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Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? The Debate begins
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

RedCydranth wrote:
hawkthanatos wrote:
Seriously who has the time to get pissed off at crap like this? Who cares whether they say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays they don't actually care they just want you to buy the worthless crap they're selling.


Who has the time? I fricking do. This issue enfuriates me to no end. Its not Wal-Mart I'm really mad at its the liberal nut jobs trying to be "everyone friendly" so they don't recieve bad publicity by using a religion friendly phrase like Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah or Happy Kwanzaa. I grew up with Merry Christmas. Everyone said it, Jews, Blacks, whites, everyones. Even atheists celebrate the spirit of christmas. They may not reckognize the Jesus aspect but nobody can deny the spirit of being happy with those you love and sharing gifts to show your appreciation to them. Heck, the Jews love it so much they do it for 8 nights.

One think that really gets me is I've never had anyone honestly come out and say "Please don't say Merry Christmas to me, I'm a jew". I think that if anyone was so inconsiderate to human cheer that if they ever did say something like that to me I'd punch them in the nose. Christmas is no longer about a baby in a manger, its about spreading cheer to one another and becoming close with your fellow man, if only for a day. On no other day can you walk up to a complete stranger and greet them without fear of them stabbing you. The christmas spirit is ruined by the phrase Happy Holidays. I feel that the person is just lumping the year into one phrase. Happy Holidays? What, you forgot to wish me a Happy Halloween and 4th of July so you are tossing all the holidays into one statement? Could I not say Happy Holidays on February 2nd? Hey, its to cover Groundhogs day, Presidents Day and Valentines. This way if someone thinks Valentine's day is a crock I wont get backlash right?

I was watching Comedy Central and I saw Steven Colbert make an analysis on the word Holiday. The anti-religion buttheads use Happy Holidays to not offend the various religions and the atheists but Holiday the word stems from an old english word meaning Holy Day. Hey Holy... isn't that a religious word? In your face Wal-Mart conglomerate morons.

If someone comes up to me this weekend and says Happy Hannukah I'll say thank you and return it to them. I am not a Jew but I reckognize that this person has taken the time out of their day to wish me happiness and in this day and age its something we seldom see. I am fortunate he didn't come over and mug me or tell me to fork off. The christmas season is something that we should all embellish and not turn it into another political debacle like our currency's In God We Trust issue.

So to everyone on this forum, Merry Christmas, if you don't celebrate it too bad but I hope you have a good day anyhow. Accept it and be thankful or don't accept it and I hope you get hit by a truck. Its not often people are nice to you, enjoy it.


Ah, the true Christian spirit shines through. If I want to say Happy Holidays, I'll say it, if I want to say Happy Christmas, I will. It doesn't bloody matter, it means the same thing, it's a request be bloody happy during the goddamn holiday.

But, hey, if someone says it the "wrong" way, let's just hope a truck runs over them, WWJD indeed.
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

John Layfield wrote:
But, hey, if someone says it the "wrong" way, let's just hope a truck runs over them, WWJD indeed.


Wow, that is among the funniest things I have seen in a long, long time. XD
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

hawkthanatos wrote:
Seriously who has the time to get pissed off at crap like this? Who cares whether they say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays they don't actually care they just want you to buy the worthless crap they're selling.


this topic is the perfect example of American's having too much time to argue about trivial matters that in no way shape or form affect anything on a larger scale. To me this is just a group of people trying to get their fifteen minutes of fame and somehow validate their lives by feeling as if they've changed something in the world even though for the most part it's insignificant.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zero wrote:
hawkthanatos wrote:
Seriously who has the time to get pissed off at crap like this? Who cares whether they say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays they don't actually care they just want you to buy the worthless crap they're selling.


this topic is the perfect example of American's having too much time to argue about trivial matters that in no way shape or form affect anything on a larger scale. To me this is just a group of people trying to get their fifteen minutes of fame and somehow validate their lives by feeling as if they've changed something in the world even though for the most part it's insignificant.


...says the person who feels the need to post his opinion on the matter on a message board...




Nothing against you personally, Zero. I simply found the irony amusing. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I pretty much agree with the sentiment expressed in this thread (well, not the "I hope you get hit by a truck" thing :| , but most of everything else).

I work in retail, and I believe I'm the only person left in my mall who says "Merry Christmas". I actually made a lady's day yesterday by saying it to her. She told me that everyone was too worried they might offend someone to say it, or even the neutered term "Happy Holidays".

I mean, I don't automatically assume everyone shopping this time of year is Christian, but I have never run into a problem of any kind over it. If I say "Merry Christmas" to someone who turns out to be Jewish, they simply say "Happy Chanukah" back to me. Without missing a beat, I wish them a "Happy Chanukah", they smile and go on with their day. So where's the problem?

