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Are sidequests important to RPG's?
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fuji




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Are sidequests important to RPG's? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How important are sidequests to an RPG to you?

With the release of Grandia III, I've read many people and reviews claiming that the lack of side quests are one of many things that contribute to the game not living up to expectations. GameSpot had this to say:
Quote:
The Bad: It's short; no crazy side quests or extras to speak of.

Sure GameSpot isn't the most accurate source for RPG reviews, but they do represent a lot of the average gamer's prespective.

Sidequests tend to come in two flavours. Either they are character specific and expand the development of said character. The second type leads to a great item, usually one of the strongest in the game.

For the most part, I dislike sidequests but admit I am probably in the minority. For the character specific side quests they are in my opinion a lazy way for a developer to add depth to a character. By making the player stop the main quest for 30 minutes or up to 2 hours in one character's quest is odd. What about that character makes them so special that we can stop what we're doing, stop the main story to explore one character's history. Why couldn't that same development be done during the story, or at least, along side it (such as Clive's in Suikoden 2). The great item-type sidequests are just as bad. The item serves no purpose other than as a gameplay mechanic to make the game easier. Why interrupt the flow of the main story by offering the player some uber weapon that can only be achieved by stopping what they were doing and going on some fed-ex or fetch quest.

I've seen polls on a lot of web sites that state mini-games are an integral part of RPG games and people want them regardless (another topic entirely). Is this true for sidequests as well? Are sidequests one of the defining features for RPG's? Does the lack of sidequests make a game worse than a game with lots of them?

[edit: To separate what a mini-game is and a sidequest is. Sidequests usually involve doing one of two things; Get something or deliver something. Clive's sidequest involved delivering Clive to various places within specified times. /]

What are your thoughts?
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Last edited by fuji on Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sidequests are either great or awful to me, that all depends on how sidequests are being implemented.

Personally, I do enjoy sidequests, and I don't consider sidequests for characters to be a lazy way to add depth. But this is largely based on 1 thing. That sidequests must be optional. Sidequests only become problematic to me when it's not optional and disrupts the flow of the storyline by forcing the player to do something that is totally unrelated to the story.
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Camus the Noble

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I like well thought-out sidequests, and sidequests really are an important part of RPGs. Not essential, but important.

Clive's Sidequest is a very good example of the well thought-out sidequest. Too often, sidequests are just crap put in games to hold the attention of the gamer.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Camus the Noble wrote:
I like well thought-out sidequests, and sidequests really are an important part of RPGs. Not essential, but important.

Clive's Sidequest is a very good example of the well thought-out sidequest. Too often, sidequests are just crap put in games to hold the attention of the gamer.


Clive's sidequest was crap. I'm not about to try to pay 14 hours of a game over and over and over again so I can hit the right timers and talk to the right people and magically get some silly dialog between two minor characters.

A good sidequest are the bonus dungeons in the Star Ocean games, which serve as "extending the game just because you liked playing it, but if you hated it, you really don't have to play it", random bonus scenes you can get by bringing the right characters back to the right areas (Suikoden III's bath scenes and Final Fantasy X did this, and so did Ogre Battle 64), and honestly, the underwater plane in FF7 was also pretty darned cool, since there was so much fun equipment in there.

I don't like long, tedious sidequests that you need to do to expand on character storylines. All of the long, tedious sidequests should reward the player with bonus weapons and items that, in the end, are totally optional. DEFINITELY, the super long, tedious sidequest should not interfere with me getting the best, canon ending of the game.
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Camus the Noble

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Arcana wrote:
random bonus scenes you can get by bringing the right characters back to the right areas


What is Clive's Quest if not random bonus scenes you get by bringing the right characters back to the right areas? The only difference is a time limit that is very easy to stay ahead of to anyone who knows the game. And the Clive sidequest is exactly the same as the bonus dungeons, in that if you don't want to, you don't have to do it. A sidequest should be judged by what it offers to people who want to play it. That's why they are called sidequests. They're not a part of the main game.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sidequests help make a game for me. If it doesn't have much side stuff I'm not going to enjoy it that much. This is why I love Suikoden so much, the emphasis on sidequests.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

if games didn't have sidequest in them,then the game would be a little boring.but not all sidequests are fun.i like them cause it makes the game a lot longer.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Black Pesmerga wrote:
That sidequests must be optional.


Took the words right out of my mouth. I hate minigames or sidequests (same thing in my mind anymore) that are just put right down in the middle of an important quest.

I wouldn't be sad if there were no sidequests in a game. I'd much rather have that than have to do chocobo races or the like before I can advance. I prefer the character sidequests over the great item variety too.

All in all, they're not necessary, but done correctly (which few are) they can quite a bit to the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would say that sidequests are kind of like a multiplication of the enjoyment factor of a game. What I mean is that if you enjoy the game, the gameplay, the storyline, the whatever, then a sidequest that reveals more characterization or just allows you to play for longer, and use new devices, and will add to the enjoyment a game holds for you.

