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age, realtionships and laws
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: age, realtionships and laws Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

taken from a horrble trainwreck topic I made at another forum.
do you here think we shold do away with those silly willy doo-doo laws that say that I, a 24 year old cannot date and have sex with a 15 year old? many do, mainly because they may be mature, intellegent 16 year old girls dating 20 somthings, Its love, age sholdn't matter. *insert stupid giggle*

anway Its all about love and finding the right person for you, and maturaty and an individual's capiblities. Keep in mind, also things broght up were mentaly challanged people, If a 20 year old is dating a 18 year old, but the one is female and mentaly lets say 13, should she be under this law? meanwhile with having the age of concent delt away with..or kept at, lets say 10. meaing a 12 year old can legaly date and have sex with a 17 year old.

what does anyone say here? anyone here want to tell if the're in an illegal realtionship? are you 15 with a two year old and daddy is 19? (I saw this on a site, and yes the girl was promoting large gap realtionships or its ok to date a teenager with a kid)
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Masaya

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ooh man...hhahah a 24 year old dating a 15 year old...for one I"m going to question why the 24 year old person is actually having to stoop that low of a age to find someone to be with. Most likely they have some serious adaptive disorders with the people around their own age, or inturn very immature themselves.

Another point why that should NEVER be is because yeah, you'll find people mental young your entire life. Does that mean a immature 40 year old should never be able to marry? Ofcoarse not, and the fact is a 15 year old is physically not fully matured, and really are not mentally either, as much as you would like to think...they're brain has not fully devolped. Laws were made so super old people wouldn't take advantage of the naive-ness of these little youngins and ofcoarse it should be upheld. I mean, not say a few age different doesn't hurt..my is 21 and I"m 18.. a 2 or 3 year different really isn't a HUGE deal when everyone starts to pass the age of 18...however before then...it's just very shady and iffy....
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Camus the Noble

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I find this to be a complicated issue. Obviously, younger people are less likely to be able to emotionally handle a sexual relationship, but it's a trickly thing to try to draw the line. The only concrete indicator that the government can measure by is age, but that really is unfair toward those who may be more mature than the majority of their peers.

One huge loophole in statutory rape laws and other such statutes it that they can create situations like the following: Two teenagers are in a relationship and are having sex. However, one suddenly turns eighteen and their relationship is illegal. That's ridiculous.

Basically, I think that statutory rape and age of consent laws are necessary to some degree, but that they should be kept a bare, bare minimum.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, saying that this issue is complicated isn't even the half of it, since it all relies on the individual rather than society. Some 15 year olds are extremely headstrong and mature, and do make good choices, while others are typical 15 year olds.

Ku says:
Quote:
what does anyone say here? anyone here want to tell if the're in an illegal realtionship? are you 15 with a two year old and daddy is 19? (I saw this on a site, and yes the girl was promoting large gap realtionships or its ok to date a teenager with a kid)


Shouldn't that be reworded a little? Don't you mean '...or it's okay for a teenager to have a kid'? Seriously, if some wants to date a teenage mother, I don't care, your choices are your own. The way it's worded almost paints teenage mothers as bad, when really they probably just made a stupid choice when they were young.

Also:
Quote:
anway Its all about love and finding the right person for you, and maturaty and an individual's capiblities. Keep in mind, also things broght up were mentaly challanged people, If a 20 year old is dating a 18 year old, but the one is female and mentaly lets say 13, should she be under this law? meanwhile with having the age of concent delt away with..or kept at, lets say 10. meaing a 12 year old can legaly date and have sex with a 17 year old.


Masaya says:
Quote:

Another point why that should NEVER be is because yeah, you'll find people mental young your entire life. Does that mean a immature 40 year old should never be able to marry? Ofcoarse not, and the fact is a 15 year old is physically not fully matured, and really are not mentally either, as much as you would like to think...they're brain has not fully devolped. Laws were made so super old people wouldn't take advantage of the naive-ness of these little youngins and ofcoarse it should be upheld. I mean, not say a few age different doesn't hurt..my is 21 and I"m 18.. a 2 or 3 year different really isn't a HUGE deal when everyone starts to pass the age of 18...however before then...it's just very shady and iffy....


Case in point. Masaya here is dating a 21 year old girl and is 18 but generally comes off as 12 to all of you I'm sure, and his girlfriend probably acts her age ;)
Makes me love you, baby!
But, he did bring up a great example of a person physically and sexually mature who may have not progressed past 18 mentally. They shouldn't have to die alone when they could find someone just because of conditions that were decided at birth, and therefore beyond their control.

C-Notes says:
Quote:
One huge loophole in statutory rape laws and other such statutes it that they can create situations like the following: Two teenagers are in a relationship and are having sex. However, one suddenly turns eighteen and their relationship is illegal. That's ridiculous.


