities no problem.
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Eden
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Law and Morale... The bottom line is that these two things are different. Even with law often based on a certain morale belief, especially when laws are based of or even almost similiar to religious writings, they are often not connected with morale. Is your morale belief hurt if somebody drives 5 mph faster than allowed? No, but most people are morally involved when someone gets murdered. Why is this? Some people don't care much about life. They know about starving people far away, about war crimes in a country a hundred miles away, but if someone get killed three blocks away from you it's far more real and dangerous than any other crime. Murder is murder and every wasted life is a tragedy and hence we have laws to avoid murder, but still even with murder as a morale question the answer isn't the same anyway, because in some cases the feeling of danger of the possibility of getting killed is much more intensive.
Isn't this anywhere to see? If a CEO is involved in some dubious business which caused many people to lose their job and many of those people have because of this not much to eat on the table, it's a really bad thing and you won't like it, but there is no morale, but when he would go to one of his employees and steal them their lunch so they starve it's something else? Yes, I see how far-stretched this is, therefore will I give you an example from my country what happened a few years ago.
There was one man who wanted to taste human flesh and he dreamt about this a long time. He wasn't a cruel man and he didn't want to kill a innocent human being, but still the desire was there. In the internet he met a man who, god knows why, dreamt about being the lunch of another person. Both person seems ill, huh?
They arranged a meeting, ate something and talked about many things, especially about their desires. They agreed to fulfill something they felt was their destiny. The "human meal" went with the other man to his home and he went into the bath tub, filled with water. Then the other man took a knife and a plate and wanted to give the "victim" something to narcotise him, but he refused, because he wanted to see everything and feel everything. Than the man with the knife removed the crotch of the other man and ate it while he watched the meal. Then the hurt man died as he wanted to die and the hungry man ripped him off and put the bowels in the fridge. The police found out, I believe, after they found a notice from the dead man, where he declared his intention.
You see? Both man wanted to do this, both man were adults and more or less sane if you want. at least no one was seen otherwise from his friends and colleagues. The murder was sentenced in the end (it happened about two weeks ago). What do you think about this incident?
I will talk about drugs and sex and whatever you have talked about later...
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Masaya
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Haha..I don't know if this is off topic or not. But, one of my friends just stopped smoking marijiwana maybe a few weeks ago. And he seemed to smoke it nearly daily. He was kind of a big druggy..into the shrooms and all that aswell. Anyways hes stopping the marijiwana part a few weeks ago. And he told me after he stopped it was the first time he remembered a dream in almost a year...
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Futch
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Morals smorals laws smaws! |
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Disclaimer 1: I don't know how to/like to preach, I just don't make "statements" regarding anything. All I do is merely describe how do I react to such things; make of that whatever you want.
| Quote: |
1) drugz r bad...dunt do them dats why they illegal :D
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I never did drugs, and probably never will. I just don't see any "benefit" from it, and my circle of friends isn't into that kind of thing, so Im not even exposed to drugs. I just don't feel interest in them, too much trouble for having a nice time. There are other (easier) ways in my opinion.
I'm 21, I've been with 15 years old girls (when I was just 18) and I don't feel guilty. I was never in Jail for such a thing, nor did the parents of the girl do something about it (they knew). I didn't force her (heck she asked for it) and to my knowledge, she was ready and doesn't repent of anything. Three years later Im still close friends with her.
Eleven years old girls? Im really not into it, I don't feel attracted by women who don't fit the modern standards of beauty (you know, hot chicks)
| Quote: |
3) alcohol drinking age |
As long as you don't harm anyone else in the process of getting drunk, fine, I don't care. But have in mind that sometimes hurting oneself also includes painful moments to your beloved ones. Just live and let live.
I've never felt attracted to any kind of animal unfortunately (but myself of course)
I guess it depends if the animal is hurt in the process. But to be honest I really don't have an opinion, it's something way too abstract for me to conceive.
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5) Pornography and realted |
I rather do it than watching it. The only kind of porn im familiar with is the "standard" one, you know normal intercourse and such. I can't say I like anything else.
| Quote: |
6)
its not wrong to hack into sites..its fun, lke a game, its like "guess the number" right? |
I wouldn't do it because that doesn't entertain me, and besides I wouldn't like some punk to mess with my site so I'll say no. Just let me be and I'll let you be.
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Tokuro
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| One little thing. Laws are not make for the benefict of people but for the benefict of the state and those who control it. It was always like that and you thing the president or even the mayor gives a f**k to any of us? Perhaps only in the ellections (don't know if I wrote it right) but we are mere numbers (votes). Moral is something that comes from culture and life experience of a person and this is the reason it differs so much. It could look alike but it will never be the same because all of us got different experiences. For me it is wrong if a person wants to harm anyone (himself included) but it is not exactly my business if a guy want to use drugs until have an overdose. But with the globalization problems the childs are losing it former inocence and this is horrible. Not exactly only about sex but what shows in the tv gives a deturpaded materialist view for everthing wich gives the wrong point for relations (hey I am a nice guy remember). |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm wondering if anyone even LOOKED at my post...
