Suikoden Utopian and Inspirational Knowledge Objective Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

The True Rune of Time
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Suikoden VI Speculation & Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vertius

The Runic Fletchers


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Post Count: 4747
Location: Ceresfjellet
629970 Potch
1000 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: The True Rune of Time Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's a True Rune I've been desperate to see. Seeing the nature of what the True Runes symbolise, I feel it is safe to assume that there would be one.

It would be great for the story; travelling through time, perhaps to uncover some mystery...

Heehee! It's something I'd love to see.

Would anyone else?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Camus the Noble

Les Renés


Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Post Count: 1881
Location: Vinay Del Zexay
1056014 Potch
224 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it sounds too powerful. The power to control time, if the True Rune extended that far, would likely overshadow all the other True Runes. Also, the story of Creation in the Suikoden world seems to suggest that the True Runes are meant to symbolize elements of the Suikoden world (Rune of Life and Death, the True [insert element here] Runes, Sun Rune, etc.), the Suikoden world's relationships with other worlds (Dragon Rune, Gate Rune), or more abstract concepts (Circle Rune (Order), Rune of Change, Sovereign Rune, etc.). In short, the True Runes largely symbolize the essences of the Suikoden world, which makes sense given that they were created as a result of the battle that probably started the Suikoden world alone (meaning it did not create the other worlds that exist in the Suikoden existence, though I don't think we can be sure on this). Time, however, is more detached from the Suikoden world than the subjects of the other True Runes, as time clearly exists in Yohn's world and, if the Creation myth is taken at face value, existed before the creation of the Suikoden world. Of course, we don't know enough about the True Runes to truly understand their nature, nor do we know if the Creation myth is simply couched in terms of "time" in order to make it more understandable (much like how people often think of "before the Big Bang," even though there was theoretically no such thing as time before the Big Bang).

Also, if there is a True Time Rune, one has to wonder how the Star Dragon Sword transported Tir, Viktor, et al, back in time. Remember, the Star Dragon Sword is the Night Rune. It seems odd that one True Rune would be able to exert such power over another's realm.

Anyway, I would like to see a True Time Rune, but it would raise questions about the nature of the True Runes, as well as lead to considerable overlap between their powers. It would be an interesting addition to the Suikoden series, but would require a bit of 'splainin' on Konami's part.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ryanwh




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Post Count: 68

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Blinking Rune?
Maybe the Blinking rune only effects space, and Viki IS the Rune of time. Or something. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barbarossa Rugner

The Golden Mercenaries


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Post Count: 743

5684336 Potch
15000 Soldiers
650 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes i can see it as a possibility, but i think it might be a bit too powerful as well. The ability to manipulate time is everything. You can change the outcome of war and could possibly cheat death as well. I think that something like this would have to have some definite restrictions for someone to bear it. I would say it is a possibility, but not a probability we will see it in a future suikoden.
_________________

The Rune on my Sword, the Dragon King Sword, is protected against any form of magic, Even the rune of the Gate - Barbarossa Rugner
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Kikito

Order of the Absolute


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Post Count: 5902
Location: Gizaaro Ventego
2953355 Potch
65 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It seems like a good choice for a True Rune like most people have said, though it would be a bit too powerful to be a usable Rune. It could definitely work as some sort of non usable rune, kinda like the Dragon and Gate Runes.

Ahh and just the prospect of that rune just gave me an idea. What if the rune didn't allow time travel, but was more like a keeper of Time. Whoever wields the Rune would have the responsability to keep the rune safe, as it allows for the normal flow of time. In a sense it could be a really powerful Rune since if it was destroyed, the flow of time would be disrupted, bringing about chaos to the universe, and possibly destroying it.

The Rune could be kept by one of the characters in the game, or maybe it could be sealed, and the Tenkai must either protect the person who has it, or the building n which it was sealed. The main antagonist could have the purpose of freeing the world from the control of the True Runes, kinda like Luc did, or just want to send the world into an eternal state of chaos by destroying it, making for a good excuse for us to see more of Yuber and maybe Pesmerga, which would in turn please many fans of these two.


