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Editorial: True Runes and Tarot
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 11:06 pm    Post subject: Editorial: True Runes and Tarot Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Article URL--
http://www.suikox.com/ed/runes40329.html

Please discuss the article here. I am interested in feedback, especially regarding the following points--

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into the mysteries of Suikoden?

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

3. Did the article change your perception of Suikoden symbolism? Why/why not?
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Shabadoo




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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Yes, I'm always up for reading theories on various mystries of the Suikoden universe.

2. In a whole I thought it was great, the only thing it could of used (in my opinion) was an explenation of the tarot cards and what exact properties each of them holds.

3. It definetly gave me a new angel on the true runes and possible other true runes that may exist.
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. I think it was indeed educated to the fact that it told us and revealed to us some of Suikodens secrets. Though there probably will be a sun rune, all signs point to it, and who knows.

2. I liked how it gave us the information on Tarot, the told us how they match up, very well done (Golf clap).

3. Yes, it made me think that there indeed is a link to Tarot in Suikoden, and with that, much more may fall into mind, but who knows.

On a side note, the Howling Voice guild having a true rune kind of maks sense, as Richmond said, "All guns are said have a soul.. pehaps it has a true rune." It would make sense that the very first Gun was made from the true rune, and all were duplicated from it, such as Storm was one of the frst to be duplicated, and so it has the most "soul" out of all.

And that would mean that the council would hold the true rune gun, and only true Guild masters would get it, Kelly wasn't worthy so it was kept a secret from him. That would mean that maybe in Suioden IV, we might see the forging of the first gun, the formation of the guild, and all that followed. Just a thought though.
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into the mysteries of Suikoden?

Of course. The only thing more interesting than a mystery is the attempt to solve one.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

I liked how many of the true runes do indeed have a strikingly, odd resemblence to the Tarot cards. Perhaps we are actually looking into Suikoden's future here.

3. Did the article change your perception of Suikoden symbolism? Why/why not?

Yes it did. I've always thought that there was a certain pattern to the runes. After readin the article, this may come close to the actual true rune listing.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm... very interesting. I do wonder though, what about the other 5 True Runes out of the 27 True Runes. The best guess anyone could give would probably be that these are the Elemental Runes (being, Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning and Earth).

There's one question. What about the halves of the True Runes? That is, what about the Front Gate Rune, Back Gate Rune, Black Sword Rune and Bright Shield Rune? Couldn't each of them be a True Rune by itself, instead of the Rune of the Beginning and Gate Rune?

If there were, maybe The Judgement card is reperesented by the Bright Shield Rune, Justice by the [color=red]Black Sword Rune.

Then The World card is represented by the Back Gate Rune and the Magician by the Front Gate Rune. i most likely wrong with this assumption.

All right, now to answer your questions:

1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into the mysteries of Suikoden?

Hmm...i'm not sure. this relation of the True Runes and the Tarot cards was intruiging once i began to read it. so, okay. Bring it on!



2. What did you like/dislike about the article?
It made some very good guesses. But again, it did not seem 95+% sure. But it couldn't be helped, i suppose.




3. Did the article change your perception of Suikoden symbolism? Why/why not?

Yes, i would think that it did make me think more differently on the True Runes. It would make me guess more on what the future True Runes would look like! If there are more Suikoden sequels, godwilling!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, from all the information we've been given about the True Runes, the Rune of Beginning and the Gate Rune are supposed to be one rune.

So if your theory about each half of those runes being assigned to a different Tarot card is true, that would throw the numerical matching way off, and there would be two non-elemental True Runes that couldn't be matched to a Tarot card(unless they made up two new elements). That would make the neat Tarot Card theory very lopsided.
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Stormbringer

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Isn't the Temperance card supposed to be more about 'harmony'?

Anywho, looking at the cards the Magician could possibly be a rune giving complete knowledge and the abililty to see the future, and the Empress is supposed to be very nurturing/fertility and it's also -kind of- opposite the Emporer card so maybe it would have something to do with 'nurturing' the runes. Of course those are just theories that I'm throwing around in my head.

1. Yes, the Suikoden universe is very mysterious and I'm kind of obsessive with figuring out story lines and other mysterious stuffs

2. The article was cool and brought up some interesting thoughts for the people living in my head to ponder :wink:

3. Not really, because the Suikoden universe is very symbolic and well, I'll just stop there.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well I came up with a possible subject to the Magician Tarot Rune, Crowley and let me explain. Magician does fit Crowley by obvious reasons, but I did not come up with this because of just that. A nother meaning for magician besides a magic user, is a master of a certain art. So the Magician Card would be equal to a rune called Masters Rune. But wait why does this make Crowley a candiate for this rune? Because a Master does not always mean the owner of something, but and expert in something. Now who in the game do we know that is an expert at something. Well Muto is an expert at losing items, but not quite what we need. Viki is the an expert of being kind of ditzy, but still not quite. Pahn is an expert in vampire hunting, ah we are getting close, but we already have two True Runes that revolve around vampires. Estella claims to be an expert in magic, but also is an expert in pulling legs. Mazus is quite the expert in magic, but wait, isn't there someone better. Ah, yes Crowley is an expert in magic, it even states this in an Old Book in Suikoden 1. All evidence of this Mystery Rune points to Crowley. But the symbolic nature of the opposing elements in the rune may disagree but we don't know any thing about it so this guess of
Magician Card=Master Rune=Crowley is as good as yours.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Except for the fact that Crowley doesn't have a true rune. He has 100 runes embedded on his body so that he could try to obtain the level of power of a true rune without actually having one. He is still definitely a master of magic though, if not THE master in the Suikoden world.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm....interesting theory, Seakida. A True Rune about the mastery of a certain art, not neccessarily magic. Not bad.

