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Thief
Truth
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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My thoughts:
1. The less sidequests, the better.
2. Character development sidequests are preferable to the likes of bonus dungeons and/or ultimate weapons.
3. Mundane mini-games like FFX's Butterfly Catching are definite no-no.
My favourite sidequests in a roleplaying game?
Gathering the 108 Stars of Destiny, of course. |
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John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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I love optional side-quests. The more the better. I'm not going to complain if some character development is taken care of there, that just gives me an added incentive to play.
Hai Yo's Cook-Off's are a perfect example of that. His side-quest took care of all his character development and it was done as touchingly as a plot involving a clan of chefs attempting to take over the world with a really tasty recipe can be.
Clive's quest was optional. Under no time obligation to recruit Clive himself so it's obviously a side-quest for those who have an interest in the characters. If you don't, of course you're not going to like it.
The St. Loa Knights heading to the North Cavern in Suikoden III was a side-quest as far as I can remember. You didn't have to do it and it contained a lot of the development for those three characters. Does that suddenly become worthless just because you weren't pushed there?
Besides, trying to cram in every characters development into the main plot is unrealistic and has become a 'device' over the years. 'Oh noes, our quest has taken me to my hometown which I swore never to return to! What revelations await us here?!'.
If you're on some half-baked quest to save the world, there shouldn't be much time for verbal therapy in the main plot. Which leaves it in the hands of, oh yes indeed, the side-quests.
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Oh my God, that's badass! Oh man, the highest I heard of was about 350 from some guy on IGN, but that's just nuts! Even with my 125 hours and killer characters, I still have about twice as many as most of my friends who played it.
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I find it sad my self, but 700+ hours is the total time spend, my last final play file is 500+, what is even more sad however is that I'm still playing and I'm not done, I wouldn't be surprised if I reached 700+ on that play file and 900+ total...
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Dark Cloud — Demon Shaft: A tall, 100 level dungeon with the ultimate weapon at the top. So simple, yet so classic.
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Oh, you shouldn't have reminded me of that now, I feel so pi**ed, I went in that dungeon up to level 60+, and then I read in a stupid magazine (I think it was the British Games Master) that you don't get anything at all when you reach the top, after I read that I stopped...
When I found out later that you even fought a new powerful boss I was furious, *beeb* magazine *beeb* made me leave that cool sidequest *beeb* them.
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Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time — The Biggoron Sword Sidequest and the Gerudo training ground were badass.
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By that you also reminded me that *beeb* black eel like fish you gotta fish on that minigame as an extra, that is the only thing I haven't done in Ocarina of Time, *beeb* that fish. But I promise to my honor one day I will fish you, you damned thing!
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Parallax
Fighting 181st
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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You forgot a third type of sidequest which does, in fact, exist - tying off an optional loose end. An example is Final Fantasy 6, where the second half of the game consists entirely of optional loose-end type sidequests. You never have to see half of your own party again if you don't want to gather them, nor do you have to finish your exploration of any of the character development which does begin as part of the main quest.
I personally don't see an issue with having sidequests that develop certain characters better. If you want to give the player a choice on which characters to use in their party, making optional sidequests which explore character background are the best way to go, since they allow you to pick the characters you care to learn about, and then do it. I personally hate characters forcing themselves into my party in any game ever. I want to punch Gremio and Nanami in the face, but that's a side issue.
Power item quests, on the other hand, I tend not to care much for. I think that RPG games are too easy to begin with, 9 out of 10 times, and I don't think there's any reason at all to try and make them easier. From personal experience, I hate trying to tell a story about how challenging I found a certain part of X game, and how that's so rare in the genre, and then have the person I'm telling the story to tell me how incredibly easy it was, because they got the Sword of Doom two hours of play earlier.
