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Editorial: Racial Diversity in Suikoden
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 11:01 pm    Post subject: Editorial: Racial Diversity in Suikoden Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Article URL--
http://www.suikox.com/ed/race40318.html

Please discuss the article here. I am interested in feedback, especially regarding the following points--

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about social issues and Suikoden?

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

3. Did the article change your perception of racial diversity in Suikodn? Why/why not?
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ubertronmanguy

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I thought it was a pretty good article and I never really wondered about the lack of black characters in Suikoden or other games but I always thought that the lack of Asian characters was kinda of wierd.
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suikoguild

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Editorial: Racial Diversity in Suikoden Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARSadmin wrote:
Article URL--
http://www.suikox.com/ed/race40318.html

Please discuss the article here. I am interested in feedback, especially regarding the following points--

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about social issues and Suikoden?

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

3. Did the article change your perception of racial diversity in Suikodn? Why/why not?


1. Articles like these are very interesting. I'm looking forward to read more like it!! 8) The social issues are intriguing!

2.
Likes:
The indepth anaysis about the situation. The arugments and counter arugments really made your article sparkal!! Very throught anaysis !!

Comments:
I always thought Black people were popluar in Japan because of that boxers that lives in Japan!! I guess thats just one case! I saw a skit done by some Japanese people using the n-word and I thought it was very troubling! Just by these action, they don't know what it means to some people!

Dislike: None very good article!

3. I doesn't really change my perspective becasue I think it typical! Many games doesn't feature Black person. What does interest me the conflict you were talking about wingers and kolbolds !! At leaast in the end they merge together and fight the enemy!! Back to the oirignal question I believe suikoden has a wild range of races just not foucus on one!! Well if we say suikoden is racist we can call lord of the ring and star wars racist!!!

Edit: Removed questionable terminology


Last edited by suikoguild on Sat May 22, 2004 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheStrategist

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: Diversity in a Troubled World Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am a Suikoden lover, and i am african american, so i try not to put too much emphasis on the subject. Of course I tink that the series could have more blacks but at the same time it could have more asians, hispanics, and middle-eastern characters. This was the same reason i didn't like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars because they could have ugly looking creatures but no ethnic characters. Having raciall diverstiy is nearly impossible in movies based on true events such as Braveheart, and Gladiator, b/c african americans didn't have any freedoms at that time. But in fiction/ fantasy worlds such as Suikoden, Final Fantasy, Lord of the Rings, there is no reason to have an all-white cast. ***And Suikoguild, please censor your comments, thanks. That word obviously doesn't mean anything to you, but it still carries significance to others***
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suikoguild

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Diversity in a Troubled World Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TheStrategist wrote:
I am a Suikoden lover, and i am african american, so i try not to put too much emphasis on the subject. Of course I tink that the series could have more blacks but at the same time it could have more asians, hispanics, and middle-eastern characters. This was the same reason i didn't like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars because they could have ugly looking creatures but no ethnic characters. Having raciall diverstiy is nearly impossible in movies based on true events such as Braveheart, and Gladiator, b/c african americans didn't have any freedoms at that time. But in fiction/ fantasy worlds such as Suikoden, Final Fantasy, Lord of the Rings, there is no reason to have an all-white cast. ***And Suikoguild, please censor your comments, thanks. That word obviously doesn't mean anything to you, but it still carries significance to others***


Sorry, It does mean alot to me! Thats why I used that commercial as an example! I have many Afican American friends and I after seeing that commerical I was upset!! Sorry if I offended anybody!! I wasn't think or thought about other user when I was typing it !!
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ultimately, it is a game. And technically, non of the characters are asians or caucasians or africans or whatever race.

To me, Konami probably just decided to make a little racial diversity in the game. Of course, there would be more japanese like characters since Konami IS japanese. I believe the topic of racial discrimination probably didn't even cross Konami's mind.

But if you observe, there is a certain trend of races in some areas in suikoden. For example, Greenhill feels like a westernised area, and Muse a chinese area(except foe Hauser of course.) And Southwindow is definitely a more japanese place.

