The Song of Ice and Fire

[Milan Fiori]

I somewhat like the Jon Snow being a Targaryn. It means that Jon isn't Eddard's son though. But rather his sister's. Which I can forsee happening since we know there was something between her and Rheagar. And Eddard never speaks of it, so not to tarnish their names.

Who do you think might be the other two heads of the dragon? I thought it might have been Jon, but well I think he's too noble to take a wife as long as he's Commander of the Night's Watch. I'm thinking it might be Quentyn Dorn and Bran Stark. But that's just my theory.
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[Onimaru]

Well assuming that the heads of the dragon have to have Targaryn blood I think Jon is a likely candidate, if they dont then I vote for Tyrion (he's on his way out to meet up with Danny). However, there were some interesting things revealed in a few interviews with Martin that lead me to belive there is another Targaryn heir roaming around across the narrow sea.

Historically there was a family line known as the "Blackfyers" who broke off from the Targaryns during the Blackfyre rebellion, in which they tried to assume the thrown. Most died there, but one called Bittersteel fled westeros and went to the free-cities and started a mercenary unit known as the "Golden Company", they have been mentioned in the books and it said they NEVER break a contract but just did to head somewhere else (they probably heard word of Danny) anyways, my theory is that the leader of them is a decendant of Bittersteel and is going to meet up w/ danny and possibly try and take her dragons (hence the title "Dance of Dragons" referenseing the first "dance of dragons" where two targaryns fought for the kingdom). Martin also released information saying that there would be another large Mercenary group playing a part in DoD. 'eh hem, can anyone say the Golden Company.

If Jon is a Targ then I see him as being a head, some craps going to go on at the wall before all this over and I dont think distinction between nights watch or andal is really going to matter in the end. There's still the horn of Jorumund out there that can bring down the wall, and someones got it. So i could see a problem big enough to erase all those previous lines and bring Jon into the fold without any great moral dillemas.

[Starslasher]

You'll have to remind me. Which is the Targaryns? I remember the Starks, Lannisters, Barathons, and there's the Freys, the Trout people (out of the kingdoms in Westeros, they're my favorite, but for the life of me i can't remember their names), the Rock people in the East and the Sand people from the south. If one of the the Targaryns?

Oh, and i don't know about any thoery about Jon's parentage. I never bothered to think about it, although he's in my Top 10 of the favorites, as I thought that it was an irrelevant point, and wasn't going to be of much concern for his story. But i might be wrong.
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[Onimaru]

The Targaryns were the old dynasty, the original linage of kings of Westeros. Desendants of Agon the Conquerer, Daeneries is the daughter of Aerys Targaryn. The Theory is that Jon isn't really Eddard Starks son, but the son of Eddards sister Lyanna and Rhegar Targaryn.
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[Starslasher]

Oh right! Them! And there was the dragon lady, Daenrys Targeryn, or something like that, i'm sure that it started with a D. I totally forgot their surnames, silly me!

I really wanted more about Rhaegar. Other than the anecdotes of him from other characters. He sounded cool, like Eddard Stark himself, IMO.
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[Vertius]

[Tullaryx]

I don't mind if A Dance of Dragons takes time to come out. The fact that he is writing the script for one episode each of the A Song of Ice and Fire series for HBO means that the show should be very close to what Martin had in mind. I think people tend to forget that George R.R. Martin did scriptwriting for TV throughout the 80's. Plus, it's only one episode per season so he won't be putting too much of his writing time doing teleplays for HBO.
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[Voan Darl]

The definitive series of fantasy, I don't even know where to begin about talking about this series... the twists and turns that I never would have seen coming, and the depth of the story, whew. Also, home to probably my favorite quote i've ever read in a fantasy series:

"Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air...I know them all. I have seen their peoples garland them with flowers, and shed the blood of goats and bulls and children in their names. And I have heard the prayers, in half a hundred tongue. Cure my withered leg, make the maiden love me, grant me a healthy son. Save me, succor me, make me wealthy...protect me! Protect me from mine enemies, protect me from the darkness, protect me from the crabs inside my belly, from the horselords, from the slavers, from the sell-swords at my door. Protect me from the Silence." He laughed. "Godless? Why, Aeron, I am the godliest man ever to raise sail! You serve one god, Damphair, but I have served ten thousand. From Ib to Asshai, when men see my sails, they pray."

