Canadian Seal Hunt: Needless slaughter? or Nessasary action?

Schala-Kid · Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject:

While we're hunting seals, let's get some whales and dolphins and have a banquet!

I have a t-shirt that says
"stop clubbing
baby seals!"

it it has baby seals on barstools bouncing balls on their nose (their party trick) in a club.

Eden · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:36 am Post subject:

That are some good question, Schala-kid. I know some peoplewho think that killing animals who are almost gone from the surface of our planet (or beneath, speaking of dolphins and whales), is a terrible crime, but those other beast are pretty unimportant. Hey, there are enough of these things running, flying and crawling around. You almost fall over them!
Yeah... I know I am rather extreme, but I don't like beauty-difference either. Okay, a dog is so sweet, it licks over your face and you can touch it without getting dirty (most times)! Who cares about animals who aren't cute? Why is is terrible to kick a cat, but it is such a fun to tear off a spider's legs or the wings of a fly? Okay, you can't cuddle with a insect and it won't be a joker for dating women like a little dog puppy is and it will certainly not attack a robber, but does that qualify one animal to be worth living and another not? It is not racism, but specism, isn't it? Some creature is worth everything and another is worth dying... (fast or slow, who cares). I stopped killing animals just because they aren't cute and I don't even kill mosquitos. I know they could make me ill, but it is worth it, at least for me.
Do I believe that I am a better person because of this? Yes and No. I do not believe that I am better than anybody who kills insects (for example), but I am sure that I am a better person than before, because I realised that it is terrible to kill creatures because they aren't cute and to not "wasting" a thought for what I have done...
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Schala-Kid · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:00 am Post subject:

This just happened today

Fur Seals Killed off Wilsons Prom

about 40 were killed last night. The animals are protected (the area they were shot in is a marine park). There was no reason for these animals to be killed (they're not being furred or eaten, or being used in any way) which just leaves this as an awful crime so the fishermen don't have their catches eaten. this was disgusting. I'm glad the animals are protected, and these people will be charged, obviously though, i don't think you could price the lives of such a rare endangered seal.

RedCydranth · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

Ok, Schala, that example you just gave is animal cruelty because it was done just for the sake of killing.

However in the case of the large overpopulated seals by the martime provinces of Canada, if the seals are being hunted for pelts and there's a side benefit of restocking the depleted fish, then I'm all for it. Would this be an issue if seals looked like Wildebeasts? I think the fact that seals are cute factors in a lot heavier than people initially think. Many of the people protesting it don't want the cute baby seals slaughtered. Now if they were ugly little cockroaches, nobody would give a flying crap. Its all relative to the general cuteness or beauty of the animal.

Killing seals to save the fish is the same thing as spraying insecticide or shooting rabbits and crows from a farm. If you can actually explain how corn and wheat is any different than fish as a crop then by all means give it a shot. Both are harvested, both are raised where they grow best. Just because fish are in water doesn't make it any less of a crop than anything you can grow on land. Fisherman are the farmers of the sea. They work just as hard, if not harder than any farmer also. Its their right to protect what is theirs. The seals don't see the fish as ours, just as the crows don't see the wheat and corn as ours. Same with weasels and chickens. As far as the weasel is concerned a chicken coop is a convenience.

Since the advent of farming back in B.C. humans have contended with nature for their food supply. This instance is absolutely no different. Seals have become overpopulated and are eating more than their share of the fish and its affecting the fisherman, so the fisherman have gone out and fixed the problem. Crop protection.

If its about the taking of the seals lives in general then why don't you hound the fisherman for fishing. Its a LOT more inhumane to pull a fish out of water and let it suffocate than to club a seal in the back of its head. If its about the seals' lives then persecute all the insect control specialists. They kill millions of creatures every day. Just because a creature is an invertibrate doesn't make it less important. Right? Shouldn't ants, cockroaches and spiders have a right to live? Its not really their fault people live like slobs and attract them, is it?

When it comes down to it, 98% of animal rights advocates don't go all the way. If you stand for something, stand for it. Don't pick and choose based on cuteness or how it first appears.
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Rune hunter · Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject:

Heh, there no rule that states if i stand for something i should stand for it all the way. I can for example stand for abortion when it endangers the life of a child but not stand for abortion becouse its convinient for the parent. In the same manner i can stand for not allowing people to club seal becouse i think it is uneccessary while still accept people who fish.

The question here really is "are the seals really having a large impact on the fish stocks?" If yes are there any other ways to control the seal population that might be less cruel?

Eden · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:35 am Post subject:

Red, could you please show me where on a fish the name of its right fisher stands? What rightfully is theirs? What does that mean? Is a swarm who enters the area that belongs to a fisherman unlucky, because now it is just wheat (because there is no difference as you said).
And how does a horde of seals eat more than their share? What does that actually mean? I believe those animals eat as much as they need and as they are able to. I can't remember seeing seals poking because they ate too much and I don't think that they eat just for the heck of it. How is that more than their share? I don't want to offend you, but I can't understand it entirely...
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Swish · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:

Eden, noone said anything about "more than thier share." What makes you say, Eden, that the seals (or any other animal, for that matter) get a share of the food to begin with?

Is your claim that the animals have more right to life than we do? Because if so, i'll buy you that next bus ticket to Canada where you can start giving the seals YOUR food. And we'll watch as the headlines change from the seals dieing to your willing starvation.

And Rune... by "less cruel" do you mean something along the lines of rounding up these seals we want to kill and gas them? Or give them all injections like we do our death row prisoners? What part of killing something isn't cruel? I'm sure the fish love getting eaten by the Seals, but you don't see random seals refusing to eat because it hurts the fish's feelings.

Clubbing is actually "Humane" to the seals. Death is instant. One strike, and the seal is dead. And, because no chemicals were used and because it wasn't cut up, the hide is perfectly fine to be skinned off... as well as the meat being used for food.

I find it incredibly silly that some people care about the manner in which we kill our food, and yet say "it's nature" when predetory animals kill their prey in horriffic manners....
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Rune hunter · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject:

Well if you really think there is an "over population" of seal why not just neuter them. At least you dont kill them.

Personally i believe animals have "just as much right" to live as we do. So even if i want to save these seals it would not justify my giving my food to them becouse i have just as much right to live as they do.

The reason we care in the manner we kill our food is becouse were human. Its in our nature to care. If we didn't have that ability we would be no better then animals.

Eden · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:17 am Post subject:

Swish, actually, Red said something about their share... I can't quote it at the moment, sorry.
Anyway, where do you find my thesis that an animal's life is worth more than a human being? I just think that a seal is not worth less than a human being. Furtermore can't I see why I should starve, because seals eat more fish. Like pigs the human being is able to eat more than fish, but I can't remember seeing seals hunting down a cow in order to get food.
A last thing: I have never seen seal hunting in reality, but on vidoes those people hit the seals more than once with their club and please don't make me laugh by saying those people are good persons because they make sure the seal doesn't feel pain after it is killed by a perfect aimed hit... I hope my bad polemic doesn't offend you.
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