Very true, and also very hard to police. My friend was 17 (going on 18 in a few months) and started dating a girl who just turned 16, and it was a big deal for nothing. What are they going to do, send police to every high school and watch the kids? Truth is, high school is all about dating younger people (but mostly younger girls), and it's always been that way and always will be.

I also always wondered why there was a legal age for consentual sex (16), and then the age at which you are no longer considered a minor (18). I mean, two years...

But in closing, the laws are necessary for protection of young people, but the strictest enforcement of them would of course be impossible. Only the individual can enforce them themselves, which makes them more of a guideline than a law. If a 17 year old and a 20 year old have been dating for a while and have that connection, they're going to have sex, but does that make it okay, if it's consentual?

Another issue altogether...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There has to a be a line. It's not right, but here in the united states and well every where we have to be un-fair as not to cause chaos. No strict line means hired lawers could easily loophole around it if it was brought before court and make it useless.

Also most people don't have a problem when it's a minor age difference (mostly a psyical apperence plus acutal age creates what is minor or not) if both sides of the family and the public around them agree with the hookup. It's when there is an angry mother or something and they use it to get rid of the older "lover". Also if there is this kind of gap you shouldn't be having sex anyway becasue they should know the potential implications if the younger mate or there parents decide to ruin your life.

In fact I think the line should be more clearly defined becasue cases keep differing with the judge and state when it deals with young people.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
One huge loophole in statutory rape laws and other such statutes it that they can create situations like the following: Two teenagers are in a relationship and are having sex. However, one suddenly turns eighteen and their relationship is illegal. That's ridiculous.


I actually think there a parts of the law that deals with situations like that. I have heard, I am not positive about this though, that there is some leeway in prosecution if there is a two year difference between the two, ie. a 16 and 18 year old would be prosecuted different than a 18 and 15 year old, and I know that there's a difference in law if the 12 and under or 13-17.

Anyway, I think the law is a good one, mainly because it works as a blanket law. There will be some circumstnces where children under 18 are very mature and can deal with a long term adulat relationship and there will be cases were some one above 18 can't, but by and large, people under 18 aren't going to b able to. I think it's becuase they've been living with their parents their whol elife and they don't know enough about themselves or the world to really know what they want in a relationship or how to deal with one in a practical manner.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

what is this topic about,how old are we?if it is am 16.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Timbo wrote:
Quote:
One huge loophole in statutory rape laws and other such statutes it that they can create situations like the following: Two teenagers are in a relationship and are having sex. However, one suddenly turns eighteen and their relationship is illegal. That's ridiculous.


I actually think there a parts of the law that deals with situations like that. I have heard, I am not positive about this though, that there is some leeway in prosecution if there is a two year difference between the two, ie. a 16 and 18 year old would be prosecuted different than a 18 and 15 year old, and I know that there's a difference in law if the 12 and under or 13-17.


This is not exactly the law in Canada, but there's a clause similar to it in Canada.

Two people may have sex with each other if they're both over 12 and they are within two years of age from each other. I *think* it's 12.

If the difference is over two years, then the younger one has to be at least 14, I think.

There used to be a lot of rules related to "You can marry at age 14 with consent of the guardians, but you can only have sex with someone older than you without the consent of your guardians if you're 16..." but those were removed. The age of consent in Canada is 14.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think, At some age it's not that imortant anymore how old one is, but for teenagers are the differences of two or three years much wider than for adults. I lost my virginity in early years and I was always hanging around with older people, but I don't think you could handle a relationship with a 18 years ols when you're only 13. After all the differences are huge, even if one is more mature than his old suggests or the other is "less mature" than it it should be. If one is older the age isn't important for a long period, just if the people becoming old the range becomes more important again. My father's second wife was 15 years older than me and 15 years younger than he was. "That's love!"
(just for me: I can't imagine to have sex with a young girl. All my girl friends were older than me)
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Heroic Knight 3211 wrote:
what is this topic about,how old are we?if it is am 16.


so ar you dating a 12 year old or a 22 year old? this topic is about laws and relationships.

anway My trainwreck topic has more supporters of geting rid of said law. I can see if said lovers were 15 and 17 when dating, eventualy somone turns 18, but no, this is more like "agg people stop snubbing me, because I'm dating an adult guy...so what If I'm 15? hes 23 he loves me" if it comes up. i go on a site where somne net love birds have that kind of drastic age differance, else where Its differnt. so yes. lets chage the laws to only protect real kids.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, it is a little unfair for that transitional stage, where You are both techincally only a year or so apart, however you just turned 18, but who you like is only 16 or 17.. Perhaps they shouldn't completely abolish the law, but add ranges in my opinion....

