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Why Rina is so good... according to SARS
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I feel like I have to defend myself because of people misunderstanding my post. From the very first of my post, I already stated that I consider Rina to be a useful character but not for the Kite Rune setup. So it was clear that I wasn't arguing about wether Rina is useful or not. But yet, people treated it as if I did.

Fair enough I made mistakes about Double Strike being x2.0 instead of x1.5 (which is what was written in the game) and about the KO'ed character having 1 HP on the next battle. So it was wrong of me to make a mistake like that because SARSadmin doesn't like wrong information being posted without being corrected. I accept that. But if you think about it, SARSadmin himself also made mistakes such as, at first, claiming that Kite Rune setup would lead to Rina dealing 2000 damage instead of 1500 damage to all. It wouldn't be "corrected" had I not made the mistake of saying that it would do 1125 damage. I feel like it's okay for me to be corrected by others, but it's not okay if I'm the one trying to correct things out wether the others were wrong or not. I'm always the bad guy simply for disagreeing with the admin or other members.

And it's very hypocritical to say that the only reason for SARSadmin to post is to "correct" my mistakes because it was very obvious that he went way beyond that by pointing out Killey's weaknesses whereas it was never my intention to compare them as characters, to say that keeping the Kindness Rune trick to be in effect isn't tedious and numerous other things that weren't related to correcting mistakes and instead more related to defending on the Kite Rune setup being useful. I'm not saying that SARSadmin said that there is only one reason for his posts, mind you, but both Kobold and sybillious treated it as if it's the case while in reality, it's not the case at all. So if SARSadmin, in fact, argued back, then why couldn't I argue back as well? We were both defending our own opinions which happened to be different. As simple as that. Both Kobold and sybillious jumped on SARSadmin's defense by misunderstanding my points, making it even complicated for me because I have to correct them as well.

Quote:
bugg, you tend to lean towards argumentation for everything, small or not. sars is making a point, as you stated, but you are making argument.

Is there a rule that says that I am not allowed to make an argument? No, there isn't. I was simply voicing my opinion about the Kite Rune setup's usefulness. It just happened to be different than SARSadmin's opinion.

Quote:
your argument was muddled in that area over the kite rune; otherwise, i wouldn't have pointed that out.

But sybillious, which part isn't clear for you from my post? I've explained it before that I was arguing the usefulness of the Kite Rune setup (again, notice the word "setup"). And you posted as if I thought that SARSadmin said that Rina is the only one who could attach Kite Rune. It was clear that you were the one who misunderstood my post and yet I'm the one who needed to be corrected? I don't get it.

Sorry if I have offended anyone in this thread. I won't post in this thread anymore. I just hope that you all could understand what I meant from the beginning and not treat me as if I was trying to offend you guys.
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Kobold




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The main point i am trying to potray here is that you're arguing for a reason that is completely not what this thread is about.

What you are saying is that even though Rina is this good, it is unnessasary and troublesome to do all of that. But thats not the point of this topic. This topic is to potray how RIna can be an incredibly good character statistically in a correct set up, and not if its needed or nessasary in the game, because Suikoden 2 is a relatively easy game, and no set up is needed at all. It is all for the fun and exploration of it.

Thats what i'm saying. That the whole arguement is pointless. I have no plans or intentions on supoprting SARSadmin's claims whatsoever. So please do not misunderstand what i'm saying... And don't make it sound as though i'm oh so supportive of SARSadmin or whatever, and worst still, make it sound like i'm sucking up to him. That is the LAST thing ever i would want to be seen as. <_<
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sorry that I post here again, but it's not to argue, I swear. LoL.

I just want to point out that according to the bestiary list in Suikosource, the normal monster Bronzem has 1700 HP while Collosus has 1500 HP. So with that fact, it's not possible for Rina with the Kite Rune setup to kill them in one hit. For Collosus, it might be possible (I'm not sure) if the DEF of it isn't taken on the damage calculation. But for Bronzem, it's definitely impossible. I thought that it's better to correct the mistake.