I have a really nit-picky argument about the term "Happy Holidays", which I think is kinda funny if you think about it. I don't care if you think it's funny because I'm going to tell you either way. :P

"Happy Holidays" is an incorrect phrase because it assumes the person to whom said phrase is being applied to celebrates more than one holiday (or any at all). "Holidays" as in "more than one". Now personally, I only celebrate Christmas this time of year, and I assume that Jewish people would only celebrate Chanukah (unless it was a mixed household, in which case "Holidays" being plural would be correct). So to many people (I would say the majority), the phrase "Happy Holidays" is inapplicable and could be deemed to be *gasp* offensive!

And don't forget those people who don't wish for their Holiday(s) to be happy! Maybe they want a Crappy Holiday. You just never know! Wouldn't want to offend someone by wishing them something that they are not in favor of, right?

So, for all you people using the watered down phrase "Happy Holidays", be careful not to offend anybody with it who might only celebrate one holiday or none at all. You must be politically correct at all times! (Or not... if you can see what I'm trying to say.)

I'll leave you all with a non-offensive phrase tonight so I don't get myself in trouble (just in case): "nighty night"! ;)
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Masaya

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah... I was curious yesterday if I was going to get in trouble with any mangers or perhaps even clients in whom I'm ultimatly working for. As a telemarketer, believe it or not, not everyone just hangs up and says something completely stupid. And on numerous occasions I did say merry christmas to alot of the people I said it to. I call into the sums of 300+ people a day, ofcoarse sometimes I'd forget, or someone would hang out, or I didn't feel they deserved it or something. But atleast half of those people I told a Merry Christmas. Not once did I get someone complain or become offended.

Well people get the choice to choose if they want to say it or not. Honestly Merry Christmas is apart of my religion. I'm going to keep saying it becuase it's what I beleive in. And the least some people could do is be a little tolerant to a happy greeting and support goodwill. I'm not asking anyone of ofcoarse believe in it, and aslong as noones having religion forced down their throats, they probally need to just chill out and find someone new to complain about.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

this war on "x-mass" seems to be a hot topic. well sure we're talking about all the happy, lucky holidays to land during the same season.

date switching leads to people at eachothers throat, one says their god is born then, the others...what was it, the end of winter or the rebirth of a sun god for others.

then you have other religious celebrations, people are touchy with this topic, its kept really close to heart and some are angrey some of these holidays are left to some commercial terror land, filled with greed, consumerism and material worship, "christmas" for some is just 'winter holiday get together gift giving dinner day" no prayers, no worship, no festivies, just drinking wine, eating cocktail wennies, boyos(spl?) cheese on toast and watching a certain movie ad nausium while the floor is tatterd with the remains of colorfull wrappings.

for some its full of warmth and church going, prayrs and gifts and dinners, or some who are really into it, and do charity work (one day I will buy Jhonny that "electronic" thing he wats from the tree, I think a blender or sandwich machine is a good gift for a little boy who wants electronics) but, again, its the loss of the meaning that angrers people.

Then you have the other side, the people who want to help non belivers from feeling like they have religion shoved in their face, how would one party feel if I said "happy phoneix day, phoneix day is when the world was destroyed and recreated when the Phoneix god Ilulitantal fixed everything, now Ilulitantal is the very world blablala" You'd roll your eyes, if it were in your face. Bad example.

but I'm feeling at a great "this is so stupid, these silly people, if xmas was somthing practiced by some people 4000 years ago, and worshiped somthing like the passing of planets and turned it into a story involved fake gods they'd laugh and slander it. its the same thing. Or the whole neo-installments. Santa, Trees and what not, has nothing to do with Jesus, even x-mas was planted somwhere else to compete with other holidays right? again, now I feel we don't need these farie tails.

thats just how I feel. just have your own comersicalized family get-together, some of us just do it. worship in a differnt way.
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ley wrote:
I don't se how Christians can just hijack a time of year and call it their own, when it's common knowledge that Christmas isn't even when Jesus Christ was born. The season was hijacked from the other religions.

Before Jesus was even born it was called many things. The feast of the Son of Isis was celebrated on December 25th in Ancient Babylon, the Romans celebrated Saturnalia during Winter, Pagans had Yule. Christmas is just a stolen holiday, so no-one has the right to force anyone to wish a "Merry Christmas".


So what if it's a "stolen" holiday? Does that make it any less meaningful to people just because it was originally intended to make people forget about pagan holidays? Please. Who gets upset over crap like that?

