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Editorial: Analysis of Wars in the Grassland
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Editorial: Analysis of Wars in the Grassland Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Article URL--
http://www.suikox.com/ed/grasslands40422.html

Please discuss the article here. I am interested in feedback, especially regarding the following points--

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into historical/geographical elements of Suikoden?

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

3. Did the article change your perception of Grassland history? Why/why not?
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Solitude

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I myself always like to see articles regarding history about areas or background on characters. That said I would definately like to see more articles likes this one. I liked how you showed all the different wars that the Grasslands were in over a set period of time and explained what happened in each of them. I always thought that Grassland was just in the way of all these other nations. They all want more teritory and they just go into Grassland and take it. After reading your article I would say that my view hasn't changed much because you did say something along those lines.

However if Grassland didn't exist and all those nathions were cramed right up next to each other there would probably never be any time of peace. Everyone would be fighting with at least one other nation. So in that respect the Grasslands act sort of like a buffer for all the other nations and they just have to take the heat of it all.
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Angelus Silverberg




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree, id love to see articles on like every war, battle, strategy, character in a certain event. Like each battle in the Dunan Unification war, somethin like that.
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KoRnholio




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm surprised I didn't see this article until now. Thanks for bumping it up :)

One observation, about the Tinto/Grassland War. While it may be unknown how it ended, it could be noted that there seems to be no bad blood between the countries during the events of Suikoden III, ten years later. Even Sergeant Joe, who more than likely participated in the Tinto/Grassland War against the Tinto....(-ites? -ans? -guys?), doesn't seem to hold any hostility towards Lilly, Reed, and Samus. Hugo probably was too young to even know they had a war, as well as Lilly. Reed and Samus should be old enough but don't seem to have any hostility either, although you wouldn't expect Tinto to because they started the war purely for territory. But Sergeant Joe and even the Lizard Clan, where the player brings Lilly, Reed, and Samus, don't seem to harbor any resentment.

Small nitpick: You say the Zexen/Tinto war was 5 years after the Second Fire Bringer War in the description, but say three years in other places. Which is it?

And a question: What side would the Grasslands have been on the the Zexen/Tinto war?
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Solitude

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that the Grasslands would probably be on the side of Zexen in the Zexen/Tinto War. This is just a speculation of mine but because the war started 3/5 years after the Second Fire Bringer War (ie S3) Zexen and Grassland would be on good terms.

However on the other hand I would also think that the Grasslands would be torn seeming Hugo was such good friend with Lilly, Semus, and Read. The Karaya Clan itself may have chosen to stay nuetral in the hole thing and could possibly have worked to end the war in a peaceful manner.

I do not know how all the other clans of Grassland fealt about Tinto though. They may feel hostility towards them due to the Tinto/Grassland war and may fight along side Zexen.

Thats my thought on the matter.
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Angelus Silverberg




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

^ i agree. They united together as the Fire Bringer. But still even Tinto joined the fire bringer, so i dont know.
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Solitude

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Angelus Silverberg wrote:
^ i agree. They united together as the Fire Bringer. But still even Tinto joined the fire bringer, so i dont know.
True, True.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into historical/geographical elements of Suikoden?

Any and all information is much appreciatted.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

Actually I did have an opinion about the article, instead of my cop-out in my last reply for Editorial: A Case for Salome Haras(your opinion is your opni... blah blah blah wonk shmak). I thought the article stuck to the facts very well, if a little vague towards the end. I'm still not sure of the exact effect commerce has on history(possibly[probably] I'm just dense this morning), for there was no clear summary about it at the end. So I guess all I'm saying is, summaries help me sum it up(or.. err.. something).

3. Did the article change your perception of Grassland history? Why/why not?

Yeah, because I knew very little about the Grassland history going in to the article(my own lack of studying outside of playing S3).
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Lunarblade

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I love this stuff. Political/geographical information has always interested me, and the Suikoden series is rich with intrigue and conflict. PLEASE PLEASE do more. They are incredible. (Now if only there was a purely strategy Suikoden game...)

Anyway, this hepled me get the bigger picture of the history of Grassland.