To me, it was mainly in Jowston/Dunan that had a little confusion with the race type. For S1, hardly anything was put in focus. The low quality character art could be blamed of course. And for S3, i feel the people looked more unique. Infact, i can hardly pin point any real life race for S3...
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Personally I feel that Japan is under no pressure of poltical correctness compared to us. *Lets face it in japan their almost obbsesed with shows and computer games of women with short skirts and even have a mouse pad with woman breasts on, claiming the breast part is for wrists to relax on.*

Also personally speaking as well I don't think black people usually convince cinema goers that if they see a black guy in a fantasy film than its a genuine fantasy film. As i suspect people will see it as poltical correctness espacilly as in medieval times there has been no real racial force on europe save caussicans and from that when people see a fantasy film they feel unconvinced in seeing an african on in knight's clothing as everyone knows there was no black knight.

Personally its hard to say how this is without making me sound racist. So i'll just stop here.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't feel that there is any lack of ethnic diversity in Suikoden.
In fact, much the opposite.
I feel that great care is taken to include a large variety of ethnicities.

The world in not black and white, and within generalized terms like "caucasian"
there are many different groups that have nothing to do with one another. And really, since Suikoden isnt our world, they may not have a large continent like Africa, or India, where there are a high number of dark skinned people.

The Karaya clan were very much an amalgamation of african and native american tribal cultrures. So I think both groups are represented there.

I don't see how there arent many asian characters in the game. Tir and Riou both looked as Asian as any anime/manga style character looks. Japanese artists just choose to render other asians that way.

I am not going to complain about a lack of black characters, for the same reason I don't mind the lack of Irish, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, or any other group that isnt somehow overtly mentioned.

I identify with characters based on personality, not ethnicity.

As for black people in the fantasy genre in general. I think it is just a matter of proportion. There are simply not enough black fans and/or writers involved in the genre.

On the otherhand, television is where I find the greatest problem with this issue.
Black people can only be on "black shows" and are very rarely given any sort of reasonable representation on shows that dont specifically target black audiences.

Seinfeld, Friends...crap like that,
where everyone is white...
in New York City.

I think thats just stupid as all hell.

But I digress,

Most of my friends aren't "white" so I really have trouble buying the idea that 6 people each have an almost exclusively white circle of friends.
maybe thats just cuz of where I live, but oh well.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about social issues and Suikoden? Social, but not on the string of race. Race has always bugged me as something to talk about. When people try to draw parallels to race in things, it drives me crazy. Not saying I don't respect what ya wrote, I'm saying I didn't like what you focused on. Racism doesn't belong in videogames in my eyes. It's the kind of arguement adults through to try and say "Violence in video games affects every single kid because it had violence in it". When people play a video game they don't think about race. It isn't "Ah those damn ****** aren't in the game. I'm so happy." or "Damn ****. Die". People play for entertainment. Although this isn't the exact arguement at hand, I'm sure it would work reverse. I don't think Konami would try to racistly make a game. Support? Metal Gear Solid 2. Fortune was certainly black, and a well involved character. Albiet the rest of the people are white, you can certainly tell there is much diversity. Americans, black and white, Liquid, who I think sounds British. Raven is....No clue. Vamp is Romanian, Gurlukavich and Olga are both Russian. For all you know, Frank Jaeger could have been black (I haven't finished Metal Gear, or Metal Gear 2, only the Solids.) There is much diversity in a game like that. That's just about it. I don't think any one makes a game to be racist. Oh yea, this is a crucial note. If anyone was offended by my examples containing racist words, please tell me. They weren't written to offend anyone. I just want to make that clear.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article? Twas well written, but I didn't like the theme.

3. Did the article change your perception of racial diversity in Suikoden? Why/why not? It didn't because that was never an issue for me, and it still isn't.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In my opinion it would be very hard to keep every kind of person "happy" by using them. Like with my book I am writing I have almost all "white" men, because I believe it is easier to write about one's self because I really don't no how any other "race" thinks. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone with that post and if I did sorry in advance.
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about social issues and Suikoden?
Definitely! I think the social issues that are within the game or that the game can bring up in the minds of the fans are extremely interesting and well worth exploring further.


2. What did you like/dislike about the article?
I really appreciated all the historical information shown to try to explain the reasons why Suikoden might appear to not have a lot of racial diversity.

3. Did the article change your perception of racial diversity in Suikoden? Why/why not?
It didn't quite change it... more like it brought up new ideas to consider. I'd always thought it would be nice to have characters with more varied skin tones, but I never thought the creators were racist or anything. The article just made me really think a lot more about the issue.

Personally, I think the game's diversity lies more in the different countries and cultures and governments rather than in the color of their skin. Instead of dividing the characters into "these people have white skin, and these people have black skin," they are divided into "these people come from this sort of culture and have these types of beliefs and these other people do it this other way". I'm not sure if that makes sense but... I think it works.