Anyway... Eden, that's fucked up.
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Pierrot Le Fou
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I looked at it Yvl, the psychologist was Lawrence Kohlberg.
| Yvl wrote: |
| There are 3 stages of morality, according to some psycholegist guy. Preconventional, conventional, and postconventional. Preconventional thinkers usually do things based on whether or not they will be punished or rewarded. Conventional thinkers do things based on whether its against the law or not. And postconventional thinkers, such as myself, are able to fathom reasoning for each individual law, and make decisions based on what THEY think is right, regardless if it breaks the law or not. Most people never reach this level. |
Source.
| Kohlberg wrote: |
The first level of moral thinking is that generally found at the elementary school level. In the first stage of this level, people behave according to socially acceptable norms because they are told to do so by some authority figure (e.g., parent or teacher). This obedience is compelled by the threat or application of punishment. The second stage of this level is characterized by a view that right behavior means acting in one's own best interests.
The second level of moral thinking is that generally found in society, hence the name "conventional." The first stage of this level (stage 3) is characterized by an attitude which seeks to do what will gain the approval of others. The second stage is one oriented to abiding by the law and responding to the obligations of duty.
The third level of moral thinking is one that Kohlberg felt is not reached by the majority of adults. Its first stage (stage 5) is an understanding of social mutuality and a genuine interest in the welfare of others. The last stage (stage 6) is based on respect for universal principle and the demands of individual conscience. While Kohlberg always believed in the existence of Stage 6 and had some nominees for it, he could never get enough subjects to define it, much less observe their longitudinal movement to it.
Kohlberg believed that individuals could only progress through these stages one stage at a time. That is, they could not "jump" stages. They could not, for example, move from an orientation of selfishness to the law and order stage without passing through the good boy/girl stage. They could only come to a comprehension of a moral rationale one stage above their own. Thus, according to Kohlberg, it was important to present them with moral dilemmas for discussion which would help them to see the reasonableness of a "higher stage" morality and encourage their development in that direction. The last comment refers to Kohlberg's moral discussion approach. He saw this as one of the ways in which moral development can be promoted through formal education. Note that Kohlberg believed, as did Piaget, that most moral development occurs through social interaction. The discussion approach is based on the insight that individuals develop as a result of cognitive conflicts at their current stage. |
I like that part more than the rest, its true we are products of our environment. Honestly, Yvl I don't see what is so special about this philosophy, because everybody I know is a "postconventinal thinker," or a mixture of them all, except maybe children. So you see yourself as one of these people? If you like this philosophy than maybe that helps to know you're one of the higher thinkers.
| Futch wrote: |
| I never did drugs, and probably never will. I just don't see any "benefit" from it, and my circle of friends isn't into that kind of thing, so Im not even exposed to drugs. I just don't feel interest in them, too much trouble for having a nice time. There are other (easier) ways in my opinion. |
Thats good! I never tried to come off as someone who is promoting drug usage, if you can stay away from them you're better off. But you drink don't you? Some people like alcohol, some like marijuana. The only benefit I ever saw in drugs was the way they altered ones perception, while I like to be able to control my wits these days when I was younger it was interesting to be thrown into this new mindset, for better or for worse; the same goes for alcohol, well until its time to vomit, you don't experience anything spiritual there.
| Tokuro wrote: |
| For me it is wrong if a person wants to harm anyone (himself included) but it is not exactly my business if a guy want to use drugs until have an overdose. But with the globalization problems the childs are losing it former inocence and this is horrible. Not exactly only about sex but what shows in the tv gives a deturpaded materialist view for everthing wich gives the wrong point for relations (hey I am a nice guy remember) |
Thats my belief too, I say people should do whatever they want, just as long as their not hurting anyone else. Thats why I'm for keeping the Age of Concent laws exactly how they are, I don't care if one kid and one adult "agree" on partaking in a sexual act. The truth is the kid is going to be hurt, psychologically damaged beyond repair, it doesn't matter if its a month after or 10 years later a kid that young should not be having sex.. especially with some old perverted bastard. Two younger kids fooling around isn't nearly as bad, its really in human nature I'd say. Its really sad, but kids are losing their innocence younger and younger, from television or what not. Pretty soon, maybe 3-4 more generations it'll be rare to find a kid that actually had a childhood.
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Futch
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
I'm wondering if anyone even LOOKED at my post...
Anyway... Eden, that's sauced up. |
I did read this part:
People under 16/18 (13 in Japan) cannot have sex without parental consent.
That was pretty informative, almost made me go to japan. Then I remembered I don't know japanese, and that I don't like 13 year old girls xD (generally)
And if you were talking about the "according to some psycholegist guy" what can I say mate, I don't think that is something very rare/interesting.
EDIT: OOps, missed your post Pierrot. Well Im not in any way judging people who do drugs at least not in a "bad way" I just, never felt like it, what can I say.
