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World Map-Thread Spawned True Rune Talk
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: World Map-Thread Spawned True Rune Talk Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Perhaps, but that would mean that the Sindar were wandering with the Rune of Change prior to the mythical battle which created said rune.

Either way the original hypothesis, that the Sindar wandered a Pangeatic world before some sudden and violent shift in plate tetonics, creating several continents, doesn't seem to wash.
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Alkazar

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmmm... then perhaps the Sword and Shield legend is just that - legend. The Sindar seem to be a pretty advanced race, which is yet another reason a thousand year old world doesn't make sense - we know they fell before the establishment of Harmonia (unless there's something I've missed), and they had to be quite advanced to have technology to seal a True Rune within someone. And since it's referred to as technology (and then as 'their magic' - once again proving that advanced enough technology can be considered magic) , they have to had developed to it over time perhaps in an attempt to prevent themselves from suffering the curse of the Change. If they truly could have wandered a Pangeatic world, and they're known to have had great technology... it is entirely plausible that they caused the split? Eh, it's just speculation with little backing, but it's still within plausibility (especially since the cultures that developed afterwards could have interpreted whatever strife they caused into the legend). Perhaps the Change didn't like being sealed...
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd consider it a distinct possiblity that the story of the battle between Sword and Shield is a representation of some Sindar crisis, presumably also involving Yuber and Pesmerga in some fashion.

However, we may be underestimating the amount of sheer energy needed to take one large continent and literally shread it into pieces and scatter it across the world. Especially from a technological aspect.

That said, the idea of the world being Pangeatic in nature before some sort of incident creating the continents and then being regarded as the creation of the world as known in Suikoden is an interesting one and would wrap up the loose end at least about Luc's "1,000 year old world" quip.
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Alkazar

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Perhaps the amount of energy needed would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of a True Rune going berserk? The Elemental Runes are regarded as the weakest of the True Runes (both with their willpower and the amount of power they wield), and the Fire Rune still essentially exploded when the Flame Champion lost control of it. The Sindar obviously researched technology involving sealing away a True Rune and removing it from individuals... Between their own technology and the power of the Change if it released it's power should be enough to crack the world - the Rune of Change is one of the most powerful True Runes, so it unleashing it's full potential could be an unimaginable amount of energy. If destroying the Wind Rune would have been enough to demolish a chunk of a land, perhaps Change is capable of doing that without destroying itself?

Punishment from the Gods = the breaking of the world in many cultures.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I really like where this thread is going.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

thanks to me :P
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Kalidor

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Perhaps the amount of energy needed would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of a True Rune going berserk? The Elemental Runes are regarded as the weakest of the True Runes (both with their willpower and the amount of power they wield), and the Fire Rune still essentially exploded when the Flame Champion lost control of it.


I would be very interested to know, Alkazar, where you received the information about the relative powers of the True Runes. I have never seen reference to that in any of the Suikoden games (though admittedly I've only played Suikoden and Suikoden II) nor on any of the web sites devoted to Suikoden that I visit. If you could tell me where this information came from, be it Suikoden III or some other legitimate publication from Konami, I'd be very much obliged. As well, if you could list the heirarchy of the True Runes, in terms of power, I would like to see that very much as well. I'm only interested if it's actually cannon material though, not if it is player or fan speculation.

Also, I haven't seen or heard anything about the relative wills of the True Runes either. It is quite obvious that some True Runes are possessed of quite strong wills. The Rune of Life and Death, for example, will almost inevitably take away those that are close to the bearer, before the bearer gains mastery of it, that is. The Rune of Beginning drives the bearers of the Bright Shield and the Black Sword components to fight each other until the Rune's will is completed, and the two halves merge. From what I've read about Suikoden IV, it seems that the Rune of Punishment is possessed of a very strong will as well, slowly but surely devouring the life force of the bearer, unless the bearer can survived the Rune long enough for it to move into its attonment phase.

That is something that has puzzled me about the Elemental True Runes in fact, what would their will be? I see them more as forces of nature, and I'm not sure what the desire of Water is, for example. Is the desire of these True Runes fleshed out in Suikoden III? Damn me for not having a PS2, I want so much to play Suikoden's III, IV, Tactics, and now V too!
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Alkazar

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The highest power Rune is, by default, the Rune of Beginning - it has the power to judge, begin and end the world. This is touched upon in the description of the Rune itself. It's a neutral Rune, I'd assume, balanced between Order and Chaos, as it can both create (order) and destroy (chaos).

Then there are the Runes that are the head of each side - order and chaos, Circle and Change. It seems by their very nature that these two Runes have the ability to alter the world in great ways, and thus are possess the greatest amount of power. Aside from these two, the Runes seem to be split relatively even between Chaos and Order, and there's no real gauges of their power.

However, when we come to the Elemental Runes, it's touched upon in Suikoden III with their relative strength being low. They're also shown as having low will, as the bearer chooses to accept the Rune, and Luc is able to relatively easy rip them from their host. The Runes also make no attempts to protect themselves, and even when Luc tries to destroy the Wind Rune, the Rune still follows his commands when he calls down its incarnation.

The will of certain Runes is very strong. For example, the Beast Rune, when awakened, does what it wants and moves of it's own free will; when the Beast Rune left Harmonia for L'Renouille, Harmonia covered it up as a gift. Leon and Jowy did what they could to hold the power of the Rune back until Riou arrived and defeated the incarnation, sealing the Rune again (and I do believe it fled LRenouille after that). The Rune of Punishment is incredibly strong willed, and possesses, seemingly, an intelligence to know what hosts to select - after Cray cuts off his hand, it immediately goes to his son out of other potential hosts nearby; it could corrupt a child easier into using its power. And the Souleater possesses a strong will, enforcing itself on the real world until the bearer takes command. The Beginning, as you mentioned, drives its bearers to fight in an attempt to reconstruct itself.

And yes, like I said, the Elemental Runes seem to have low will. They follow their bearers, no matter who it might be or whatever their will might be. They don't truly possess any desire, as they're easily sealed away and comanded (in fact, Geddoe can forcibly remove the Lightning Rune from himself to take the Fire Rune), and can be forced to take hosts.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I thought they said in the game AND in the manga that the true powers are some of the more powerful true runes as they control the main forces of nature..?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i got a question let's say someone has a true rune can that person hold the night rune as
a weapon? :?
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uhhh.... Can we get an admin/mod to redirect this and the previous posts to the appropriate thread? It hasn't been directly addressed in Suikoden but it could be possible. Windy used two attached to her, so it may be possible to use one attached and another detached but controlled. I doubt the Star Dragon Sword would stand for it though. Knowing it's personality, it's got pride and wouldn't think it needed it's power supplemented in any way by another True Rune.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Holy knight PLEASE edit your avatar
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

so if a ture rune breaks it effects the world
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, a powerful force happens. But see the thing is, we don't know what would really happen if a true rune "broke". Do we? Anyways, this is irrelevent.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

in suikoden 3 in the end of the game the flame champoin and luc are in a black and
white world and what happen to everyone did they die?
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