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What're Suikoden V's biggest issues to you? (minor spoilers)
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: What're Suikoden V's biggest issues to you? (minor spoilers) Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This game is good, but not great to me. It's not bad either. At the point I'm at (Rainwall), there have been a few niggling problems that keep this game from reaching "great" status. Atleast thus far. I'm actually inclined to agree with Dunham in some ways at this point.

Firstly, the game lacks a sense of polish. The loading and the awful, AWFUL cutscene direction really kill this game for me. I don't mind loading when you go from world map to village, or anything in the gameplay sense, but to have loading in between various cutscenes is simply mind blowng. This was, to many people, one of the most annoying aspects of Suikoden IV. Load screen, Cutscene, 6 second now loading screen, 5 second cutscene, now loading, cutscene, and finally back to being able to control Lazlo, and in this case, the Prince.

It makes the game feel like it hasn't been made by professionals or veterans in the genre, but game design newbies. To put it simply, I love the scenario writer, but I hate the direction. Often times cutscenes lose emotional impact, and they are really quite laughable and sometimes cringing at how badly directed they are.

They are simply too short and lack meat. This was a problem in SIV, and it's less of a problem in SV, but the lack of polish still remains and gives the game a shoddy feeling. I think my biggest example would be after the Sol Falena attack. You're in Lunas, the hero gets emotional and thinks of the good times with his family, and then out of nowhere he stands up.

This scene lasts about 15 seconds at most, and it's padded between loading screens. Why? What the heck did THAT mean? He just stands up. Another example: often times when you get to towns, they show you a quick glimpse of the area you should be heading. I just got to Rainwall. At the beginning there was a load time, and then introduction as to where you should be going, load screen, and then it showed a clip of the Barow's mansion........which was maybe only 5 seconds long in length, after that there were more load times. What's up with that?

Why did Konami approve of having the load times to be the sprites? Back in SI and II days, the sprites only appeared when you were loading your game. Why have it every other screen? A black screen that just plays the music should suffice . Why do the cutscenes just....END like that, with little or no transition back into gameplay?

I'm at the scene with Lyon and the Prince at the sunset, really great scene, and it just kinda...ENDS. It doesn't let you absorb the music, nor the scene, right when Lyon finishes talking it just ends. The most shocking thing about this for me is that this was prevalent in SIV. People HATED this. Why didn't they fix it? If they fixed these problems, this game wouldn't get as much flak as it does.

I looked in my manual and you see they started working on the English translation around June (was it? Or May? I forgot) at the LEAST. That means they were working on the Japanese version for atleast a year. Yes a year. So, for a game in development for this long, what's with these problems? It makes the game feel like it was handled by amatuers.

I didn't mind the slow start, in fact I loved it, but I'm not really feeling Sakiyama's direction in the series. A good director would have noticed these issues, or atleast someone would. The scenario writer is perfect. But this game lacks a sense of polish other rpgs, no games have.

*your posts lack polish as well; start using paragraphs, or there may be some problems here; no one wants to read large blocks of text, so start using paragraphs. it's not that hard; really, it isn't-no harder than hitting the enter key after you've finished expressing a thought or idea on a subject, so make it happen.*
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Thief

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I remember someone mentioning ADD in one of the other topics.

While I do find loading to be very cumbersome at times throughout the game, I hardly noticed that many of them during actual story cutscenes. Have the frequency been increased for the translated release?
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Danny




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I guess Level 5 should redo the Suikoden Series... Their graphics are way better than Konami's designers... (Now, I'm talking about Dragon Quest VIII's design, which was... just perfect.) With graphs like that, Suikoden 5 would had been better. (sorry if my english stinks) Though, I expect the story to be something like Suikoden II or similar. Suikodens are not like Final Fantasies, they're better! (... forgeting the fact Suikoden 4 had the worst gameplay I ever seen... Nah, Unlimited Saga was worse!)
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This has nothing to do with ADD, because I have patience. However, the lack of polish is ludicrous at times. You shouldn't have to have loading in between cutscenes PERIOD. One continuous cutscene is prefered. It's certainly not something game breaking, but it's still there, so I will complain.

