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Parallax

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: RPG Voice Acting Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...Alright, I didn't see a topic on this, so if this is some kind of a repeat, then by all means, kick me in the face. Or let me know politely. One of the two.

Well, game voice acting is a (relatively) new concept, which started up with consoles like the PlayStation, where vastly more information could be stored in a single game. Games like the first Resident Evil were pioneers in the field. Since that time, certain game types, (such as survival-horror) traditionally have voice acting. I doubt that it's going anywhere, it's pretty much an integral part of the genre. Small pieces of voice acting are common in a variety of other games, from announcer clips in Madden to radio audio tracks in games like Grand Theft Auto.

It's also a somewhat (or at least, somewhat more) recent development for RPGs, starting around the time of the PlayStation 2. Games like Final Fantasy X were able to record most of the game's dialogue options between important characters, and all of the cutscenes, as full audio tracks accompanying the game.

My question is, is this a good thing?

The way I see it, it has to do heavily with execution, and the amount of time and money that a game company is willing to invest in properly developing their audio. Crappy voice acting in a game like the first Resident Evil is one thing, because most of the game is spent shooting zombies. But in a game that's heavily entrenched in dialogue like an RPG, bad voice acting isn't nearly as easy to ignore, nor is it easy to forgive.

An example.
Suikoden Tactics' voice acting isn't bad, at least, not in my opinion. However, the way that it's set up, the flow of the voice conversations gets interrupted constantly by requiring user input to hit the X button to advance the conversation. The ones "above" towns are the most irritating, where you're looking at the world map but have no control of your character. That, combined with my distaste for Kyril's voice actor, seriously diminished Suikoden Tactics in my eyes. I still enjoyed the gameplay, but it definitely lost points just for that omnipresent problem I had with the voices.

Or what if you have a strong aesthetic dislike for a very major character's voice acting? What if a game company throws an audio track in as an afterthought, and doesn't develop it properly, or give thought to how it will affect people's enjoyment of the game? It feels like a feature that developers feel pressured to put into their RPG games because of Final Fantasy and others who have already, successfully, integrated voice into their games. Frankly, I've never felt all that compelled to hear the voices of my favourite RPG characters acted-out. I prefer to imagine some things to myself, like reading a book, then seeing a disappointing portrayal on the big screen. ...But that's just me.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voice acting (VA) done well really adds to the immersion of a game. The most recent game which had me impressed with solid VA work from all characters was Dragon Quest 8. It helped add to the feeling of being immersed in the game world. Each voice was accented in a european way which added to the feeling you were actually in a true living and breathing world. That feeling of immersion is something quite unique in video game worlds imo.

VA also puts a voice to a face, it is a small way to flesh out a character by simply choosing a voice that would enhance the character's personality. Consider the characters and voices used in games such as FFX, XenoSaga. Good choices for VA helps build up the character and usually helps reinforce the characters traits. While imagining what they might sound like is nice, the complete package of voice, image and character traits adds more to the game imo.

Is it a good thing imo? If done correctly, VA can be a great addition to a game and can impact the game much more than a solid soundtrack. If not, it can totally destroy what may have been a good story. I've a lot more RPGs on mute than not.

I hope game companies continue to add VA to their games in the hopes that they learn from any missteps (like that Tidus/Yuna laughing scene in FFX -- Suiko Tactics flow of dialogue) and improve on them in their next release. Like battle systems, level progression and plot devices, voice acting will need time to refine in RPG games. Might as well start now
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Darko

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's a good concept...but they need to get GOOD voice actors to do it. Some voice actors just don't fit the image and when they are trying to portray a certain emotion...sometimes it just doesn't work.

One example was Collette from Tales of Symphonia. She was so annoying!! I had no problem with her voice acting during battle (it was actually pretty good) but when she tried to put emotion into the cutscenes I just wanted to stick burning coal into my ears! :x She sounded like an aspiring actress trying to play the main role in a low budget movie.

Other actors fit perfectly with the characters they are portraying (Karin & Yuri from Shadow Hearts Covenant) others just mess the whole experience for you.