I think that in a situation like this one it could be very probable to see the Rune of Time, though it could just as well work with any other powerful True Rune.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Acheron

Stonewall Brigade


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Post Count: 3951
Location: Mar-Uruk
172597 Potch
200 Soldiers
1325 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think there will ever be a Time Rune. Time doesn't fit as the subject for any other true rune. Yes, it would be too powerful, but that's easily remedied by having that hidden true rune clause where something bad always happens, sun rune insanity, souleater eating friends souls, RoP hurting you, etc. We've seen True Runes that act as reasons to exist (Beginging, Blue Moon, Dragon), we've seen true runes over human emotions (Punishment, Beast), and we've seen true runes over what makes the world go round (Elements, Sun, Night). Time doesn't fit any of these qualifications. It could be argued that it is an element of life, but the difference with time is that it would be an abstract element of life.

It will never be a True Rune. If not for anything more than because, like Camus said, it's far too powerful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
ryanwh




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Post Count: 68

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dunno. The whole Mazus/Crowley paradox would be easier to answer with a Rune of Time involved. They were already insanely powerful, powerful enough to destroy a whole mass of land with the battle that killed them both(which somehow took place before either was born).
If there is a rune of time, it should(and likely would) tie into that story arc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Acheron

Stonewall Brigade


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Post Count: 3951
Location: Mar-Uruk
172597 Potch
200 Soldiers
1325 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Dunno. The whole Mazus/Crowley paradox would be easier to answer with a Rune of Time involved. They were already insanely powerful, powerful enough to destroy a whole mass of land with the battle that killed them both(which somehow took place before either was born).
If there is a rune of time, it should(and likely would) tie into that story arc.

How would it help both of them? If it existed, the True Rune of Time would be one rune and both of them couldn't use it at the same time. This also brings up another comment. There will only be one of a specific True Rune, maintain the balance of having 27 of them. What if the bearer of the True Rune of Time went back in time? He would either lose the rune, create a paradox or cause the world to end. That would be a horrible way to end the series for Konami. I would hate them for doing something like that. "And he went back in time and everything ended. Period"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Xelinis




Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Post Count: 44

2985 Potch
0 Soldiers
21837 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ryanwh wrote:
Dunno. The whole Mazus/Crowley paradox would be easier to answer with a Rune of Time involved. They were already insanely powerful, powerful enough to destroy a whole mass of land with the battle that killed them both(which somehow took place before either was born).
If there is a rune of time, it should(and likely would) tie into that story arc.



Umm...

...reincarnation?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ryanwh




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Post Count: 68

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Far more plausible
*rolls eyes*
That's confabulation by suikoden scribes that lacked imagination and foresight, konami never said anything about reincarnation ever. A time paradox is far more interesting and intrigueing, and plausible in a world of runes. I guess you guys arent seeing it so I'll spell it out for you. There's already a NONE TRUE RUNE that can travel through time, so time travel isnt as big a deal as you're making it. The fight between Mazus and Crowley could be the finalized timeline(ie the timeline everything after that, from the suikoden series, occured) in a game where the original timeline was completely different than what happened in the suikoden games. Get it? An alternate future conflict that concludes in a fight which creates the current future which the games we've already played took place in. Its not that complex.
Acheron-what if pigs fly? I mean, relevence? What if Arshtat destroyed the world with the sun rune? It didnt happen, it doesnt have to happen, so it doesnt matter. Any fo the true runes could end the world in the right hands, you're just jumping to an irrational story scenario for some reason like its the only option with a rune of time. Its not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yvl

Sanctus


Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Post Count: 5979
Location: Senan
55224 Potch
1063 Soldiers
12421 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nah... I think that Viki is just THAT bad at teleporting that she is able to somehow screw herself into different periods...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Acheron

