Suikoden Uncanny and Informational Knowledge Omniscient Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

Sun rune and justice?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Backstory, History & Plot Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rune hunter




Joined: 02 May 2006
Post Count: 461
Location: Tenzan Pass
236548 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Sun rune and justice? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was wondering is there any conection between the sun rune and justice? Arshtat keep spurting nonsense that they have "absolute justice" on her sided. Same thing with Godwin saying something along those lines
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rocky

Harmonian Paramilitary Spearmen Corps


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Post Count: 299
Location: The Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'll try to avoid SPOILERS but looks like there will be some anyway. Go away if you don't like them =P

...

...

The Sun Rune obviously has a very strong sense of justice and authority. It appears to be devoted to justice, retribution, and deterrence, with little sympathy for those who oppose it in any form. This can be seen in the Lordlake scene as well as the scene in the castle with Ferid/Arshtat. As well, the Sun Rune seems to attach itself to the bearer over time (Queen of Falena) and eventually begins to not realize the seperation of the two entities, fusing into one.

Anyway, the justice element is just a characteristic of the Sun Rune. We can see throughout Suikoden that true runes have a tendency to have minds of their own, and I believe this is evident as the Sun Rune takes over Arshtat when she talks about 'divine vengence' and such.
_________________
Templar
Defending Gladitorial Combat Champion (2x)
Tenmou Star of Harmonia's Tablet of Promise

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Urn

Azure Flames


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Post Count: 2590
Location: Mido Shallows
7756 Potch
0 Soldiers
970973 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wouldn't confuse Queen Arshtat's love of order and authority for the Sun Rune's idea of justice. Just remember that the insanity brought on by the Sun Rune is due to the weakness of the bearer and their ability to cope with such power. The Sun Rune has no need for justice or authority, but a ruler such as the Queen does. Power can do very strange things to you especially if you are chosen to bear an endless source of it.
_________________
~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
malicesoul




Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Post Count: 168

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, but its been mentioned that the True Runes do have minds of their own. I'm not sure, but I think its mentioned by Luc in SIII that True Runes kinda become fused with your soul if you have them long enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Urn

Azure Flames


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Post Count: 2590
Location: Mido Shallows
7756 Potch
0 Soldiers
970973 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, doubt that they have "minds" of their own, but not in the way that many perceive it in my humble opinion. I believe they react on what is inherent to their nature. It is not concerned with the state of a country. The embody an aspect of the very existence of the world in its entirety so what could the affairs of a single nation have to offer for a sentient life form that will expand on through all eternity. Just think of them as gods that purpose is to be the platform for the very existence that reality depends on.

Luc's soul interwined with the True Wind Rune due to an incomplete cloning process meant to imprison the True Wind Rune. He was a flawed container. The True Wind Rune did not fuse with Luc by choice.

Bearers of True Runes are chosen in order to fulfill a inherent need of that particular True Rune. To fulfill a natural urge of that particular True Rune. The Sun is too much for a mere mortal to bear with power complete and absolute. A mere mortal would naturally be corrupted with the ability to harness such a power. So, it's not the Sun Rune that brings on insanity, but the weakness of the mortal heart. The corruption of absolute power.

True Runes simply do what is in their nature. This is evident in all True Runes we have seen. Manipulation, vengeance, greed and anger are mortal qualities unbefitting of gods. Although, I find it interesting that there is one True Rune that seems to have been corrupted and displays mortal qualities..the enigmatic Night Rune.
_________________
~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rocky

Harmonian Paramilitary Spearmen Corps


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Post Count: 299
Location: The Holy Kingdom of Harmonia
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are you sure, Urn? There's little reason for the Sword and Shield to have fought in the beginning, if you look at the origin of the Suikoworld and the other True Runes. That to me symoblizes that runes are more than capable of having 'mortal qualities'. Otherwise, two true runes would not feel the urge to try to overcome one another - that competative nature is probably one of humanity's most prominent. It's... greedy, even.
_________________
Templar
Defending Gladitorial Combat Champion (2x)
Tenmou Star of Harmonia's Tablet of Promise

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Linnaeus

Meow Mages


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Post Count: 380
Location: Qella Sarpara
167580 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the creators added the whole "justice" deal, because in Zoroastrian Mythology, Arshetat (or Arshtat) is the Angel of Wealth and Justice. That is where the name came from, so the creators or translators probably added the "justice" lines to match her name's origin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bright Shield Rune bearer

:)


Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Post Count: 236
Location: Ceresfjellet
5591 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That could be true. I was just thinking about symbolism of Sun rune. Only thing that crosess my mind is justice in every single way. Adding up all the aspects of 'justice' nature. Arogance, madness, righteousness... etc. You get the picture. Both sides of juctice, right and wrong.