The graphics are just fine to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It hasn't bothered me. In fact, I hadn't even noticed it until you mentioned it!
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Skooboi




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: What're Suikoden V's biggest issues to you? (minor spoil Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Himuro wrote:

Hey Himuro, it's SkooBrink from GA-F but they banned me for some reason. Anyways my biggest gripe is that the cut-scenes end too soon. It lacks any transition and I would have liked the music to extend a little outside of the cut-scene itself. The story is the biggest thing Suikoden V has going for it but if it can't even convey the themes and feelings correctly then I just don't know. I am also about 24 hours in, and the game has gotten really good. The game is a very very long one indeed, at 21 hours I could have gone through Suikoden II in it's entirety, let alone finish Suikoden. I've also finally gotten to a major breaking point in terms of discovering mysteries and a change of location. The main issue of the game apparently isn't the writers, but is the developers and programmers. They just plain suck and ruined a great tale. Another gripe I have is the lack of any Suikoden Stars in the towns. You barely see any just standing around save for a few moments. It makes everything appear very barren and boring. At 24 hours, I still haven't seen a substantial amount of stars and I'd hate for all of them to come directly from the story.

Oh and yea the scene in Lunas when he suddenly stands up. It's just symbolism that he wants to change the nation. Riou, Tir, Hugo and even Lazlo had their moments like that. Suikoden V just didn't play it as well. Oh and Himuro, a quick tip. Once you get farther in the game and you meet new people. The first thing you should do is go and sharpen their weapons. A gripe I have is that all the new people come with their weapons sharpened at level 1. This means everybody attacks at like 25 dmg when my main character does around 300. It's ridiculous as I have to walk all the way back to town, and waste around an hour. The other Suikodens had pre-sharpened weapons for most of the characters.

Oh and Suikoden V has been in production since Suikoden IV. I also agree that the game feels ridden with bugs. It feels like they never really played through the entire game.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Huh? Why were you banned?

And I agree completely. This game is all about story, but it's unable to convey some of it's themes because of this cutscene problem.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Huh? Why were you banned?

And I agree completely. This game is all about story, but it's unable to convey some of it's themes because of this cutscene problem.

Huh? Who edited my post? That was a pretty silly reason to edit someone's post. Since when have we become grammar police here? I didn't put it in multiple paragraphs because it was one complaint. If I wanted to seperate it into multiple paragrpahics, I would have one complaint per paragraph!
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Last edited by Himuro on Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Himuro wrote:
Huh? Why were you banned?

And I agree completely. This game is all about story, but it's unable to convey some of it's themes because of this cutscene problem.

Dunno. Where are you in the game so far? Things pick up very quickly and escalate rapidly compared to the other Suikodens. Seriously, very rapidly. It makes Suikoden II and Suikoden look mellow in how things unraveled. Oh and for some reason no one wants to join my army..... real frustrating. I got the blacksmith the hammer he wanted but he made some excuse and didn't join me.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm at Rainwall and I've met Luserina.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Himuro wrote:
I'm at Rainwall and I've met Luserina.

I'll tell you this, things will start to pick up and I guess the prince's character will take a change. Just a tip for everyone, don't stick M-rated classed in the front row. Stick them in the center. I had my prince in the front for the entire game and I was wondering how was it possible that he kept missing. Apparently S-class do best in front. M-class do best in middle, and L-class do best in back. Anything else and they miss consistently. Also... where the hell did Tir McDohl's outfit go? The Prince spontaneously changed outfits again.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've been putting my M warriors in the front or the back like I do in past Suikoden's. I was thinking mid ranged characters can attack from anywhere with little change in accuracy, while long and short characters lose accuracy if they're in the front or back respectively.