That was so bad ass... Two other things that come to mind: Jon snow getting killed off? please dont jinx that, hes one of the only people I really really like that are still alive haha damn George R.R. Martin... and two, as we all know there has been some pretty rough things that have happend in the series thus far (trying not to drop any spoilers for those browsing this thread that havn't read Song of Ice and Fire) from perhaps a lost battle that you really pulled for the wrong side, to a character you really like that was killed, (or bitch killed at dinner... damn freys... "the only man that could field and army from his breeches" haha) after all that has happened in the series is there anything that you could think of happening that would make you stop reading it? or after this much are you in it for the long haul no matter what happens?

[Starslasher]

[Tullaryx]

Yeah, series like Martin's are ones that fans become really invested in after reading up to the last book. I know people who were a tad pissed off that the last book released was just half of a larger one and some favorite characters didn't even make the cut. But the fact that they still read it shows that they got over it. I think it helps that the series is one of the better written fantasy epics of the past 25 years. It's not derivative and it also doesn't dumb itself down to make itself accessible to all readers. A reader either gets the series or they don't.
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[Onimaru]

Mucho agreed with everyone here. Well, it's been about a year since they released that there would be an HBO series based on the books, and after this much time they're probably getting to the point where they're getting ready to start casting, or at least review some possible candidates for the pilot at least. I'm curious to see who they choose, HBO has a habit of shying away from many big names and I don't expect that this will have a big enough budget to fill the ranks with famous actors. Anyone have any speculation as to what actor/actresses might fill the parts best? I imagine with the budget they'll probably get, if we can use Showtimes "the Tudors" as a reference, they will probably only be able to spring for one or two big names at most. any speculation?
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[Voan Darl]

Reading over some of the older posts, ha, forgot about the Snow/Targaryen theories. Rhaegar was such a pimp, I wish there would have been more information on him. As much as Robert turned into a drunken oaf at the end of his life, god I bet that guy was a bad ass when he was younger. Well, obviously he was, but you know what I mean. Having talked with Onimaru at length on the topic I am in his school of thought regarding Jon probably being Rhaegar's son. It's been so long since i've read the parts i'm trying to remember to reference that I might misquote them but there was that secret that Ned always promised to keep for his sister, plus the fact that before he died he really wanted to speak with Jon. Who knows, could have been anything. As for the horn, doenst Jon's ex-woman have that? Wait, no she died... uh... I'm trying to remember who has it. Last mention was at the end of Storm when they were standing on top the wall and they had that battered horn. I immediatly thought of The Horn of Joruman (sp?). On another note, and if you havn't finished feast you might want to stop reading... what the fuck was with Arya going blind?! WOW. I didn't see that coming at all. Hopefully they set her up to be some big bad ass instead of just screwing her over and writing her off. I could almost see it going either way with the unpredictability of Martin. Danny I forsee having alot of trouble in this next book cause she has done alot to make enemies. Sure she has the pimp ass Unsullied at her side, but pretty much everywhere she goes people hate her now, whether it be lusting for her dragons or the fact that she pokes her damn nose where it doesn't belong (besides the Unsullied uprising which was BAD ASS). The more I think and write her the more questions I seem to think of haha, so i'll stop here and discuss these for the moment.

[Onimaru]

As far as Danny, well, I don't know if Martin is building her up to be the savior of Westeros or the main villan to come, I'd like to think the first option is what he's going for but we've already seen her mature from a naive girl into a somewhat hard queen with some dragons at her side, and the hint of madness that she's worried about inheriting could be forshadowing to her being the worst Targaryn in the history of them. Of course there's the matter of the prophecy that she's probably Azor Azahi or whomever reborn, she meets all the requirements but nothing in the world of George R. R. Martin is as it seems, so you never know for sure what he's going to do with anything in the series.