Another thing is they need to find NEW voice actors...I don't know how many times I've said "Wait...I know that voice...that's *X*'s voice!!" not only in video games but also in Anime. Who knows...it must be hard to find good voice actors that's why they need to...recycle them.

Parallax wrote:

Quote:

Or what if you have a strong aesthetic dislike for a very major character's voice acting? What if a game company throws an audio track in as an afterthought, and doesn't develop it properly, or give thought to how it will affect people's enjoyment of the game? It feels like a feature that developers feel pressured to put into their RPG games because of Final Fantasy and others who have already, successfully, integrated voice into their games. Frankly, I've never felt all that compelled to hear the voices of my favourite RPG characters acted-out. I prefer to imagine some things to myself, like reading a book, then seeing a disappointing portrayal on the big screen. ...But that's just me.


Yeah...some people are just used to imagining how characters sound instead of actually KNOWING what they sound like...that's why sometime voice actors ruin characters.

If more and more games are going to integrate voice acting into their games, they should have an option of turning the voice acting on or off. I don't' know a thing about making games so would that be too hard of a thing to do?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As people said before, voice acting can be a great asset for any RPG. However, it only works when it is done the right way. Most RPGs I've played have shown me that the voice acting in this genre still has a long ways to go.

On my part, I really don't mind either way. Voice Acting is not really a deciding factor when I go buy a new game. I'm not too demanding on voice acting, but every once in a while comes a voince like Kyril's and Chiepoo's that just makes my ears bleed. That's when I start caring for the voice acting, when it is detrimental to the game instead of a nice addition.
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Hawk Thanatos

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallax wrote:
Well, game voice acting is a (relatively) new concept, which started up with consoles like the PlayStation, where vastly more information could be stored in a single game. Games like the first Resident Evil were pioneers in the field.


To my knowledge one of the first games to have voice acting was Star Ocean for the Super Nintendo where it had voices for the opening scene.

As for whether voice acting is a bad thing or not...it depends. As long as they have voice actors that can put emotion into their voices believably then it's fine, I don't necessarilly have to like every single voice, just like I don't like every single persons voice in the world. Some people have annoying voices.

However there is nothing that annoys me more than people preferring to have japanese voices rather than english when they don't understand japanese. To me that just seems pointless, you might as well just press mute and listen to music instead.

I wonder if people in Japan complain about the voice actors and wish that they could have the english ones instead.
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I mostly mimick what everyone here has said, but I would like to emphasize my desire to hear new voice actors. I love what the current ones are doing, but in every game I'm usually saying "Hey, thats Character X from Game X, and also Character Y from Game Y, and also Character X from game X, and also..." like Darko17 said. I really think they're doing a great job, but I would still like to hear more voice actors doing character voices.

Suikoden 5 has well over 108 characters. They'll need more voice actors.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think voice acting in games can be a very good thing and agree it has everything to do with execution. I mean, it makes a difference in movies as well. How many really bad movies with really bad actors have you seen? I've seen some where I cringed every time the actor took an intake of breath, trying to brace myself for the terror that was bad line delivery. I mean, there are those actors out there that make you want to go watch silent movies, and some of those silent movies are superior to "talkies". Go watch a Buster Keaton or Charlie Chaplin movie. Sheer brilliance...but then again, they were masters.

Vocal tracks are just another tool to influence an audiences idea of a character. Unfortunately, voice acting seems to be a mixed bag in most cases. Blasphemy mentioned DQ VIII as an example of good voice acting helping characterization, and I agree. Another good example that I'm running through right now is the Japanese imports of Sakura Wars. Since the VA's in the games are the same VA's for the anime, the quality is top notch and gives a great sense of character and continuity with the series. Good scouting and casting for VA's is one of the things that I've actually seen cited as a reason that Sakura Wars is so ungodly popular in Japan.

Blue Thunder wrote:
I really think they're doing a great job, but I would still like to hear more voice actors doing character voices.


I totally agree, and wish that there were more talented VA's working. I actually considered going into VA work at one time, but gave up the idea since I didn't want to move at the time and there isn't much in my area.