What the? How did I double post?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ok for me its the load time it seems after anything happens it has to load...and the number of fights it seems every 3 steps you fight now i dont really mind fighting but come on i find it annoying although im not far in the game only about 3 hours :? but i love it still
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I really can't stand the camera views and graphics style. I hate not being able to see everything on the screen and im constantly worried that I am missing treasure chests by walking out of view becuase of huge buildings. The birds eye view is just horrible, even when you zoom in, you cant see anything except the heroe, so it doesnt help at all. It also is hard to tell charecters apart because of this. I worrie about the time when I get my castle >.< How am I going to be able to tell charecters apart?! Thats really the only thing that detracts from the game for me. I also don't really like the Equip menus either though.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Honestly all the little problems do not amount to enough to hinder my enjoyement factor. I was right there with everyone saying that IV had choppy cutscenes and yet I've barely noticed it in V...so obviously there has to be a big improvement. Even if it still exists a little, and maybe could have been a little better, it's not to the point that it draws me out of the story. The scene with Lyon and the prince at sunset even--that was a beautiful scene and I did not notice any real choppy nature to it. So I don't know...obivously the problem is more evident to some than others, but honestly I would think it'd be a minor flaw, esp. since it's vastly improved over IVs way of telling the story.

And Himuro, while I will say I can see where you're coming form with this, even if i don't agree, I think when you say the scenes lack "meat"--that's just not true. Yeah, a scene is sometimes short (ie a voiced scene lasts a mere seconds and the switched to regular, unvoiced scene), and this perhaps makes it feel choppy and short...but then the scene usually continues on. And when there is a short scene it is usually short for a reason, like gerg's mysterious meeting(s) with Ferid early on etc. But even if short, the content of the scenes is great--informative, funny, emotional etc etc etc. And there's a LOT of little cutscenes and tlaking and there's just story and dialogue around every corner--they imrpoved this 200 percent from IV...

And honestly if you think back to the early games, the cutscenes are much the same way...if you took out the "now loading" you would still have some little short scenes...only difference is the transition between them was fast so you didn't notice it very much. Maybe that's it--the loading times gives the illusion of choppiness. And in that regard--yeah if they could have elminated most (if not all) in game loading, I think there would be barely any complaints for this game from many people. Eh i'm rambling now.

My biggest issue with the game might be how in cutscsnes where it's just in-game graphics, not zoomed in, everything seems a little small as it is zoomed out on the max camera setting by default. So when it's not a voiced cutscene, some of the little details get lost. It's just a little personal thing that i've already gotten over, but still--i guess it's an issue to me nonetheless. And see, that's not even that big of an issue.

Also: why are so many shops just people standing in the open? Seems odd you could seel a whole selection of armor from a single crate ^^; I more find this amusing than bad...and i'm sure they did it to save from having a to go into, since there are already so many most of the time. Guess this issue fits in with the "sparsity" of some of the location's designs. But other really nice, detailed locales make up for the occasional "bleh"ness of others, i'd say.

I'm not going to say the game is "great" yet either--but not because any problems are keeping me from it--just because I don't want to say that now only to take it back later. BUT if things continue like they are, or dare i say even get BETTER, this game will indeed be the first "great" Suikoden in quite some time.

For now I am one happy fanboy!

Edit: Oh almost forgot...to everyone complaining about camera angles, I wonder--at first I too was like "hmm I can't see myself!" but then I stumbled upon some treasure or an area with a potenntial SOD and started to wonder...maybe, just maybe, the way the camera works, by hiding certain areas, is on purporse. I've found hidden treasure chests, ones not viewable on screen at all, but just because i'm a click-a-holic I found them even though i couldn't see the chest OR my characters on screen. In the same way there are certain paths that are semi-hidden that have led me to the house of a SOD. So yeah--it might be kinda annoying...but i'm looking at it in a positive way and thinking "Oh, this will just make getting all the stuff in this game THAT more of a challenge!" And I do like a good challenge in a game. Maybe i'm just being overly optimistic here and giving the game too much credit...but either way, it's my opinion. : )
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