And to Kobold, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intention.
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sybillious

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

defending yourself is one thing, attacking is another; your argument portrays everyone else as wrong and you as right.

you don't have to agree with anyone's claims; this isn't a debate of right or wrong necessarily, but one person's view on what makes character 'x' useful.

watch the sarcasm; no one sucks up to anyone here and to infer this is so is asking for action you may not like.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wait... I'm slightly confused here. Your post above is not targetted at me right? Somehow, it sounds like it mighet be, but yet, i didn't argue, neither did i incoperate any sarcasm...
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sybillious

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

if you feel it applies, so be it; i just want things to stop at 'agree to disagree' and leave it at that. no one should attack another over trivial things; you like character x for whatever reason-that's great, fine, dandy, etc.

i just don't want attacks/borderline or full out flaming simply because one or more people disagree with a poster.

everyone has the right to their opinion; no one has a right to say they're wrong simply because person a's pov doesn't mesh with person b's pov.

let's keep things friendly in the future, ok?
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Gaius Abruscato

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I used Rina a lot, but I focussed on her magic attacks. I never thought of beefing her up that much for physical attacks... but I loved her character! (and her costume, and of course, her magic. ^_^)
She still didn't make it into my final party, cause I determined that I wanted to win with a somewhat weak party, just to be silly. (I had Tuta and Luc in my final party. *laugh* I don't remember who else. but my gosh was it hard.) She was too good for my party.
But I may need to try her out again with a new rune set-up when I play the Japanese version. Thanks for the hint!
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Daniel Blackhand

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The rune combo mentioned is very intriging and deems being looked into next time I play Suikoden II
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It was her upbringing, the struggle, and the shear will that made her out to become so powerful. It is a mystery though, I would like to delve more deeply into her character, how is she so powerful... true rune? Anybody? Anybody? Yes...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I never used Rina in my party too awful much, but I knew she could more than likely be a decent character. I always tend to use physical characters and maybe one magician in my Suikoden parties. I really should experiment more and try to pump up some underrated characters and such. I've never really explored that aspect of the game.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

:lol: i never liked Rina, i think she's kinda annoying :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I do not know what the thing that makes Rina so special, but in Suikoden2 she is the third best magician in my team, I really had good use for her in battle. Actually she was the second one to get level 4 magic early in the game, she also proved to be semi good with inflicting damage with her weapon. In my point of view, she is the reason for the game to continue since she cleared the way for the Hero and Jowy to go to Kyaro, she also aided me in defeating Luca Blight with her high magic status.

There is many times where I used her in battle, since she has two powerful combo attacks, one with Bolgan and Eilie (Circus Attack) which is pretty powerful, and the other one is the (Beauty Attack) combo attack that is very fun to watch.

I know that some people might misjudge her as an no good character, but I do not agree with that because she is the kind of person who do not hesitate to even use her own body for the benefit of others in need for help. This kind of virtue is really respectable and even a noble one not a thing to be ashamed of and a thing that is very hard to do without feeling any kind of humilities, that is why she is my favorite girl I hope that everyone change there minds about her because she really deserve respect. :cry:
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm not trying to start another argument about this, but are you really 100% sure that Rina could deal 1500 damage with that setup, SARSadmin? Because I just got access back to the game and tried to use the exact same setup, and Rina only deals 1030s to high level monsters around L'Renouille while doing 1120s on weaker monsters around Kyaro.

Another question is about Double Strike Rune. You said that it doubles the damage (hence, she could deal 1500 damage), but whenever I tried it, the rune still only gives 1.5 times more damage instead of doubling it. With the Kite Rune setup minus Double Strike Rune, she deals around 720s damage to the monsters around L'Renouille. She would've dealed 500s damage if Double Strike Rune doubles the damage.

Is it possible that you use Japanese version of the game and somehow Double Strike Rune in Japanese version doubles the damage while only 1.5x in US version? That's the only possible answer in my opinion for this case because I've tried adding accessories like Power Rings but they still don't matter at all due to the already max. 999 ATK stat via the Kindness Rune trick.

Any thoughts? Or probably at least other members could just try attach and remove the Double Strike Rune to see wether it gives x2 or x1.5 in your games?
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I'm sure I got that damage, and double strike does x2.0 damage in my version.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah, then I think we could only hope for other members to test out the setup in their games. It'd be strange though to see Double Strike Rune doubling the damage in Japanese version while only giving 1.5x damage in US version because most of the time, it was US version that was being the "easier" version compared to Japanese ones. X_X

Ah well, just wait and see.
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