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| If you're on some half-baked quest to save the world, there shouldn't be much time for verbal therapy in the main plot. Which leaves it in the hands of, oh yes indeed, the side-quests. |
Granted, it doesn't necessarily make sense to go off on a hunt for a character's personal demons while you're involved in world-saving operations. However, as John Layfield also said, trying to weave character development into the main plot for any character but the very central ones is not an easy task if you have more characters in the RPG than you've got party slots. I think sidequests can be important, and fun, but it also completely depends on the game.
I thought Lunar: Silver Star Story was great, and there weren't any sidequests to speak of that I can recall. Lack of sidequests certainly doesn't ruin the game for me.
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Himuro
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I prefer sidequests like Chocobo Hot and Cold and Chcobo Breeding in general myself. |
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Arcana
The Engineers
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Himuro wrote: |
| I prefer sidequests like Chocobo Hot and Cold and Chcobo Breeding in general myself. |
Those are also mini-games. I don't know if a distinction should be made between them, because they're not quite the same thing.
As for Clive's quest, the reason I disliked it was because of the time limit. Rush, rush, rush to the next section. You need to know the game inside out. That kind of thing. I want to see Clive's little story, but I don't want to play the game's introduction three or four times so I know it well enough to get the times right. Sorry, I don't have 40 hours to burn trying to do it. If it was just a matter of bringing the characters to a location, sure, but the time limit kind of burns the bridge for me.
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Himuro
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Not really. They were sidequests because they were optional and expansive, just like sidequests are. A sidequest doesn't necessarily have to be a hidden dungeon. By your logic, recruiting characters in Suikoden games aren't sidequests, they're mini games. Breeding chocobos allowed you to get secret stuff, thus they're sidequests.
My favorite sidequests:
Deep Sea Research Lab - FFVIII
Chocobo breeding - FFVII
Wutai sidequest - FFVII
Chocobo Hot and Cold - FFIX
Mognet - FFIX
Everything presented - FFX-2
recruiting characters in Suikoden games
Getting certain characters to certain stats to send to Vanhalla - Valkyrie Profile
Resurrecting Crono - Chrono Trigger |
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Parallax
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Arcana wrote: |
As for Clive's quest, the reason I disliked it was because of the time limit. Rush, rush, rush to the next section. You need to know the game inside out. That kind of thing. |
I agree with this. Without using an FAQ specifically designed to tell you how ot do Clive's quest fast enough, and without a certain familiarity with Suikoden II, it's entirely too difficult to run through. One nice thing about sidequests in general is that they can be completed at the same leisure that you can take with the main plot of a game, choosing when you want to embark on them, and how. In fact, many sidequests don't even appear until you have high mobility, blinking mirror and Viki in Suikoden, or an airship in Final Fantasy, or what have you.
As it stands, Clive's quest is more of a novelty, both in the way it's presented and its structure...but not something that I'd seriously consider doing. In fact, despite having played Suikoden II a couple of times over the years, I've never completed all of Clive's quest, only the first couple sections, after which I couldn't keep up, and therefore gave up.
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Fundertaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Man, I loved that sidequest! I never liked mailmen (and I still don't), but that sidequest was just great. Why? *insert Lex Luger "I DON'T KNOW!"*
I like sidequests, as long as they have any reason to be there. There some that are just out of everything (butterfly catching in FFX and most of the sidequests in D&D's based RPG's nowadays) and that usually tend to give you just an item or some more money. However, there are some sidequests that give you just that but are very well done (remember the Art Thief sidequest in Neverwinter Nights which you could do for the owner of the tavern? It was amusing, since it gave you more background on the higher classes' life within that universe) that give you more story, backstory or in-depht, about the world you're in or some characters (oh, just remembered! Still in NWN, when you had an henchman and leveled up he told you more of his story. Tomi Undergalows' was just great!).
I like secret dungeons also, but only if there's any reason they're there (even if the justification would be among the lines "you defeated the final boss, but one even stronger apeared in the end of this dungeon. Defeat him!") and are challenging or with progressive upgrade in difficulty.
