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War Battles!
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PRAISE BE TO... GROOOWL RAINING BLOOD


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: War Battles! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, so what'd you like to see for SVI War Battles? Here's what I'd like:

- More diversity in the speeches before attacking a unit. The phrases "Put em to rout", "Charge!", and "Get Them!" get really, REALLY stale by your last war battles.

- More types of units. They should give Runes a seperate unit from Archers. And more types of Infantry - Sword, Spear, heavy sword, etc.

- Cavalries. I don't think only horses are available. more types of rinding animals would be great.

- Skills! Cmon, more variety please.

So, what do you guys think?
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Masa

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SV was a step in a good direction, I think. Building on that system would be ideal.

Next time you have an entire city of dwarves join your cause, making them actually fight in war battles would be a nice touch. You could have two beaver units but no dwarf unit... that kinda sucked. I wouldn't mind seeing an actual Kobold, Lizard, or Duck unit too, since we never really had a chance to see what a real one would be like. A Winger unit would be a neat aerial unit too.

An upgrade for the Calvalry, Armored Calvalry, like Teo had would be cool. There was also the Dragon Calvalry... only other thing I could think of would be if you counted Dragon Knights and Mantor Trainers as calvalry.

I'd like to see some more sea units. Apparently Abibzoah was part of the Dunan Navy, I'd like to see a group of Krakens actively take on ships... that'd be awesome. Since cannons are a no go, why not try putting a catapult on a ship? (Hey, it worked for The Wind Waker!)

I'd like to see Runes combined with Calvalry and Infantry and see what neat effects could come out of that. Or instance, casting a "Sword of Rage" on all the soldiers before an attack.

Of course, most of those depend on the region the game takes place in and the availability of particular races, creatures, and terrain.
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ryanwh




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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They should just outright copy dynasty tactics instead of taking bits and peices then injecting crappy features in order to differentiate it. DT2 is a solid system and a series that's discontinued, stop dicking around Konami and just take the whole BS.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i posted some suggestions about war battles on the "general what you want" thread.

Aside from those, i also want some terrain and weather bonuses. Archers have longer range on hills, cavalries not so effective on forests, being bale to use fire and boulders to damage the enemy when the circumstances are right and units having fatigue and morale. All of these ideas I got from the ROTK and Total War games. However, i would like a battle map that is turn based like S2.
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Hibicus

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to see a removal of the "cavalry" unit, actually. Just so we can have mounted archers and whatnot again. Rune and archers should go back to being separate as well.

Overall I was really pleased with V's system, hopefully they don't make IV's fundamentally different, as is the trend. Unlikely it'll be very similar, though.
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Masa

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to see a return to Suikoden 2 in the sense that Calvalry can be an addon ability, allowing for Rune Calvalry and Archer Calvalry, as opposed to being an element in rock-scissors-paper.
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Malt Hitman

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It would be nice if they would work on flanking and tweak the routing system for the battles. You should be able to get bonuses if you could route the enemy units into another unit of yours or manage to get two or even three of your units to hit an enemy unit at the exact same time. It would be a rare occurrence for most players but the benefits of the damage done would make it a good goal if you were looking to minimize your losses and maximize your enemy's. This could also be used to make a few special attack sequences where you see the enemy troops getting caught in a pincer maneuver or attacked by an inverted wedge of troops as well as battle cries specific to the tactical advantage.

On the subject of routing, when a unit is routed time shouldn't be stopped for every other unit on the map. Routing should be accompanied with relinquishing control of that unit for a set time/move limit and if another unit is able to successfully attack the routed unit they should either get a large bonus to attack and defense or simply a free attack as the will of the routed unit is broken. If you're worried about how that would work in a RTS system just give the player the ability to pause the game at any time, that should balance things a bit. If it doesn't it would at least be a good step in right direction.

I agree with the cavalry separation and the ability to have rune units as a separate entity. I'm not sure how much I would use that feature but I can only think that anything that would increase my choices would help to increase my possibilities of victory. As for the unique units I stand by my choice with the same logic. It would also be neat to have a special flying unit and I guess you could categorize it as a rune or cavalry unit under the new system. Obviously it would have to be weak against archers and strong against infantry.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to see where you have a shop owner who sells seige stuff for you and traps you can sabotage with. Like the Sars War, sabotage seems like a cool concept for the game. Let's say I have a unit on the opposition rashly following me down a particular path. As soon as I cross it I, the player, could stop and set the trap that I layed down at the begining of the set-up. A pitfall, an ambush, anything from Star Wars Return of the Jedi, Battle for the Shield Generator (swinging tree trunks). That would add a shop character. Battles may give you bonuses for using good traps and stuff. It would be like the skills of runes and barrage in battle just you can buy these at a pretty penny. I'd be real cool with that.