I'm not sure if you're mostly referring to US Domestic, but I can say that we have a few hiccups in the system. One is that the pay and the glory is pretty low, though that's changing slowly. The other is that the talent pool for voice over folks here in the US is relatively small, especially compared to the industry in Japan. The last thing I see as being problematic is that a lot of VA work ends up having to go through the Screen Actors Guild. SAG and Actors Equity have some fairly arcane rules as to membership, and sometimes trying to get in even if you're moderately talented is a pain.

I hope the current trend continues and more GOOD VA work is done in games. It looks pretty shiny from here on, since the push seems to be going in that direction.
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Its A Catapult

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Blue Thunder wrote:
I mostly mimick what everyone here has said, but I would like to emphasize my desire to hear new voice actors. I love what the current ones are doing, but in every game I'm usually saying "Hey, thats Character X from Game X, and also Character Y from Game Y, and also Character X from game X, and also..." like Darko17 said. I really think they're doing a great job, but I would still like to hear more voice actors doing character voices.

Suikoden 5 has well over 108 characters. They'll need more voice actors.


well...considering one person will do multiple roles...

some of these voice actors need to be more varied...Dave Wittenberg is excellent cuz I mean...anyone who can pull off Cliff(SO3) and Allen(Xenosaga) and not make me think it was a the same person is pretty good.

I like Crispin Freeman, but all his characters sound alike...or are somewhat similar.

They need diverse people...like The Simpsons cast...haha...Dan Castellanetta does like half the voices on the show and you'd have no clue it was him!...He's no stranger to VG either, he did voices on Kingdom Hearts...and of course, the Simpsons games.

John Di Maggio would be cool too...he was Wakka/Kimarhi in FFX and X-2...plus his best role...Bender in Futurama...which according to his biography on IMDB.com...is coming back in 2007!
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Hawk Thanatos

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Its A Calyps0 wrote:
John Di Maggio would be cool too...he was Wakka/Kimarhi in FFX and X-2...plus his best role...Bender in Futurama...which according to his biography on IMDB.com...is coming back in 2007!


I had no idea that the same voice actor did Wakka and Kimahri let alone Bender! And we can only hope that Futurama gets new series'. That'd be so cool.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Some games will always be remembered for their voice acting, and often its the really bad VAs that are remembered more than great ones. Take the original Resident Evil, the VA was horrible to the extent you couldn't help but laugh at it, detracting from the horror of the game... yet that's something RE fans like about the series.

Examples of GREAT VA that people forget to mention are things like the Metal Gear series, the VA in that is so well done you never think about it because it just seems right. Castlevania SOTN also IMO had great VAs, the realisation of Dracula and Alucards voices was perfect.

The non-Konami game I'll mention on VAs is Valkyrie Profile - that is one game where I have to say the voices really sold the characters for me. For a start the sprites weren't much to go by most of the time, but the personalities that came through their voices kept them real.

While we're talking about crazy variations on VAs... did you know the VA for Arngrim also did the voice of Lezard in Valkyrie Profile, and Meowth in Pokémon? How's that for some variety :p
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voice acting IMO is a very mixed bag... and I think that unless a game company is going to go all out and get high quality voice actors, they should not add voices at all. Like people have said above, if it's done well it can really suck you in and add to the overall experience (ie Dragon Quest 8, Xenosaga, FFX...at least I think so). But for some games the voice acting can sort of take away from the enjoyement...

For example, I played through Tales of Symphonia and Suikoden Tactics with no voices (after hearing them early on I promptly turned them off). Well then my roomate was playing through them, but with voices on...and moments of the game that I had found tender or touching were now almost comical. We both laughed out loud because with voices it seemed corny. Because a lot of the dialogue in rpgs sounds alright just read to yourself, but when read aloud it takes on a different quality and REALLy detracts from the moment. Only when you have a truly talented voice actor, who can handle a wide range of emotions for their character, can you have good voice acting that benefits a game. I don't even care for VA if it's just "Okay" If it's not good, then in my book it's bad. If it doesn't make me say "wow, that really made this that much better!" and just "Well..I don't really mind it.." then i'd rather just turn it off altogether.