Generally girls seem to be looking for more "mature" men, which alot of times does lead for the guy to be 4 or even 5 years older. I mean after both of them are 18 it should just be whatever, your both adults, deal with it yourself. But before 18, your Legal gaurdians are mostly responisble of the youngen in the first place. And genreally if your only 15, how does he or she even know what love could be. Most kids that age havn't really had the chance to devolpe many serious relationships and mostly likely are unexperienced, unlike the 23 year old who stastically has dated and been through more relationships..and usually the older your getting the more your thinking about a long term relationship, if not your just wanting to date them to...? "Have fun"...which is just in my opinion nasty....that boy or girl isn't even matured physically...eh..
And if it really is just perhaps for a more serious and long term relationship, the child still isn't matured and experienced life enough to know what they want. Settling down with one person, who is expeically that much older at your own young age just seems stupid and naive.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much I will just go by what I would think as a parent's view, as opposed to as a young adult's view. I would definately not want my children who are still legally under my care until they are 18 years old, to be messing around with grown men/women. Mainly because yes, I do believe that is unappropriate and its something I would not want my kids to be involved with.

That would also put more children at risk to be molested or brutally assaulted. Teenagers do not know love, even some adults do not understand love.....therefore I believe the bind would only be a sexual one as opposed of me believeing the possibility that there were potential feelings between the two. A middle aged man in his late 30s with a teenage girl who is 16 years old......is it just me.....or does that just seem wrong * Of course thats MY opinion*. You would already assume the man was molesting the girl, that there is no love between the two.

Besides I would think this as well would trap a lot of young girls. Teenage girls get very emotional, they would think that their heart is set on this man......however men reach their sexual peak around that age......*late 20s to early 30s from what I hear* I doubt he would want anything more then just sex....as opposed to the girl wanting to get married to him.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Want my honest view? If you are under 17 you should no be having sex, period. If you do and are caught, not just the person you are having it with will get into trouble but but the younger person will also be strictly fined (except in actual rape cases, thats a whole different turkey).

However that is not the law here in the United States. I beleive the law varies state to state and there is no actual federal ruling of what constitutes statutory rape. But to address the issue of a fifteen year old consenting to sex with a 24 year old, that is straight up wrong. I don't care how mature the fifteen year old is, the could be Doogie fricking Hoswer graduated college at 15, they are still too young to have the burden of sex placed upon them. There are still physical changes going on inside of the body during puberty that sex can totally screw with. Especially in females. And I'm willing to be most 15 year olds in sexual relationships aren't the heavily mature "Doogie Howser MD" advanced types. Chances are they're the "lost in life" type of teen who is only having sex because it sounds like a mature thing to do.

The 24 year old in this equation is equally as incompetent (sorry Ku if you are directly affected by this, you know I think you're an awesome chick, but contemplating sex with a 15 year old is not something I advise you to do.) because as a mature adult (or supposedly mature) he or she should realize that the 15 year old is in a phase of wanting to be an adult but isn't quite one yet. Its best that the law be obided in this case.

In the scenario of the two 16 year olds dating and one turns 17 thrusting them in an illegal situation, I should remind you that if they were both having sex before either of them were 16 this constitutes as "Criminal Sexual Conduct with a minor" for both participants. I saw a Law and Order which addressed this very issue and while both consented, both were underage and both were charged. While yes that is only a television show, the laws are still correctly portrayed. Yes, the charge of statutory rape is heftier (I beleive its high level felony compared to the Criminal Sexual conduct with a Minor is a low felony or a misdemeanor) the couple should still refrain from activity until both parties are of age, that is unless sex inside of a prison is something they want to explore. Yuck.

I remember when I was 16 and honestly, while sure sex sounded great on paper, i knew that it was something I shouldn't be doing, so i never did it. i had a few opportunities, but I chose to abstain. I used the "Waiting for the right person" cliché and I held out until Im found that right person and we waited until we were in love to take that step. Looking back I am so glad I didn't jump into sex when I was young. My current girlfriend started having sex at 15 and she has said she regrets doing it so early. She was coersced by her older boyfriend at the time.

Ultimately there isn't a whole lot we can do to stop it from happening, but I feel that if morals were taught more heavily in homes then we'd have a much better society. Not just in sex either, manners and overall respect of people's elders has gone down the tubes in this society.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Camus the Noble
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One huge loophole in statutory rape laws and other such statutes it that they can create situations like the following: Two teenagers are in a relationship and are having sex. However, one suddenly turns eighteen and their relationship is illegal. That's ridiculous.


In my country there are a few exceptions of this case. My best friends, for example, are together for 5 long years, given that they are 18 and 19 now, that's a really long time don't you think? As she turned 18 and he was still 17, it was theoretically a forbidden relationship, but thus their relationship has longed for nearly a third of their entire lives, it is considered by our government as a kind of cohibitation AND therefore both their parents agree with the relationship everything legal.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The law is mostly there to help punish pedophiles, but it can also be used against you very easily by the parents of the minor.
*shrug*
Regardless of how much you want to have sex, you have a mental maturity over them (you've been 'awake' to these thougths and feelings for 10 years, him for -maybe- 2... ). Put simply, it's most likely that he's not ready for it, however much he wants.

On the other hand, he's a guy, so he's probably horny. If his parents won't find out, I'll close my eyes..
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