In a way, I think of Grassland as Poland (yeah yeah, I know....). It's a large, sparsely populated area that is surrounded by 3 expansionist countries (in history it was Prussia, Austria, and Russia...in Suikoden it's Zexen, Harmonia, and Tinto). Unfortunately, I would think this doesn't bode well for the future of the Grasslands because it's inevitable that they'll be conquered, simply because of their placement, value, and lack of sophisticated technology and unity.
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mergle




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Interesting. Good point about commerce.

Only trouble is, what war did Wyatt used as the cover for his disappearance? The (english translation of) the manga puts his "death" at 17 years before the game starts, in a war with the grasslands. That would be IS 458, and you don't have any such war listed on your timeline. So what war did Wyatt disappear in?
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KoRnholio




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The manga isn't fact. They took liberties with some facts to make it more dramatic.

However, if that particular tidbit is true, the Grasslands and Zexen have been at war a lot in various degrees, for a long time. There were probably various skirmishes going on about that time.
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mergle




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

KoRnholio wrote:
The manga isn't fact. They took liberties with some facts to make it more dramatic.

However, if that particular tidbit is true, the Grasslands and Zexen have been at war a lot in various degrees, for a long time. There were probably various skirmishes going on about that time.


My understanding was that except where they directly contradict game-fact, the manga and novels are all considered canon and equivalent to an individual "play-through" of the corresponding game. Curse you, Konami, for so much backpedling!

But I'd gotten the impression from the game that Wyatt was believed to have died in a fight with Grasslanders. So maybe not a full-fledged war, but yeah, lots of little skirmishes...


Edit: Okay, given that the meeting of Hugo and Fubar in the manga is directly contradictory to what they say it was in the Shinso, I fully retract my previous argument.

However..... According to info from Shinsho Vol. XIII posted on Harmonia Online: "In IS 465 a war broke out between the Grasslanders and Zexens over an area owned by the Zexen Federation." Vol. XII says "While the Grasslands were engaged in battle against the Zexen Federation, Sgt. Joe received word that his eldest child was ill."

So unless Genso somehow mistranslated Tinto as Zexen twice, or the maintainers of HO misposted it, or Konami backpedaled again... the editorial is incorrectly minimizing the extent of Zexen-Grasslands hostilities.
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Starslasher

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARSAdmin, your article on the Grasslands was pretty interesting. But i do have one question.

What about Camaro's involvement with the other battles? Camaro is part of the Grasslands, aren't they? Or are they parrt of the Nameless Lands? Well, you know what i mean. It borders the Grasslands just as Tinto does, yet it was ony involved with the Second Fire Bringer War. Surely, a knighthood was installed there for some martial reason, wouldn't you say?

Here's my answers to your questions:

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into historical/geographical elements of Suikoden?

Oh yes. Especially if you can do one on the Southlands. Go Kasim! Go Shin! Go Wakaba! Go Long Chan Chan! Oh, and also on Falena please.



2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

I really liked the map image. I have a better idea on how Tinto looks now ^_^. There wasn't anything that i disliked in it.



3. Did the article change your perception of Grassland history? Why/why not?

It did change my view on the history of the Grasslands. I read about Tinto havig conflicts with the Grasslanders, but i never thought that there was an official war between them! I wondered why this wasn't shown in Suikoden III?
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Cedric

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into historical/geographical elements of Suikoden?

Yes, in fact, you can't have enough of them. One of the strengths of Suikoden is the story that lossely connects them all. It is the same world in all the games. Since this is so, it's important to know the past and the history associated with it. A Suikoden fan would eat this type of information up in a heartbeat.


2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

I always like to see references between previous groups, countries, etc. Every fan would like to know the events after or before the plotlines of he fames. There's plenty of references to keep people satisfied. The only thing I dislike is the uncertainty of when the territories expanded, but that can't be helped since there was no official information. All the same, it's a very good estimation.

3. Did the article change your perception of Grassland history? Why/why not?

Yes and no. I always knew it had a rich history, so I wasn't surprised by that. However, I learned many new things about that 4th Grassland War. I found the article very informative.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sorry if this was asked previously, but isn't Vinay del Zexay a very young city? Roughly fifty years or so old? I sort of figured that it was built during the end of the First Fire Bringer War. But the editorial suggests that it was the Zexens who could be responsible for the Grasslanders even surviving this war. I was unaware that they existed in that time frame as independent from the Grasslands, and I was -very- unaware that they helped the Grasslands in any way. Can you clarify this...?
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