World Map-Thread Spawned True Rune Talk

[Calvin]

[Thief]

Some true runes being more/less powerful than others? Like Zonder, I cannot accept that until the proper sources are cited.

And, I also doubt that the true runes could be perfectly divided between Chaos and Order in the first place. Rune of Beginning is not the only one with duality. Every true rune comes with it by default, so that argument cannot hold.

[Vextor]

I wouldn't say that order and creation are directly related, nor chaos directly related to destruction, because the opposite can also happen. A rule-laden evnvironment can stymie creative innovation, and often times it is in times of great chaos that new ideas are born.

[Linnaeus]

[Vextor]

It was "split." That's different from being "destroyed."

[John Layfield]

Also, try not to limit your idea of which runes are stronger by gameplay mechanics. After all, that would make the Rune of Life and Death (Kills several people at once) pretty sucky in terms of overall power as compared to the Rune of Punishment (destroys large invasion fleets).

The ability of the rune bearer and their familiarity with the rune puts too great a variable into this in order to ascertain whether any one True Rune could be considered more powerful than the other.

That and I think I remember reading somewhere here that they're supposed to be equal in one form or another.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[TruePerception]

Sorry to backtrack but, I do believe that a heavy object (island) can in fact move. take a table and paper weight, for example. If you grab two legs of a table and shake it, tha paper weight is very likely not to be in the same spot where it started. If the island were close enough to the edge of one tectonic plate when it rubbed against another plate, this would cause the plate to shake (more so than our table) and could very likely move the island. If the island was on two plates during such an event, it would either sink (if the ocean floor sank), rise (if the ocean floor started to rise, a la the creation of many mountain ranges in the real world), or would be pushed out of the way of the epicenter, either further down the fault or on to one specific plate. Also it being on the fault instead of just near it, would create the possible occurance of volcanic activity. Wasn't there atleast one volcano in SIV (it's been a while, so I forgot)?

Heavy True Rune usage (or even Rune Cannon usage) could also bring about the moving effect that natural disasters could. Possibly even events in SV could have caused this shift (purely speculation, though). And, I may have just missed this but, when is this map supposed to depict? What time frame?

Also, it wasn't Geddoe who forced out the True Lightning Rune, it was the True Fire Rune. Then True Lightning was forced to find a new host. Geddoe merely accepted the True Fire Rune, he never actually rejected True Lightning. I guess by this token, Geddoe may not even have known that he couldn't possess two True Runes.
_________________


Daily Funny Award for May 1st, 2008

[Kalidor]

I think that John Layfield brings up very good points about the powers of the True Runes. Much of that power comes from the ability of the bearer to properly wield the True Rune, as well as how much mastery they have over the will of the Rune itself.

There are a few examples of this that I have picked up, scattered throughout the game. The first and most obvious is that the newly appointed bearer of a True Rune has very little ability with the Rune as reflected by game mechanics. Now, I wouldn't take game mechanics as the determining factor of a Rune's power, as John Layfield said, but when people first aquire a True Rune, they only have access to the lowest level of that Rune's power, ie: the Rune's level one spell. As the bearer continues to hold the Rune, their familiarity with it increases and the power they can access through it slowly grows, reflected in the fact that the bearer gains new spells. I seem to recall reading something about an encounter between Luc and Geddoe where Luc says something to the effect of Geddoe has great skill with his Rune or is closely tied to it or something. Again, my not playing Suikoden III myself leaves me in the dark for this.

Now, perhaps in times of extreme need the Rune can be called upon to do things of manificent power, even by an inexperienced wielder, as seems to be the case with the Rune of Punishment when it was used to destroy the Kooluk fleet. We have to keep in mind, however, that this action was also in line with the desires of the Rune of Punishment itself. The Rune wants to sap the life force from its bearer, and by accessing the full power of the Rune, the Rune also achieved its desire of feeding off that person's life force. I believe this was the case with the Queen of Obel, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

An example of powerful mastery of a True Rune by a longtime bearer is seen with the example of Ted at Seek Valley. Even though the Rune of Life and Death was currently borne by another, Ted's connection with the Rune was so great that he was able to call upon it to consume his own soul. Now I don't know if Ted would have been able to use the Rune to, say, blast Windy off the cliffside. I am almost certain he would actually need to have possession of the Rune to make that happen. However, the fact that he could, in essence, use a True Rune that was not attached to his body is a sign of immense knowledge and mastery of the Rune.

