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Dew Dust
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: Discussion between Shu and Leon |
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I have read somewhere that the discussion that took place between Shu and Leon during the fire scene in Suikoden II was actually a mis-translation. Does anyone here have the actual translation of the entire scene or know where I can get one? Thanks! _________________
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Stampede
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Do you need the translation word-for-word? I know the rough jist of it, at least.
Shu basically says that he can't beat Leon normally, so he has to risk his own life to do it.
In other words, I can't be smarter than you, so I will be dumber than you! _________________ Continue to push until it has given, by the way. |
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Dew Dust
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Stampede for the help! I am curious of the discussion word-for-word. There are some things I wanted to check out, but if I can't get my hands on it, it's okay. Thanks again ^^ _________________
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Vextor
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:52 am Post subject: |
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I can't give you a word-for-word translation, because it seems I have lost my Japanese Suikoden 2 disk (either that or its hidden somewhere). However, I've read that portion many times, so I should be able to tell you what you're trying to check out.
The basic jist of it is that Leon criticzes Shu for risking his life. Shu says that this was the only way he can ensure that he can kill Leon. Leon replies, saying that he is stupid for attempting such a thing. Shu then replies that because Leon would see through all of his strategies, he had to rely on luck, and that people taught him there's something more important in life, etc. Leon calls Shu a fool for not seeing the "bigger pictire." Shu lashes out, saying that he doesnt' want to "guide history."
Then, a tree burns down, nearly killing Shu. Leon survives the whole ordeal, so Shu's plan to kill Leon fails. |
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Buff
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:22 am Post subject: |
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holy crap, i had no idea that was a mistranslation. glad to know what it is now. _________________
Devoted protector of Ferid and Arshtat |
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Vextor
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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It's probably more of a "localization error" than being a mistranslation, because the entire dialogue is changed. |
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Zamza
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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That doesn't really seem any different than the dialogue in the English version I have, would you mind telling me what exactly is changed? |
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Vextor
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: |
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The words were changed to make it sound like Leon is an unflexible startegist who "goes by the book." Shu says, "I had to throw away the book" etc, which makes him sound like a guy who can "think outside the box." There's no mention of how Shu had to rely on luck because Leon would see through his strategies, and neither is there mention of Shu trying to kill Leon. |
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Zamza
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Ah, thank you very much for clarifing that for me, I'd forgotten about that part. I guess I'd always just assumed that Shu was trying to kill him. |
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Buff
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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i thought shu was trying to do the same same from what he said to apple after the whole scene with leon. _________________
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Fudozukushi
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought that scene was a bit odd. _________________ Pizza Hut supports the rebellion!
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Dew Dust
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you so much Sars. I really appreciate it. I honestly didn't know Shu had planned to kill Leon. What I don't understand though is why. Besides obtaining the benefit of getting rid of the main strategist of the enemy team, it seemed to be more of a reason there for Shu since he seemed so 'personal' and determined, I guess, about the whole thing. I always thought he just became ruthless to winning the war and now you make me wonder about "that people taught him there's something more important in life." Am I just looking at this wrongly? _________________
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John Layfield
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that was it, wasn't it? Taking down Leon Silverberg would have left Highland completely inept with a young king in charge. The reason why Shu himself decided to be the bait was partly personal and partly because he knew Leon would think the same thing, if Shu were to be killed, Highland would easily be able to take advantage.
While I wouldn't rate Shu too highly myself, in-game the war was really a struggle between their two intellects following the death of Luca Blight. As such, the actual loss of either of them would have crippled Highland and severely affected the New City-State Army.
As for Shu's comment about "something more important in life", you have to remember that Leon mainly dealt in abstract terms. The flow of history, the minimising of suffering and so on. He didn't join Highland out of any faith in their beliefs but merely because at the time it seemed as if he could swiftly end the war (and presented Jowy with numerous chance to do so) while minimising casualties.
Shu held a similar position, although for less well-intentioned reasons (his trading activities) but as the war went on became more emotionally involved in the events, believing in the cause the army was fighting for. It was his emotional attachment to his allies and his cause that allowed him to risk his life. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
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Dew Dust
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Very well put, John ^^
Thank you for clarifying things.
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but as the war went on became more emotionally involved in the events, believing in the cause the army was fighting for. It was his emotional attachment to his allies and his cause that allowed him to risk his life.
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I have another question then: I heard somewhere that, well according to the person that told me this, Shu follows the philosophy of that of Leon with regards to emotional ties. Something like the idea that the strategist shouldn't be emotional attached to his/her soldiers so that the death of a soldier would not easily affect the strategist and his/her tactics. This would explain why when Nanami was about to die and was in Dr. Haun's care, everyone else was around the door showing great concern while Shu was off in the distance and withdrawn. It does kind of match to what Richard said of Shu saying that he appears cold. Is what this person told me could be a true assumption? _________________
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John Layfield
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd agree with that. Shu's withdrawn nature makes it easier to advocate morally questionable tactics and moves more so than anything else. It's also why Leon could propose the Kalekka Massacre as a strategy. It's morality is questionable but in a purely statistical sense, it did reduce the amount of potential suffering based on an increase in local suffering.
Of course, despite Shu's change in strategic belief, it's not as if he can overturn a lifetimes personality just like that. He's still a naturally reserved person who can take actions independant of his emotions. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
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