On the flip side, if you don't like a game then the sidequests won't be 1) taken advantage of because you don't want to play the game any longer (in which case I woundn't understand why you would play it) or 2) would be a source of annoyance because it just prolongs your agony.

In the majority of RPG's that I have played I have found that sidequests are excellent, though occationally tedious and difficult they are an asset to the games I have played. Zelda Ocarina of Time in particular.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with Camus The Noble's take that Clive's sidequest was really well done. Not once did I have to to a location that's only purpose was for the sidequest. Not once was I forced to stop the main plot in order to go travel around the world (like the Tir quest in Suikoden 2 which I liked only because Tir kicks ass).
Arcana wrote:
A good sidequest are the bonus dungeons [snip]

Bonus dungeons are interesting, although it could be argued they aren't sidequests since they usually lack the quest part. They are only good in games with good gameplay systems. Ones like Star Ocean 3 which you mentioned is where it works great. But imagine Xenosaga 1 with a bonus dungeon. Not quite as good imo. Therefore it could be argued that a bonus dungeon is only as good as the battle/gameplay system of the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sidequests make the game fun. Too much sidequests will kill the game though. If you want an example of an overload of sidequests see FFX-2.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm probably going to have to say that sidequests are one of the most enjoyable parts of an RPG. Even if they seem annoying, they've usually always ended up playing some important part in the long run.

After playing Shadow Hearts 2, I'm going to say that I would have shot myself for not doing the sidequests. It added a whole new dimension to the game that would otherwise be missed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I love sidequests, they make my day, and I must use that word whenever I play a game regardless of genre, completing a game 100% is not enough for me, completing the sidequests becomes 200%.

However some of them conflict with my obsession, I currently have up to 700+ hours on Final Fantasy X and that is because of sidequests.

Namely fighting Kottos over and over and over and over and........

That's bad game design, I do it anyway because I'm really messed up but I can see why most people won't.

I'm forced to fight that dude so I can get Spheres so I can boost my Aeon stats, which takes a very long time, as my total time spend gives up.

I will really be ecstatically happy if I could do any side quests I wanted at the end of the game...

Please developers I beg of you, let me do all those sidequests at the end, please, I become very stressed when I'm about to play an RPG for that reason.

You see some sidequest happen mid game on certain portions (think most PS1 era Final Fantasies) and if you don't know about them you may miss them, so I have three choices when playing an RPG.

Start the game with a guide in hand to get all the sidequests as they happen, and spoil the main game on the way.

Play the game once with no worries and then simply play it again from the beginning with all the necessary information.

Try looking for the sidequests your self while you play running the risk of missing some obscure sidequest somewhere and having that deep feeling of been incomplete...

So what I'm I going to do?

Well I'm probably going to do the sidequests to most RPG's when I'm an old retired man with nothing better to do, because other wise, either I'll be playing games 24-7 or I'll go mad...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To me, there is rarely a sidequest that isn't a good sidequest. Why all the hate for the sidequests? They're called sidequests because they have nothing to do with the story, and are optional. While I said I never met a sidequest I didn't like, if I did, I'd just avoid it.

In my view, the sidequest is absolutely essential. I'm a very romantic person (ideologically, less so literally), and can lose myself in a game like you wouldn't believe. I know games can take anyone here away, especially a good one, but everything shuts down when I get a great game. Case in point; When I procrastinated hardcore two weeks ago, stupidest The Cable Guy I've ever done, all thanks to Dragon Quest VIII, which I didn't do any sidequests for (save for the good ending), but after 95 hours am just burned out on the game, but will go back to it. I like anything that prolongs my experience in a game, something that can give a ton of replayability value to a game, because next to story and artistic style, I value playing time in an RPG.

Some of my Favorite Sidequests:
Dark Cloud — Demon Shaft: A tall, 100 level dungeon with the ultimate weapon at the top. So simple, yet so classic.
Final Fantasy III — Star-Shaped Mountain range: Don't even know if it qualifies, but I'm pretty sure you can beat Kefka without Locke, but he gives you a bunch of good stuff, and you can get the Ragnarok Magicite eventually because of it.
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time — The Biggoron Sword Sidequest and the Gerudo training ground were badass.
Chrono Cross — The Mastermune is short but sweet, and you get to hear Prisoners of Fate, which is kewl.

Arenegeth says:
Quote:

However some of them conflict with my obsession, I currently have up to 700+ hours on Final Fantasy X and that is because of sidequests.


Oh my God, that's badass! Oh man, the highest I heard of was about 350 from some guy on IGN, but that's just nuts! Even with my 125 hours and killer characters, I still have about twice as many as most of my friends who played it.

So those Sidequests, yeah, they're pretty cool...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sidequests aren't necessary imo, but they can be so ingenious. But I don't like sidequests, which are only to essential in order to get an item. Because these quests are often time-consuming an sometimes even boring. Sidequests, which are rather mini-games (like cooking in Suikoden2 e.g.) are some funny stuff. The best thing a sidequest could do is to give a deeper insight of the whole story, but this is only what I think is important.
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