This problem seems to be much larger for NA games...because whenever I hear the Japanese voice acting, I never seem to have that many problems. I think it's because the NA voice actors tend to try and find a certain way of speaking (ie southern, overly whiney, ghetto-fab, heavy new york accent etc) that just seems out of place and...odd..and..annoying! I don't hear so much of this in the Japanese voices, but maybe my ear is just not trained to hear it...in any case I find that it is much more often the case that it's enjoyable. I wish more games would leave the option to listen to the Japanese voices. I suppose certain legal issues cause this option not to be available? At least that's what i've heard for some games. Anway this has gone on way too long...but that's my two cents..or like four million. But who's counting.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voice-acting is becoming a more and more important thing for a game. It used to be standard for you to have a game with bad voice acting, but games are trying to take games to the level of movies with thier abilities to voice-act and whatnot. Not all games have or have had bad voice acting, but a good many of them do. Final Fantasy X, with the exception of a few scenes, had exceptional voice acting, for one. I also am fond of the voice acting in Metal Gear Solid, and Kingdom Hearts. If done right, voice-acting can add wonders to your game. The narration in FFX and the whole game of MGS proves that. For some methods of story telling, and some genres of game simply need voice acting.

There are only very few cases of good voice acting, bad voice acting is much easier to find. Devil May Cry and Suikoden IV are the first games that come to mind - those had awful voice actors. My friend and I will look at games with voice acting like that and say, "Why didn't anyone tell this game to chill?" Because, obviously, this game would have done better with sub-titles and no voice acting at all. Especially in the case of Suikoden IV, with it being a translation of the game and all. The voice of Dante in the first Devil May Cry game was simply unforgivable. They tried to create the ultimate badass with that opening scene - and would have, only his voice is like a magnet of fists to television screens.

So, there are obviously a good number of games that have good and bad voice acting, but sometimes the voice acting is so... in the middle, that it lacks recognition all together. A lot of the games I play I don't even notice whether voice acting is good or bad, I just listen. This is probably due to the type of script that is written, however. In Splinter Cell, you just explain plain dialogue, you don't even notice they're talking most of the time. Which is a good thing, but it means games are becoming more forced to not only have voice-acting, but have better voice-actors.

Also, the quality of voice actors is subjective. I think that Final Fantasy X had exceptional voice-acting, I bet several disagree. An example of this is in Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. I remember reading a discussion on GameFAQs recently as to whether Cam Clarke (the voice of Liquid Snake (he also does voices in several other video games) was a good voice actor for Liquid or not. He is an American doing a Brittish accent, which is debatable obviously.

Roger Ebert also recently stated that Games are not art, but with the advent of voice acting, I think it is easy to disagree. If gaming in itself is not art, it certainly now combines almost every other form of art in existance. Why should this collaboration not be considered art? But, that's a whole other discussion.

In any case, I said that some genres need voice acting, is that the case for RPGs? Well, I do not think so. But, with better graphics and better and more powerful systems to run these things on, I don't see a reason to not have voice acting, save maybe budget. And several low-budget games have mediocre voice-acting anyway. So, I think it may be becoming necessary. But, some RPGs prove me wrong and make games that have voice acting that detriments gameplay. So, I could really go either way on this one. But, I think that we're getting to a point where they should have voice acting.
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Kane of the Black Sea

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the voice acting is mostly just a hit and miss thing like in movies. Either you like the actors and it enhances the experience or they are bad but the rest of the movie/game can carry it or lastly the acting can ruin the entire thing.
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ard

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I believe voice acting can add a lot to a game, if ofcourse it is done right. But the more is time is spent on voice-acting the less time there will be spent on other more important things such as gameplay. This happens a lot with games today that rely more on their graphics than gameplay.

If a game has voice-acting, i believe only the real important and main story related dialogues should be spoken. Less important speech such as talking to shopkeepers for example should be left out, as it does not add much to the game in general, and the time and money spent on voice-actors should be spent on much more important things.

I like voice-acting, if done right, and i hope to see many more games with voice-acting in the future.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

the voice acting embarasses me somtimes, I don't know why, the kind of embarasment you have when doing somthing and you are afraid to be caught and made fun of or judged.

but it helps with knowing how characters mean their words, or it kills imaganation on how they should sound.

it adds depth to them though.
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