On the topic of the cast picks for the HBO series, I was discussing on a different forum that Peter Dinklage would make an amazing Tyrion Lannister.


of course they would need to dye his hair, but I think he fits the roll pretty well. Unfortunatly he's becoming a semi-serious actor, and not one who'se acting abilities is based on his short stature like that guy who played Willow. He's done some serious work for IFC and is gaining some credibility as an actor. And while he would be a great cast choice for the role of Tyrion, if the series is successful he would end up pigeon holing himself into a specific role like the guy from Willow did, or Elijah Wood did with Frodo, or the guy who played Luke Skywalker. And as a serious actor the paychecks might be nice but the loss of credibility might be too great a risk.
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[Voan Darl]

First off, for some reason I cannot see Danny as the savior of Westeros. I think ideally at first that was her thoughts but... I think her ways of going about it would have been a bit construed. From the beginning she was at the side of Viserys (sp?) and I think he was a pervert haha, pinching his sisters nipples and shit, but that was besides the point (what the hell goes through George Martin's head... I swear he would fit in perfectly to Onimaru's perverted old men regiment). Anyway, oddly, I think he would have been the only saving grace to her. She was so repulsed by him that I think if he would have been allowed to live that she would have been more benevolent because of the way he was and she would not want to be anything like him. Another thing, she has become a hard queen as of late and although... eh... she still I think does mean well freeing the slaves and all that, she goes about some pretty shitty ways of doing it. I think that as time goes on she is going to be getting worse and worse. Assuming she stays in control of those dragons. Hehe, where is that pimp horn when you need it :D. And she really has no way to control them. They are already doing sort of what they want to by themselves and she really can't stop them. I could see her becoming a bad Targaryen, but not the worst of the line. Aerys I think would have been worse in his reign than she ever would be. For one, no one is going to put up with that shit again, and two she doens't seem that cruel. The only way I could see her as being the savior of Westeros is if she got that horn, which I see becoming a major part... and I sort of only see her as being the one able to use it since it burnt up that one crewman's insides and she lived through being burnt alive... perhaps there is something associated with her and somewhat of an imperviousness to fire? Anyway the only way I could see her becoming a savior to Westeros is if she got that horn and fought off this army of the Others that seems to be massing. But even then she has this growing hatred for the Seven Kingdoms and I could see her doing some pretty terrible stuff if she was ever in position to rule there... come to think of it, I could see her being the worst Targaryen. 3 dragons? Can you say Field of Fire all over again? hehe...

On the topic of the picture and talk of the HBO series, that guy actually I think would make a pretty good Tyrion. Elijah Wood has done other things than play midgets, since, well he's NOT one. That guy, eh, what else is he going to play? They gonna reverse Lord of The Rings that guy to be taller? I would doubt it. I think he was kinda typecast into midget rolls since he started being an acting midget.

[Onimaru]

Finally someone to speculate with about Song of Ice and Fire! haha, as far as danny goes well - she's got the whole prophecy thing going on with her, the whole "you'll be betrayed three times" 'etc, she's sort of being setup to be the "main character" or hero I suppose, but I could see her getting a sour bite of life and being a queen and turn into a mega-bitch. And you're right, when she finally does make it to Westeros she's going to either;

A) Ride in on dragons and pwn some other

or

B) Ride in on dragons and pwn some lannister/tyrell/'etc..

If it's option A well, after she saves everyone, some heads are going to roll because she's got a major grudge with everyone about how shitty her life had to turn out because they turned on her father. if It's B well, she'll get those heads out of the way before she starts in on the others.

in my opinion, John Snow is where it's at. with the Rhegar/Lyanna speculation he could be the "targaryn" hero born, I'm sure if we looked hard enough he meets all the critera for the prophecies. He's got a more solid personality and the moral foundation that eddard stark set down. What moral foundation does Danny have? Vyserys? Illayrio? Khal Drogo? Jorah Mormont? the only saving grace she could have is if Sire Barristan Selmy starts cleaning house and laying down the law with her.

As for mr. Dinkleage he's been in serious movies and...yes, he was typecast because he was a midget - but he also has some serious acting ability beyond being under 4 foot tall. Which, is rare among that genra of actors, and he is taken somewhat seriously by the film community - his movies have won some serious awards in that crowd. If he were to take on a roll like Tyrion, and the series took off...well, then he'd be just another dwarf and like Willow he would be the "fantasy dwarf" and I'm sure we'd see him in whatever future fantasy movies needed a man under 4 foot :D though it would be funny to see special effects turn a midget into a regular/larger than life sized character in a movie. if only for the irony.
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