But i'm a bit more convinced that the True Rune that would represent the Magician Tarot Card is related to magic in general. A Magician would be one of great knowledge, not only one who is a master of a certain art. So perhaps this Mystery Rune may be a strategist or generally a non-fighting character, like Joshua. As you insisted, it does not neccessarily have to be a magician. It could be someone like Alex, or one of those Chisu stars.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Editorial: True Runes and Tarot Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARSadmin wrote:
1. Do you like to see more articles that delve into the mysteries of Suikoden?


Yay, great fun. As long as they're presented in a professional and organized manner.

Quote:
2. What did you like/dislike about the article?


I didn't like the presentation (sorry >_>). Your 'voice' in it is just not confident enough for me to take you seriously. I'm not saying you have to necessarily believe what you're saying, since it IS speculation, but I just like ideas that are thrown out with more 'oomph,' I suppose.

Some of the speculation seems to cheesy to me, too. For instance, the 'fate' rune idea... it just doesn't fly with me. I don't think I'd easily (or at least want to) believe that someone could hold so much power (since fate is a pretty serious topic); wouldn't fate be impossible to defeat? I'd hope that the True Runes, while different, are at least somewhat similar in 'strength.' I hope that made sense.

Quote:
3. Did the article change your perception of Suikoden symbolism? Why/why not?


Symbolism? No, I'm still rather dubious. I can't see some of the cards being translated into rune power (lovers? HAHAHAno), although it is an interesting idea.

Yeah, that's about it. Gj.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Starslasher wrote:
Hmm....interesting theory, Seakida. A True Rune about the mastery of a certain art, not neccessarily magic. Not bad.

But i'm a bit more convinced that the True Rune that would represent the Magician Tarot Card is related to magic in general. A Magician would be one of great knowledge, not only one who is a master of a certain art. So perhaps this Mystery Rune may be a strategist or generally a non-fighting character, like Joshua. As you insisted, it does not neccessarily have to be a magician. It could be someone like Alex, or one of those Chisu stars.


Well I came back to thinking about this, maybe Julian Silverberg carries the "Master Rune". I mean I did say that it isn't neccessarily magic this rune revolves around. It would explain (in a short way) the connection between the Silverbergs and Yuber, being maybe Julian and Yuber are well aquainted and decided to help each other out (Yuber helps the Silverberg family, and Julian will give Pesmerga false leads). But thats just one speculation I have.

My next speculation is the High Priestess Tarot Card Rune, or as SARS called the "Saint Rune". The fact that being the card High Priestess should bring the term Chastity to mind, but we don't know anybody that is Chased? But the True Runes act on opposite human elements, such as Cruelty and Compassion, or in this case Chastity and Adultery. Well which characters do we know that can be considered an "Adultress"?
Well Rina is one that comes to mind, but I doubt she weilds this Rune. Umm, she was the only one? Not quite, there is Jeane, she looked very much like an "Adultress" but it is not stated that she is, so for all we know she might just be our Chastity/Adultery person the Rune picks to "control". I know that it si confirmed that she doesn't weild a True Rune, but what if Konami is saving that secret till a later time, much like the Yuber/Pesmerga settlement, and keep in mind this is just a speculation.
High Priestess Card=Saint Rune=Jeane
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Roundier Haia would be another candidate for the Magician Tarot Rune, but enough about that. Let's move onto another rune, the Temperance.
Now a synonym for Temperance is Sacrifice. Now I know that in my signature I have mentioned a "Rune of Sacrifice". But I had made that pretend rune before my recent research of these Tarot Runes. Now Sacrifice can be broken into two differnent elements of humanity; they would be Honor and Damnation. Just hearing these two human elements make it sound like a likely "True Rune", and it also sounds like it could be used as a main characters rune.

But having Damnation as a human element sounds more like what would fit the Punishment Rune, or the Hanged Man. So another synonym for Sacrifice is Charity, so why not Charity and Malcie (or the ill-will to harm someone). With Malice being the element to over come. Much like like the Sovereign' "To Rule, or be Ruled." I think that would be the opposing elements for it.

Well what to you think of my speculations, are they any good, or just a waste of time.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was replaying Suikoden 3, and then I started on Thomas. Using Piccolo and his mallet rune put in my head "Expansion". The Sun expands and it also shrinks, so these could be our contradicting elements Growth and Recession, which of course are human elements. We all Grow up, and then we will Recess until we die. So it would be much alike the Rune of Life and Death, but the inbetweeness of it. Maybe the weilder could stop someone from ageing, or speed the process up faster.
I won't even bother guessing who would likely weild this Rune because this is most likely one of those Runes that the Hero gets to weild.
I was also wondering, what Humanistic Elements would the Dragon Rune be?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sorry if i'm late in adding to this. But i just read many theories of Viki lately and someone brought up that if she does have a True Rune, It's one that would bring her extremely good luck and possibly go to places and actually change their fate. She might be hanging on loose thread of fate. Which means that it might be possible, if Viki does have a True Rune, is it's the one with the embodiment of the "Wheel of Fortune".

It's just a speculation, but i think it fits her a lot.... :roll:
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