In Suikoden III, is the mastery that a person holds over a True Rune reflected in the game itself? Perhaps not in the mechanics of it, but in the storyline? Of the five True Rune bearers in the game, I would speculate that Sasari and Luc would have the most potent control, as they were vessels specifically designed to hold the True Runes that they bear. However, Geddoe might be approaching the same level of mastery that they have as well. He has held his rune for quite some time and would have had many years to get to know it's depths and powers, as well as overcome the inherent will of the Rune (though we seem to have agreed that the will of the elemental True Runes might be somewhat weaker than others.) Because he has borne it so long, is he reflected as being able to do things with his Rune that the newer bearers, Hugo and Chris, are not?

[Himuro]

When I compare Rune of Life and Death to Rune of Punishment, and finally both to Rune of Beginning, I see that they all have drawbacks but a different kind of power. With the exception of maybe the the True Powers, each True Rune has some sort of curse. I don't see why one would be more powerful than the other.

With Rune of Life and Death it kills those that are close to you. Rune of Punishment slowly absorbs your life, memories, and soul (though I don't understand the Atonement part). Rune of Beginning forces two close friend to eventually fight and kill one another. Blue Moon Rune curses the individual with a hungry thirst. But then, at the same time, as we all know each True Rune has it's unique feature or power. Power in this case is subjective. Sierra can make mass zombie armies if she wanted to, Bright Shield has very strong healing powers, True Fire can set things to a scorching ring of crimson. They each have their goals and unique features, and are strong depending on the situation, and as someone said before, it depends on the Rune Bearer's. Would True Fire's fire spells evaporate True Water's water magic? We don't know. Personally, I like to go the destiny route. Depending on the given situation, it is one's destiny and willingness to change it, not the power of the True Rune. Atleast, that's my belief on the matter after fighting a True Rune incarnate practically every final boss in the series.
_________________
She knows stuff.

[Vextor]

Actually, only half of the last bosses are incarnations of True Runes. Suikoden 1's last boss was not an incarnation (it was a morphed Barbarossa) , and neither was Suikoden 4's last boss (which was just a summoned tree).

[Himuro]

Yeah, which is why I said practically. :P That dang tree. I was more or less talking about SII and III.
_________________
She knows stuff.

[Admiral Ackbar]

SUIKODEN WORLD MAP.

ON-TOPIC-NESS.

DISCUSS.

***Edit***

BLUE THUNDER SMASH.
_________________

[TruePerception]

I believe that Ted was able to make the Soul Eater take his life, even though he was not bearing it at the time, due to the fact that he had a strong connection with the it, not because he had any particular level of mastery over it. It was more like an emotional bond than Ted enforcing his will against the Rune of Life and Death.
_________________


Daily Funny Award for May 1st, 2008

[AA]

That and the fact that Ted tells you that he and the rune are still conected, its the same way that Sierra can seal the Blue Moon runes powers, it was with them so long that they have a higher rate of mastery, therfore it must see them in some light as still being there masters.

[Scott]

Naybe those True rune's came to respect their bearers and regard them as more than a body they use to enforce their will? I mean, if the Soul Eater has enough sentience to manipulate things so those close to it's bearer die, why could it not be sentient enough to grow to respect Ted.

What with Tir having used the Soul eater for such a short period of time, more so when compared to the three hundred years Ted used the rune's power for, I would assume Ted hd enough Mastery to still comand it to some extent. That's assuming the rune wouldn't just take the opportunity to gobble up yet another soul.

As for Sierra and the Blue Moon rune. I don't know. To me it always seems that Neclord was abusing it's power and hardly using it for it's intended. Maybe it knew that Sierra would bear it as more than a tool for imortality and just opted to more willingly serve her.

...I really hope that made sense.