Suikoden Urgent and Irenic Karma Ontic Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

Discussion between Shu and Leon
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Gameplay Questions & Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dew Dust




Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Post Count: 4814

2127634 Potch
200 Soldiers
104 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Discussion between Shu and Leon Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have read somewhere that the discussion that took place between Shu and Leon during the fire scene in Suikoden II was actually a mis-translation. Does anyone here have the actual translation of the entire scene or know where I can get one? Thanks!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Stampede

The One-Eyed Jacks


Joined: 29 May 2004
Post Count: 156
Location: Furillo, Lyran Commonwealth
30154 Potch
11 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do you need the translation word-for-word? I know the rough jist of it, at least.

Shu basically says that he can't beat Leon normally, so he has to risk his own life to do it.

In other words, I can't be smarter than you, so I will be dumber than you!
_________________
Continue to push until it has given, by the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dew Dust




Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Post Count: 4814

2127634 Potch
200 Soldiers
104 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks Stampede for the help! I am curious of the discussion word-for-word. There are some things I wanted to check out, but if I can't get my hands on it, it's okay. Thanks again ^^
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Vextor




Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Post Count: 12081
Location: Hell
11324811 Potch
23689 Soldiers
160 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can't give you a word-for-word translation, because it seems I have lost my Japanese Suikoden 2 disk (either that or its hidden somewhere). However, I've read that portion many times, so I should be able to tell you what you're trying to check out.

The basic jist of it is that Leon criticzes Shu for risking his life. Shu says that this was the only way he can ensure that he can kill Leon. Leon replies, saying that he is stupid for attempting such a thing. Shu then replies that because Leon would see through all of his strategies, he had to rely on luck, and that people taught him there's something more important in life, etc. Leon calls Shu a fool for not seeing the "bigger pictire." Shu lashes out, saying that he doesnt' want to "guide history."

Then, a tree burns down, nearly killing Shu. Leon survives the whole ordeal, so Shu's plan to kill Leon fails.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Buff

Venus Doom


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Post Count: 10392
Location: Xasta Grasslands
242611 Potch
0 Soldiers
6886538 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

holy crap, i had no idea that was a mistranslation. glad to know what it is now.
_________________


Devoted protector of Ferid and Arshtat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Vextor




Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Post Count: 12081
Location: Hell
11324811 Potch
23689 Soldiers
160 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's probably more of a "localization error" than being a mistranslation, because the entire dialogue is changed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zamza

Fire Dragon Cavaliers


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Post Count: 179
Location: Saintler Port
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That doesn't really seem any different than the dialogue in the English version I have, would you mind telling me what exactly is changed?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Vextor




Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Post Count: 12081
Location: Hell
11324811 Potch
23689 Soldiers
160 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The words were changed to make it sound like Leon is an unflexible startegist who "goes by the book." Shu says, "I had to throw away the book" etc, which makes him sound like a guy who can "think outside the box." There's no mention of how Shu had to rely on luck because Leon would see through his strategies, and neither is there mention of Shu trying to kill Leon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zamza

Fire Dragon Cavaliers


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Post Count: 179
Location: Saintler Port
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah, thank you very much for clarifing that for me, I'd forgotten about that part. I guess I'd always just assumed that Shu was trying to kill him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Buff

Venus Doom


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Post Count: 10392
Location: Xasta Grasslands
242611 Potch
0 Soldiers
6886538 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i thought shu was trying to do the same same from what he said to apple after the whole scene with leon.
_________________


Devoted protector of Ferid and Arshtat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Fudozukushi

The Fudozukushi Minion Army!


Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Post Count: 3758
Location: Jowston Hill
1081375 Potch
250 Soldiers
143 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I always thought that scene was a bit odd.
_________________
Pizza Hut supports the rebellion!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Dew Dust




Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Post Count: 4814

2127634 Potch
200 Soldiers
104 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thank you so much Sars. I really appreciate it. I honestly didn't know Shu had planned to kill Leon. What I don't understand though is why. Besides obtaining the benefit of getting rid of the main strategist of the enemy team, it seemed to be more of a reason there for Shu since he seemed so 'personal' and determined, I guess, about the whole thing. I always thought he just became ruthless to winning the war and now you make me wonder about "that people taught him there's something more important in life." Am I just looking at this wrongly?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
John Layfield

Last Literature D-Line


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, that was it, wasn't it? Taking down Leon Silverberg would have left Highland completely inept with a young king in charge. The reason why Shu himself decided to be the bait was partly personal and partly because he knew Leon would think the same thing, if Shu were to be killed, Highland would easily be able to take advantage.

While I wouldn't rate Shu too highly myself, in-game the war was really a struggle between their two intellects following the death of Luca Blight. As such, the actual loss of either of them would have crippled Highland and severely affected the New City-State Army.

As for Shu's comment about "something more important in life", you have to remember that Leon mainly dealt in abstract terms. The flow of history, the minimising of suffering and so on. He didn't join Highland out of any faith in their beliefs but merely because at the time it seemed as if he could swiftly end the war (and presented Jowy with numerous chance to do so) while minimising casualties.

Shu held a similar position, although for less well-intentioned reasons (his trading activities) but as the war went on became more emotionally involved in the events, believing in the cause the army was fighting for. It was his emotional attachment to his allies and his cause that allowed him to risk his life.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dew Dust




Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Post Count: 4814

2127634 Potch
200 Soldiers
104 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Very well put, John ^^
Thank you for clarifying things.

Quote:
but as the war went on became more emotionally involved in the events, believing in the cause the army was fighting for. It was his emotional attachment to his allies and his cause that allowed him to risk his life.


I have another question then: I heard somewhere that, well according to the person that told me this, Shu follows the philosophy of that of Leon with regards to emotional ties. Something like the idea that the strategist shouldn't be emotional attached to his/her soldiers so that the death of a soldier would not easily affect the strategist and his/her tactics. This would explain why when Nanami was about to die and was in Dr. Haun's care, everyone else was around the door showing great concern while Shu was off in the distance and withdrawn. It does kind of match to what Richard said of Shu saying that he appears cold. Is what this person told me could be a true assumption?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
John Layfield

Last Literature D-Line


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Shu's withdrawn nature makes it easier to advocate morally questionable tactics and moves more so than anything else. It's also why Leon could propose the Kalekka Massacre as a strategy. It's morality is questionable but in a purely statistical sense, it did reduce the amount of potential suffering based on an increase in local suffering.

Of course, despite Shu's change in strategic belief, it's not as if he can overturn a lifetimes personality just like that. He's still a naturally reserved person who can take actions independant of his emotions.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Gameplay Questions & Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me