Dragon Knights And Anne McCaffrey

TruePerception · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: Dragon Knights And Anne McCaffrey

I don't know how many people at this message board have read any of the books by Anne McCaffrey(sp?) about the world of PERN, but it has always seemed very similar to the dragons society of Suikoden, especially after playing Suikoden 2, since the only on I read was The White Dragon. I originally noticed the whole Dragon Knights/Dragon Riders parallel and the fact that they both have a stage of Impressions between young humans and dragons as they are being hatched, but in S2, when Futch finds Bright, it is noted that he and Humphrey had never heard of a white dragon before, which is the same case in the PERN books. It was even suggested in the book I read that that dragon (I forget its name, its been a while since I read that book) would probably gain color as it got older. Has anyone else noticed this connection? Does anyone know if this author was a point of inspiration for Murayama?

Kalidor · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject:

Interesting topic, TruePerception. I think that there are definitly parallels to be drawn between Anne McCaffrey's Pern and the Dragon Knights of Suikoden. I am fairly well read within the Pern world, having read all of the main Pern novels and the ones about the dragon lizards and that bardess as well.

The roles of the Dragon riders within the world is vastly different, of course. In Pern, they are basically the protecters of the world, flying up to burn off the threadfall. The Dragon Knights in Suikoden are nothing like this at all, basically an autonomous organization that is answerable only to themselves. When the Scarlet Moon Empire ruled the Toran region they remained autonomous because of their military prowess, occasionally lending their strength to the Empire. They do hold allegiance with the Toran Republic now, though are still autonomous I believe, and the diplomatic ties between the two are likely quite tight, seeing as the Dragon Knights were of vast help to the Liberation army, as well as Joshua using the Dragon Rune to help banish Windy's summoned army. With Lepant at the head of the government I imagine that ties remain quite close.

The real similarities seem to be in the dragons themselves. In Pern there are several different colours of dragons, with a heirarchy of sorts. The dragons of Suikoden seem to be of varying colours as well, but I don't think this means as much as it does in the Pern world. Milia's dragon Ember is a red one for example, and I believe that Joshua's was of a different colour, whereas the leading male dragon among the riders on Pern is always a bronze, and the leading female's dragon is always gold.

The biggest similarity seems to be in the sort of bonding process that the dragon's have with their riders. In Pern the baby dragons immediately bond with their rider upon hatching. This bond is a strong empathic and telepathic bond, to the point where the dragon and rider can even speak to each other. The death of the rider or dragon is often enough to drive the other party so far into grief that they kill themselves. It's never stated how deep the bond between dragon and rider goes in the Suikoden world, but a knight that loses his dragon is cast out of the dragon knights. There is grief, as evidenced when Futch loses Black, but it is not insurmountable. However, when Addie, another dragon knight, is killed, her dragon actually turns into a zombie dragon out of grief. This would seem to indicate that the bond is indeed quite strong.

The abilities of the dragons between the two settings are also quite different. Dragons within the Suiko world seem to have the ability to produce breath attacks of some kind, though the animation in Suikoden 1 seems to make it rather ambiguous just what it is they can breathe. I think in the Suikogaidens the renegade dragon that Futch and company face down breathes fire, but I am not certain. Whatever it is, it seems to be a natural ability. The dragons in Pern, however, do not have the natural ability to breathe fire, or rather they don't have the ability to do so unaided. Instead, they must eat some kind of sulphuric rock which has a reaction in their stomachs that allows them to breath fire. The Pern dragons also have a unique ability that allows them to somehow shift from one place to the other on the world instantly. Eventually it is discovered that this power can even be used to transport between different periods of time. Suikoden dragons, as far as I know, have the ability to fly but no phase shifting abilities.

In the world of Pern there is only one white dragon ever recorded, just as it is in the case of Bright in Suikoden. However, the white dragon in Pern (can't remember the name) is a runt of the litter that wasn't supposed to bond with anyone and only did by some kind of mistake. It wasn't expected to live either, but did. Bright, on the other hand, seems to be quite strong and fit and not a runt by any stretch. I don't know that his white colouring gives him any abilities that other dragons do not have.

All in all, I think that the Dragon Knights of Suikoden owe a lot of their ideas to Anne McCaffrey's Pern. They have taken things such as the bond and adapted them to their own purposes. They aren't the same entity though, having been customized for the purposes of the Suikoden world. They are my favourite faction though, with Futch being my favourite character, and I would love to learn more about them in future chapters of Suikoden.

TruePerception · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject:

It just came back to me, in The White Dragon, the dragon's name was Ruth, His rider was Jaxom, and the shifting you refered to was called "timing it". It does seem that the connection was certainly drawn between PERN and the Suiko dragons, but unfortunately, we may never know if this was Murayama's intent or even his inspiration, but I definately like to think so.
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kuwaizair · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject:

It could be inspiration, but I heard that McCaffy is very militent on people making rip-offs of "Perneese" dragons. Kind of like making a superman rip-off. somone's gonna sue.
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Ryusei · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject:

Vextor · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

Suikoden borrows a lot of stuff from other games/stories anyways, so this is nothing new. It borrows from the whole Melnibonean Saga (Elric Saga, Stormbringer, etc), Lord of the Rings, the whole Wizardry franchise, and when you get into the classics they borrow from Shui Hu Zhuan for one thing as well as Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Japanese classic Genpei Jyosuiki, and probably many more. Suikoden is basically a mish-mash of various stuff.

Oh yeah, Milia's dragon is called Ember in the English version? She's called "Thrash" in the Japanese version. Also, Joshua has no dragon, because he's the Captain. Bing the bearer of the Dragon Rune, he's not allowed to participate in battles; if he does and dies, then all dragons will die. That's why he remains in the safety of Goya.

Oh yes, and the Dragon Knights in Suikoden are quite vulnerable during the months the dragons sleep in the winter. That's why they require the protection of another nation, such as the Scarlet Moon Empire / Toran Republic.

Decado · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject:

Sophita · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

Pretty sure it's Thrash in the North American version as well, actually. 0.o
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Admiral Ackbar · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject:

And then there's all the smaller stuff Suikoden has copied, like for their characters. Characters like Kenji, Kidd, the Great Zexen Knights...they're all inspired by real people or fictional characters from other places.
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kuwaizair · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject:

well I just want to mention again, there is a differance between borrowing from MCCaffrey and Tolken(wich a lot of rpg and fantasy borrowed from) I could of sworn that if one makes "perneese dragons" and passes them off as their own for profet then someone might crack down on them.
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TruePerception · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject:

Not really! The similarities borrowed from the dragons of PERN are far to common elements of bond explanation to be decisively considered as copying.
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