Looking at Sun Rune's nature it's quite obvious that it has a lot in common with justice ... even Arshtat, giving herself right to judge over something .
_________________
Forgiver's Sign
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
NervEtrenank




Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Post Count: 3

0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Spoilers.


Just assumptions...

I thought the game hinted that the Sun Rune's inbalanced "mental/emotional" state was caused by it's split from the Night Rune. Thus, while I do think it represents Justice and Loyalty, any sign of disloyalty is reacted towards extremely negatively. When the the Godwins betray Arshtat, it unveils this feeling of Betrayal that the Sun Rune might harbor towards the Night Rune, causing it to drive the rune owner "mad." I also doubt it's a state of madness and more of a possession by the Rune as Arshtat's reactions after the incidents show. This same sort of rebellion/betrayal is what led to the Lordlake incident, and I would guess a similar betrayal/overthrow is what caused the Armes Kingdom to be destroyed by it's King/Sun Rune.

The Dawn and Dusk Runes born from that split kind of act as a "chill pill" whenever the Sun Rune gets into those states; although, one is missing at the time Arshtat uses it and neither was owned by the Ancient Armes Kingdom?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Urn

Azure Flames


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Post Count: 2590
Location: Mido Shallows
7756 Potch
0 Soldiers
970973 Nation Points

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, to answer your question, I would say if you believe the "Creation Story" to not just be some tale or myth explaining the unexplainable (for a lack of other words) and actual concrete evidence, then yeah they could have mortal qualities. But, I for one, simply believe it is a myth. The Rune of Beginning essentially was never meant to be whole. If it was then there would be no room for anything to start or end, there would just be nothing. That's why it's natural state is separated into the Bright Shield and Black Sword. It's just like there could be no light without dark, there could be no beginning without an end.

So, simply put, it is in the Sun Rune's nature to be able to scorch the land and then be able to rejuvenate it. The Sun can burn when you get too close, but it is also the source of warmth and light that everything needs to survive. So, it is not acting outside of its nature when it causes destruction or when it revitalizes life. Madness is a mortal quality driven on by greed, mental instability, and various other insecurities. What purpose would it serve the Sun Rune to drive the bearer mad, power does that all by itself. The Queen thought she was a goddess and her word was complete and incapable of being unjust. She saw herself as justice and the power she held was too much for her to bear. Nothing but simple mortal weakness.

As for the Night Rune severing itself from the Sun Rune. I believe that to be a simple myth as well explaining how Light and Darkness began to oppose one another. Twilight and Dusk are simply those periods in between Sun and Night. They all go hand in hand. The myth tries just makes them seem more "humanlike". The Stars are naturally associated with the Night, so it is natural that it would be equated to the Night Rune. Sun, Dusk, Twilight, Star, Night..they all are apart of a cycle inherent to the natural order of things.
_________________
~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WolfGang Knight

The Black Dart


Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Post Count: 6
Location: Nameless Lands
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rocky wrote:
Are you sure, Urn? There's little reason for the Sword and Shield to have fought in the beginning, if you look at the origin of the Suikoworld and the other True Runes. That to me symoblizes that runes are more than capable of having 'mortal qualities'. Otherwise, two true runes would not feel the urge to try to overcome one another - that competative nature is probably one of humanity's most prominent. It's... greedy, even.


I disagree, the Sword and Shield that created the world were not runes. The Sword and Shield runes are just the Rune of Beginning split in two pieces. They are not the emdodiment of the two brothers because they were the ones who created the runes in the first place.
_________________
Death comes to all. Good and evil. Rich and poor. Young and old. The ultimate equilizer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Backstory, History & Plot Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me