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The Suikoden skill system
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: The Suikoden skill system Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

First introduced in Suikoden III, and then conspicuously absent from Suikoden IV, only to make a return in a somewhat different form in Suikoden Tactics, the Suikoden Skill System has undergone yet another significant change for the newest installment in the series. Among other things, the existence of both personal and party SP, a hybrid of Suikoden III and Suikoden Tactics' SP systems, and the consolodation of Magic skills into the 'Magic' skill.

There is also the existence of Advanced Skills, with the tradeoff of only being able to equip a maximum of two skills, no matter how far you progress in the game or how powerful your characters become.

So what does everyone think of the Skill System? Are we happy with the way it has turned out in Suikoden V? Did it work best in Suikoden III? Or was the less character-specific system of Suikoden Tactics the best? Obviously, Suikoden Tactics had the difference of only being able to equip Runes and Magic skills on Mage-type characters, with the exception of Hero IV, but that taken aside...

I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks. Personally, the skill system is one of my favourite parts of the later Suikoden games, and I think V is their best system yet.
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Aile

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I actually enjoy it quite a bit in it's current incarnation, but truth be told i don't work with it as much as i probably should. My first playthrough i didn't raise any skills beyond rank C.
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Elzamine

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

At first I didn't know what I thought about it, because I reeeally liked the skill system from Suikoden III.
The system for V is really growing on me now though. As Parallax had mentioned to be previous to this, you can see the effects of skills in battle more than you could in III, or so I've found anyway.
I was a little worried at first when I thought it was limited to basic magic/attack/etc based skills, but the extra advanced skills that let you use multiple advantages.

It was a new twist to an older concept and I think it'll be a hit more than a miss :)
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poorguy171




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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I personally love the new skill system. All my past complaints are fixed.

-I hated in III how characters were limited in their magic skills. This wouldn't be a problem except that unless you could get a B+ or higher, you sucked at using magic. In V, magic was more battle-friendly, and while people were still limited on their magic ranks, people with lower ranks still can use magic well. Plus, magic rings are much easier to find, so you can up people's skills more easily.

-Party SP. Nothing more needs to be said :D.
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Sage

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FYI, I haven't played tactics yet, so can't comment there.

I liked III's best still. If you know what to look for in battle, you will see a difference. Granted, the character had to get a decent rank to make advantages obvious, but getting a A isn't always what's important. Even a C (except in most magic) is good enough to make a difference. I didn't use magic a lot anyway so I didn't mind that most people sucked.

That said, I like V's system only slightly less. I love the group SP in addition to the individual's. My biggest complaint in III would be that some characters (like my FC) would have 10,000+ skill points and I would have to build up everyone else. It's definitely nice to have it here.
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, the Party SP system makes it a lot easier for you to swap characters later in the game, without having to fight a lot of unnecessary battles just to gain them some SP to invest in crucial skills. However, as far as the visible effect of skills, what I actually meant was that (in addition to being able to see the effects of skills at a somewhat lower level...) ...since the skills actually increase your vital stats, it's easier to see how much benefit you're getting, and from where.

However, my favourite improvement to the Suikoden V system is definitely the advanced skills. At first, I was quite upset at only being able to choose 2 skills. I'm still a bit annoyed by how much it limits characters with 'unique' skills that you might not need or want later in the game (Zegai, Zarase) ...but at the same time, the power of some of the unique skills makes it somewhat necessary that they have to be equipped.

You're right, though, there wasn't really anything wrong with Suikoden III's skill system. I mostly took issue with the Magic, as I really love to use a lot of Magic myself, especially against bosses. As the Rune animations have gotten steadily less cool (since Suikoden II) and are only slightly more interesting in V than IV, I'm slightly less enamoured with spellcasters of late, but I still do like to just toss as much firepower at enemies as possible with Runes and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know it's off-topic, but I wanted to comment.

I do agree that the spell animations in V are rather dull at time, and many of them are recycled (such as Zerase's and Levi's combo attack). However, there are so many different runes in the game, it doesn't bug me at all. In IV, there are a total of 13 different magic runes (5 of which were just the upper-tier elemantals), 3 of which could only be equipped to 1 character. This made mages utterly useless, and you really only needed to have 1 or 2 in your party (which was already small).

In V, I like using different mages and such just because there are so many runes to use!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There are some good things and some bad things. I like the new party skill points but it sort of fills a little slow so i have to donate from my hero in order to boost it, but its a nice feature and you can feed points to weaker character. I wish they had kept the many skills like in Suikoden 3, I hate being limited to 2 even though the skills do account for a lot more. I guess its to prevent your character from becoming Uber.
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You're only limited to two skills until you find the advanced skills...which combine two or more skills into one skill slot. The Prince in particular has ridiculously good skill potential with seemingly everything, meaning that he has the potential to be quite a monster with skills at the end of the game. Lyon is quite powerful in that way as well...with other characters lagging noticeably behind either of them, except in their own specific areas of expertise.

Quote:
In V, I like using different mages and such just because there are so many runes to use!


And while this is off-topic, I feel the need to respond. I agree with you completely, magic was incredibly boring in Suikoden IV. It was just a matter of using a couple of upper-tier Elemental Runes, and the Rune of Punishment and Soul Eater Rune if you wanted to. In Suikoden V, they've expanded tremendously, with all kinds of unique cast Runes like Zarase's Star Rune. They've also brought back Runes like Darkness and Resurrection and Pale Gate, and the Shield Rune and added the Rune of Condemnation (the lesser Rune of Punishment) as more general type Runes. I imagine there are a lot I still haven't seen, too.

On which note, I would like to direct my delight once again at not having the Magic skill system of Suikoden III. There may not be that much noticeable improvement in some ways regarding the physical skills...but in Suikoden V at least characters with a mediocre affinity for magic can still cast and be somewhat worthwhile. Also, even with only a C or so in Magic, most characters with a decent inherent Magic score can still dish out some serious damage with the more powerful spells on the Runes. In Suikoden III, magic was pretty hard to use, with the exception of a few characters who were excellent with their Runes, like Geddoe with True Lightning.
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Hawk Thanatos

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Where the hell's the Darkness Rune?
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Cohkka




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have a whole slew of those advance skills, but I can't level them up or equip them. Can anyone tell me how to do that?
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Sage

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You have to reach certain ranks in the skills they boost; I think it's an A. For example, to boost Raging Lion, you have to have at least an A in both Stamina and Attack.
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Cohkka




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah, makes sense. Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I dont understand 2 things:

1.Party SP what good for?
2.How to equip epic skills?I have some but cant access them
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Buff

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

party sp is so you can transfer that sp to characters or us it if a character needs a little extra sp to upgrade a skill. not sure on the epic skills since i can't also get them to equip. but from looking at some of the posts it seems you need to have a "a rank" in certain skills to have them work.
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