And I can't beleive you asked me if I drink alcohol, I felt so.. pure for a second xD To be honest I drink with my mates and so on, but It's been almost 5 years since I puked because of it. I guess I know my limits; I did went as far as not to remember anything that happened the day before, I must admit that.
I've read somewhere that a glass of wine is good for the circulatory system... But there is a long way from a glass to a bottle, or two for that matter xD
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kuwaizair
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| nocturne1337 wrote: |
| huh how enlightening, my dad was a big drug addict in his day and he swears that marijuana caused him to lose interest in his favorite things and he lost his motivation. If he stayed away from it he would have went to stanford in soccor or tot he olympics in swimming |
really? others get much more out of it, parties, friends, good times, epiphanies. smoke some pot, sit back and let the universe tell you its secretes then get inspired to write some heartfelt poetry. also walk in the woods and discover that for 15 minnutes your foot is coverd in angry yellow jackets stinging your foot. wait no that cannot happen..even it it is a pain blocker everything you hear about the plant is propaganda and its only illegal "because the USA dosen't like Mexico" also no one has ever done anything stupid while stoned (my Darwin awards book mentions a guy who died by orca while stoned) and a class mate of mine laughed at how he (while stoned) deleted his late term paper. maybe he was joking because he knew I didn't like drugs and the world of recreational drugs.
sure that drug is more harmless than opium, but it dsoen't mean its fully safe. for fun on another form I'll tell you all I saw somone saying they'd trust somone driving after they were stoned or on hallucigenic mushrooms than if they were drunk. Because you knows, some people do drive and preform better, academicly after smoking a joint or bowl.
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Eden
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1) drugz r bad...dunt do them dats why they illegal |
Hah, drugs... good question. I was mixed up, because I never had a single cigarette, but I once smoked a cigar. The first time I drank more than one beer (or two of the bavarian water they call beer) was one day before my eightennth birthday and now I am going to be twenty next month I can say the times I was ill because of alcohol is countable with less than one hand. Now I am drinking about once a month if it's often, sometimes I drink almost a year not a single drink. When I am drinking it's half and hald Whiskey-Cola, but as I said seldom. I once tried to get drunk for only the purpose of being drunk, but it didn't work, because I can only have a drink when I am with friends. I tried pot the first time after my ninteenth birthday and since then about three times.
I saw and see my father and how he smokes and drinks and it isn't something I wanted to do, but as long as nobody will get hurt by his actions everybody, even my father, can do what make them happy.
The only time I had a younger girl friend was when I was 16 and she became 15 a bit later. Not much of a differenz. My other girl friends were older, one only 3 month and one one and a half year. Was I every thinking about AoC in my personal life? No, I was full of hormones and if a hot thirty year old woman had asked me to show me some secrets I wouldn't have thought twice about it with fourteen, fifteen or sixteen.
Does that show that AoC are useless? No, it only shows that people who are mostly lead by hormones aren't able to make such decisions, so it's the duty of the adults to react like a grown-up. Everybody might be happy to have sex... the older partner, because he can at least use his packet viagra, the young girl, because she is sooo cool and the parents... yeah, the parents may think there is love or something, but I believe with a younger boy it's hormonal and with a younger girl it might be the wish and desire for being loved and feeling security (I excuse for using clichés, but I don't know how girls feel about this). No matter what the younger partner may think, he should wait, because he is certainly not that grown-up as he thinks he or she is. It's the duty of the old person to safe the younger.
| Quote: |
| 3) alcohol drinking age |
Oh, as it seems I answered this question already with the first thing...
Okay, to mix up the two already answered "questions": I believe everybody can do what wanted as long as nobody get harmed.
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| "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." |
- This is something Winston Churchill said... WHy I post it? Because I ever wanted and I don't know much about puppy loving. I know what I feel and think for myself and since I don't hurt any animal, even bees and flies and mosquitos, I can't say anything but I think it's the same as violating a human being, but as often I am probably the only one who thinks this way...
| Quote: |
| 5) Pornography and realted |
I see no wrong in watching porn, even if the person who watches it isn't sixteen or eighteen or twenty-one yet. As long as no-one will be harmed... you remember? I think it's natural, but to avoid misunderstandings: I regard it as okay between peers, but it is a completely different thing from sex with a much older person.
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| 6) its not wrong to hack into sites..its fun, lke a game, its like "guess the number" right? |
I don't know. I am mister stupid at the pc and have no clue about hacking, but as far as I know it's no fun the time a site and therefore the person who owns the site gets harmed.
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Queen
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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As far as drugs go, they're only illegal now because of racism when the laws were made.
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Yvl
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Queen wrote: |
| As far as drugs go, they're only illegal now because of racism when the laws were made. |
Say wha?
How are laws about drugs racist?
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kuwaizair
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
| Queen wrote: |
| As far as drugs go, they're only illegal now because of racism when the laws were made. |
Say wha?
How are laws about drugs racist? |
apparently it had somthing to do with Mexicans and when they started immigrating in numbers and working...somthing about them smoking pot and then somone was all "omg they aren't gonna be prodictuive, just lazy and smoke pot" or so I'm told.
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few runes short of a set of 27
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