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Lord Vader
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not big on playing RPG's. In fact, I have only completed one RPG. That RPG was Front Mission 4. I have only played a few other RPG's. From my expierience RPG's can be made and don't need side quest. Front Mission 4 had no side quest unless you count the training missions as side quest(I don't). I would personally not like side quest unless they could be completed without much diversion from the actual game quest.
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fuji
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Parallax wrote: |
| You forgot a third type of sidequest which does, in fact, exist - tying off an optional loose end. An example is Final Fantasy 6, where the second half of the game consists entirely of optional loose-end type sidequests. You never have to see half of your own party again if you don't want to gather them, nor do you have to finish your exploration of any of the character development which does begin as part of the main quest. |
I would consider those as character specific quests. You are getting a character back, finding out what they were up to during your beauty sleep. That is just a differing opinion on a definition though, and we could sit here and argue definitions forever.
I've always considered Mini-Games separate from sidequests as they usually lack the quest part. Ranch Racing in Suikoden 3 was just a game with some prizes. Quests usually involve doing one of two things; Get something or deliver something. In Clive's, you are in fact delivering Clive. In Tir's quest, you are getting Tir. For this reason, I consider Hai Yo's cook off as a mini-game, a damn fine one, but a quest... well not exactly.
I should've written what I define a sidequest by in my original post to add a bit of perspective to it.
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Arcana
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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By definiton, there isn't such thing as an optional side quest. A side quest IS optional.
As for tediousness like the FFX lightning-dodging and butterfly catching? I think those are fair game. You get hardcore rewards for the hardcore players (the ultimate weapons). If you're totally awesome and hardcore, you get the best reward. Everyone else can safely skip them and not really miss anything.
I would be pissed though if you had to race Chocobos with the 0.00 second timer before you got the secret Tidus/Yuna scene or something. (By the way, I managed to race this game a few thousand times. My best time? 0.01. Yes, 0.01. I was sooooo mad, and I never played the race again).
My philosophy:
1) Sidequests that reveal storyline bits should be fairly straightforward to complete, or, at least, not require you to do superhuman tasks to do (like racing chocobos to get 0.00, or racing through the first 20 hours of a game in 10).
2) Superhuman sidequests should result in superhuman rewards. If you do a super-hard sidequest (huge bonus dungeons, super-dexterious tasks) then you should get a really awesome reward to go with that.
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Kurt Angle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Final Fantasy VI, after the start of Kefka's rise, had a ton of side quests. The whole game up after that part, exept for a handful of things, was side quests. Mainly to get the summons, defeat the dragons (which got you a summon) and recruiting the characters. Heck, even side characters, I would count that as side quests too.
The Shinny Medals/Tiny Medals from the Dragon Warrior/Quest games are among one of my favorites. That and the recuitment for characters in Saga Frontier. Now that recruitment could get tricky. Too bad Blue wouldn't join any parties.
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dark-knight
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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side quests are okay for me. that is if they are OPTIONAL. side quests that force you to play through them is tiring if you think about all the time that youre gonna be wasting on that quest that you should be using on completing the main story. a particular rpg that has loads of side quests is radiata stories. that work system in that game sucks because you have to play through them for the story to advance. thats why i never finished that game. side quests all in all should be up to the player on whether or not he should play through it or not.
by the way, those side quests that gives depth to characters in the story, they should just blend it with the main plot and not make it as a subplot as to avoid making it as a filler or for lifespan extensions.
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Arcana
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kurt Angle wrote: |
| Final Fantasy VI, after the start of Kefka's rise, had a ton of side quests. The whole game up after that part, exept for a handful of things, was side quests. Mainly to get the summons, defeat the dragons (which got you a summon) and recruiting the characters. Heck, even side characters, I would count that as side quests too. |
It's possible to beat the game with only Setzer, Celes, and Edgar in your party. Those are the only characters you are required to recruit. If you do this, you have to send one character on each path in the tower, which can get tough when you face those guys who freeze you. If you get frozen - game over!
I did end up beating the game eventually with only the three members of my party. It was slow (since you don't have enough slots to equip sprint shoes).
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