Stonewall Brigade


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Post Count: 3951
Location: Mar-Uruk
172597 Potch
200 Soldiers
1325 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, RyanW, while I admire you for trying to make your idea plausible, it's simply not if it is to be a True Rune. The world exists on the principle that there are 27 True Runes. If the True Time Rune went back in time, there would be two True Time Runes. This would mean that in one world there are 28 True Runes. That violates a principle around which the world is built. It doesn't matter if there are more than one Blinking Rune at one time, evidence of this is in Suikoden 3 where you can buy Blinking Runes. We don't know why Viki teleports through time, but we also must realize that Viki is a practitioner of Teleportation Magic. She's going to be different.

There is many supporters of the reincarnation theory in regard to Mazus and crowley. I don't know what the support is, but that kind of idea just doesn't spawn from nothing. Obviously there is some support of this theory.

As far as we know Mazus, Crowley and Viki are the only ones to defy the laws of time and aging without True Runes. Viki is through teleportation but it's unlikely that she has a True Rune. Mazus and Crowley are just ridiculous, destined to fight to prove who is better. Jeane? She's different. That's what Konami said.

If there were more than one True Time Runes, would it be a True Rune? It's more plausible to be a regular rune, rare, but regular, than a True Rune. There will never be a True Time Rune and if there is, I will leave never play Suikoden ever again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Vertius

The Runic Fletchers


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Post Count: 4747
Location: Ceresfjellet
629970 Potch
1000 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I read everyone's posts, and I have more to add.

Camus the Noble wrote:
I think it sounds too powerful.


I agree. The power which it controls is powerful, no doubt. However, I bring up another Rune that we all know exists.

The Rune of Life and Death. The Rune that can take life. It sounds far too powerful, much like the Time Rune. However, as we know, it's power was restricted. You could take the life of random monsters, but not that of a boss monster. There could be restrictions added to the Time Rune also.

Camus the Noble wrote:
Also, the story of Creation in the Suikoden world seems to suggest that the True Runes are meant to symbolize elements of the Suikoden world


I'd imagine that Time is a factor of the Suikoden World. Time elapses, so it must be.

However, if there was a Time Rune, it'd have to be closely protected, as others have said. Leknaat would probably play a pivotal role in that protection of balance...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
ryanwh




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Post Count: 68

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"There is many supporters of the reincarnation theory in regard to Mazus and crowley. I don't know what the support is, but that kind of idea just doesn't spawn from nothing. Obviously there is some support of this theory."
The idea formed from the timeline, which states Mazus and Crowley faught before their deaths. Here's my thing, though, they each only have ONE birth date. There is no birthdate for the Mazus and Crowley that fight before they're born, which makes me jump to the assumption(at this moment, based on what has been released) that the story arc would be concluded with a time paradox, not reincarnation. I've seen nothing in the Suikoden world that would imply something like reincarnation was plausible. True runes leave their host if they're dieing, how does a true rune of reincarnation split in two, then jump from the two corpses into the body of a two newly born babies? It just seems like, of the two(very convulted) possible explainations for Mazus and Crowley, time travel is the LESS convulted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Acheron

Stonewall Brigade


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Post Count: 3951
Location: Mar-Uruk
172597 Potch
200 Soldiers
1325 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

At the same time, having back up bodies is less convuluted, having identicle twin brothers of equal power and intent is less convuluted, reincarnation is less convuluted. Your defense still doesn't explain how they can both possess the same True Time Rune. One of them might could jump, but both? Do they both have the True Time Rune?

Does time actually exist? Or is it merely the perception of any given sequence of events. To make a True Time Rune Konami would have to define Time in finite parameters. Life and Death have fairly defined limitations. Time? Well with time, now is now then, but the then could be a anything. Think about it, I haven't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Suikoden VI Speculation & Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me