I guess, on the bright side, at least they haven't put in a lot of racially diverse characters and stereotyped them all? Or...have they done this and I missed it? >.<
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The reason black people are black is because their skin has adapted over centuries to the higher exposure to the sun in Africa. Suikoden does not encompass the whole of the world. I'm sure there ARE black people somewhere. They just aren't exactly common, because Suikoden's transportation infrastructure isn't exactly up for long-term ocean voyages. Even the boats in Suikoden IV are probably going to be mostly for travelling between islands, not crossing oceans.
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Diversity in a Troubled World Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TheStrategist wrote:
I am a Suikoden lover, and i am african american, so i try not to put too much emphasis on the subject. Of course I tink that the series could have more blacks but at the same time it could have more asians, hispanics, and middle-eastern characters. This was the same reason i didn't like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars because they could have ugly looking creatures but no ethnic characters. Having raciall diverstiy is nearly impossible in movies based on true events such as Braveheart, and Gladiator, b/c african americans didn't have any freedoms at that time. But in fiction/ fantasy worlds such as Suikoden, Final Fantasy, Lord of the Rings, there is no reason to have an all-white cast. ***And Suikoguild, please censor your comments, thanks. That word obviously doesn't mean anything to you, but it still carries significance to others***



ok for one......I read "Middle Earth" was suppose to be Europe on the eleven hundreds or somthing. Saying you didn't like LOTRs because of no ethnic characters is like saying that traditional myths are raciest...like "why isn't Thor a little chinese guy?" or "Those biggot acient Greeks, Hermes should of been a homosexual Cuban pimp"

LOTRs isn't that old but was a book to begin with, how, praytell would a person from Madagascar be living in what could be geologicaly Swizerland?
Just as Luc said "there were no Black knights" wow, thats mean, i mean come on, i we're talking English, French and German knights, seesh they didn't like bla..c...i mean African americans kill those dragons....raciests.
And why weren't there any Eskimo Kings of Spain? thats not nice either.
come to think of it, Sleeping Beatuy, even is written by a Northren Europian should of been a native Austriallian.
as for Star Wars thats differnt.

also I'll need to agree with the fact that we haven't see the whole world of Suikoden, and if you noticed, in S2 apple likes somthing -called- "French Food"

meaning the Suikoden world is emulated and built -from- ours, and isn't.
if it was there would be no Jowston, Zexen, Harmonia, SME. There would be Australlia, India, Iran, Spain. how can Suikoden have "Hispanicas" if we haven't found "Suiko-Spain"?!

also who says some places aren't a merger of cultures? I saw a thing on TV about Japan, before it was taken over by wacky English guys and i heard that traders were the "parasites of socitey" I hear that and thing "where shu lives looks very Japanese, but...he is thought highly of how is that possible"

the answer is, where he lives only has arcitechual Japanese features am I wrong?


I liked your artical, you and Arkonviox make me want to make cool web pages and rule the interweb, if you didn't write it and somone else did they'd be "flaming" or writing raciest articals, Americans seem to have new media rules, such as "need x amount of minoritys in show, X ammount of alternitive lifestylers"
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about social issues and Suikoden?
Yes, I definately would.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?
Well, it was different and it does seem to make sense as to being the reason for the lack of black people in the Suikoden Series.

3. Did the article change your perception of racial diversity in Suikodn? Why/why not?
Not really. I never imagined the creators of Suikoden to be racist from the start. It is nevertheless an interesting article and I do find it weird that there are more middle eaterners in the game then blacks. (Kasim Hazil & Zamza)
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

wow Ted, how do you stand being so cool? You and another guy infulance me greatly when web stuff is conserned, prehaps we can all be a team and make cool indept web pages and show people that vidio games aren't stupid and acctually make some people think.

I think the animal-type races are more of a breed, calling the duck or lizard clan a race/clan would just make people who still belive the old idea of Africans being inferior people feel like the idea is valid.

Ducks are ducks, wingers are wingers....they aren't races or clans, a race would be like Melinistic and Luntisic people, and a clan would be like the Du Farlins and the Chukiwalish's.

why can't anyone get things correct.
Its pecause of complainers that you need to write things like this, thats why I was jokeing about the Lack of Native New Zelenders in Nortic Mythology.
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