And if you're mounting an attack against a fort, seige weapons would create new "doors" into the target and you could have to defend a Seige unit that wants your things. It would be a fun aspect on both sides of the table by adding a challenge to the game and at the same time an opputrunity for more depth.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quite honestly, I love the system here, and hope they steal it from us. >.>;;

But really, the war system in Suikoden has never been a large enough part of the game to constitute for all the things you are suggesting. The rear and flank system is always a great feature, though. I would really like to see a game where you could choose whether or not to follow the strategist's advice, or maybe there would be a battle where the strategist wasn't present, and you would have to figure out your own strategy, doing the same kinds of things that they could do - the ambushes in S2, the feints in S1, the, um, umm... ummmmmm.......

What the hell DID Caesar do anyway?!
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dark-knight

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

^i agree on the part where you can choose to disobey your strategist (if the hero of s6 is the leader of the army, then he/she should decide what to do) or come up with your own strategy that you can use against enemy armies. that way, the game can be personalized (specifically the war battles) as to what the player wants to happen to his/her war battles.

and another thing, i do hope they dont change the war system from s5. maybe they can improve on it but please konami, no more failed innovations (at least not on this one) for your launch suikoden title for the next gen.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What would be the point of having a strategist if you're not going to follow the advice given? I guess it would give the player a greater sense of satisfaction if you were allowed to plan and execute your war battles but I doubt the strategist would be completely ignorable. So far, I guess all of the Tenkai have been pretty green when it comes to the battlefield so the strategist is there to show them the ropes. It would be nice if, as the story progresses, the Tenkai got a larger hand in the planning and the last few battles would be completely under your control.

A second option would be to have one of several strategies developed for each battle and then you would be able to choose which one you liked the best or the one that help further the way you shape your army. You would still maintain the strategist and would have more control over your troops. It could also help in replay if you gain a certain reputation depending on how you choose to approach the battles. If you go head on into each battle you may gain a reputation as a fierce but not overly bright warrior where as maneuvering and ganging up on the enemy may net you a sneaky but weak reputation.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

What the hell DID Caesar do anyway?!

He lit poop on fire, that's what! What I want to know is exactley what Elanor did besides tell you that you need allies before starting a war with a strong nation. Duh! Lucretia was a very good strategist but she did virutally everything in the war which left little to be done by player besides chose which theater to watch.

It would be neat to have several strategists on your side that you can choose how to do battle. I was kind of getting to that from what I posted earlier but yall wordified it better. Giving the player more control over strategy would be a plus for war battles, I'd say.
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dark-knight

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

What would be the point of having a strategist if you're not going to follow the advice given?

having a strategist on one's side does not necessarily mean that you need to follow his/her commands. as i said, the player can choose on whether or not to follow those instructions as to what they want. several strategist (maybe 2-3 may also work just fine)

and i agree with the reputation thingy. hey maybe being 'fierce' on battle may somehow affect the morale of your own army. maybe boosting the soldiers' morale for example. while being a sneaky type of leader may shake the mentality of the enemy troops because of them getting paranoid about hidden traps and secret maneuvers.
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to see catapults used. Suikoden V did have a really good battle system, but it was basically a combination of everything we've already seen. I'd like to see something different with more "medieval" weaponry. Suikoden is placed in a somewhat Medieval timeperiod anyway.

I'd like to see some more of the actual character's skills that are used in regular battles used in war battles. For instance, I'd like to see some tank characters in war battle not to be damaged too much, so on and so forth.

Also, I'd like to see some unites used in regular battle on the battlefield. For instance, if a unite attacks only one enemy, on the battlefield, that would be the lead general of that unit. If the unite attacks all enemies, it would attack all enemies in one unit. Got it? Good.

We know that Konami will keep using the "rock-paper-scissors" method of battle, but they should spice it up with more types of units that use different weapons. For instance, archers could attack a boat or whatever, but archers with FLAMING arrows would affect the boat more. One more idea I'd like to see is being able to attack buildings and other objects, not just the units of soldiers. That could be a whole mission in itself.
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I'll throw in another vote for the siege idea. It would add an interesting element to the war system and tier the structure as well. I'd assume that first you'd have to beat the enemy on the field to provide a buffer for your siege equipment. Then you'd have to roll out your siege equipment and take down the enemy fortifications and finally storm the stronghold. That would make for some good battles and some very memorable ending conflicts.

I know that Suikoden V had something along those lines so the developers have already included something along the lines of siege craft but not in the way that we usually think about it. That would give the weapons another, possibly better, use. Deploy them against the enemy troops to inspire terror and sow confusion. How will their morale hold up when that giant rock crushes their leader? :mrgreen:

Excellent idea in linking the unique attacks into the battle system Dezrassa. If you'd start piling on the unique attacks into the battle system it would open up benefits to using certain stars that would otherwise sit on the sidelines in a battle because their default abilities just aren't your taste. It would also be nice to expand the two slot limit on specials though to three or even four. If the unique attacks were used they'd take up a slot or two depending on if the attacks were listed separately or just as a bulk "unique attack" special.

The multiple strategist idea is a great one. It would give the player more control and would allow for plot twists and other fun stuff. The idea of one of your strategists defecting to the enemy side and taking the bulk of the plans along and the rush to come up with unique and unorthodox counters to your previous strategies would be a great event. It would be great even without the backstabbing and skullduggery that stuff would just make it more fun.
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