I'm very very SHOCKED to see people here saying "it doesn't matter" in much harsher tones. Of COURSE it matters if you want to be respectful and courteous to your fellow people. I'm not going to wish a muslim a Merry Christmas because that makes me an idiot. Happy Holidays is a much safer and overall friendly term to use. Why? It communicates the point that you're actually trying to be sensitive and polite with someone else whom you may or may not know.

Really, I had no idea that so many people here had such a big problem with being nice.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm pretty much in agreement with Ajora. I normally say "happy winter" to people on the street, for no real reason besides to be weird. Happy Holidays isn't religious specific, so if anyone takes offense to it... Yeah, I don't what happens after that. Maybe their masacists? I dunno...

As for Christmas being a stolen holiday, come on... It's been 2000 years, does it really matter anymore? It is considered a holiday by Christians now, be it stolen or not.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well first I will address this whole issue about Christians stealing the holiday from the Romans, and making it their own. It is in fact highly reagrded, that while the preached belief is that Jesus was born on that day, it was merely fabricated to go over better with the Romans. You see the Romans were rather infamous for their aggresive nature against religions that were alien to them, just look what they did to Jerusalem like 3 times. They were already being persecuted throughout the empire at the time as it was, much less if they were going to preach their beliefs in Rome of all places. So they modified things a bit, and two peices of the puzzle were put into place that considered to be true even today. Those being that Jesus is the direct son of god, born through virgin birth to Mary. Now I dont know how many of you know your Greek/Roman mythology, but this sounds a lot like the story of the birth of Apolllo. Son of Zeus, born to a virgin mother, a few days following the winter solstice. Thats where the second addition was made, to fit the myth they were presenting, they had to add that in, thus they came up with Decenber 25th as the birthdate.

It is also a misreading of the bible to believe that Jesus ever called himself the son of god. He never claimed to be anything more than a child of god, in the way of saying that "we are all the children of god". He was in fact only called Jesus Christ, after his death, as it is well known that he went by the name of Jesus of Nazareth. All this issue of him being the son of god directly through the virgin birth, came about follwoing his death by cruxifiction. Though both his life, and execution have been corroberated through different accounts, not just that of the bible. Oh for those wondering, it is believed that Jesus was actually born some time around easter. This thought being brought about, because in Roman times, as it is now that is also tax season. Back then men would have to go back to their hometowns to go pay their taxes, and Joseph was from Bethlehem. Though this in itself is merely speculation.

As I said all of this is speculation and nothing is able to be confirmed, or denied in any concrete way. It is all a matter of belief, whether you think he was the direct son of god, or some kind of prophet, or just another schmuck, thats all up to you. I am merely supplying some background information to that whole debacle.

As for the rest of the thread, I am also in agreement with the rest of the members, that it shouldnt really matter what line someone uses to greet another during the holidays. What matters is, you took the time to greet them with whatever holiday you believe in, or dont believe in, and if they take kindly they will respond. Besides I actually know several people not of the Christian belief who celebrate christmas anyway. So what would it matter to them if you were to say Merry Christmas? Absolutely nothing I dont think.
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Ley

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

St. Ajora wrote:
Ley wrote:
I don't se how Christians can just hijack a time of year and call it their own, when it's common knowledge that Christmas isn't even when Jesus Christ was born. The season was hijacked from the other religions.

Before Jesus was even born it was called many things. The feast of the Son of Isis was celebrated on December 25th in Ancient Babylon, the Romans celebrated Saturnalia during Winter, Pagans had Yule. Christmas is just a stolen holiday, so no-one has the right to force anyone to wish a "Merry Christmas".


So what if it's a "stolen" holiday? Does that make it any less meaningful to people just because it was originally intended to make people forget about pagan holidays? Please. Who gets upset over crap like that?


What I meant by that is that no religion actually has the right to hijack a season and demand that it be called only that, as it was something else way before they decided to call it Christmas.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wouldn't wish a Muslim a Merry Christmas either, becase it would indeed make me an idiot. But If I don't know he/she is one and end up saying "Merry christmas" and he/she snaps at me, instead of saying "thanks" or "thanks, but im a muslim hahaha" ; he/she has a bit of a problem regarding manners.

Nevertheless, we don't have this problem in Argentina. There is an expression for wishing happy holidays that refers exactly to this time of the year, so no one gets offended.

Yeah, we are that cool. And the rest of the spanish speaking world also has it but I now nobody actually highlites the little stuff so I think I might have pull it off!
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Ley"]
St. Ajora wrote:

What I meant by that is that no religion actually has the right to hijack a season and demand that it be called only that, as it was something else way before they decided to call it Christmas.


C'est la vie, that's what people do in a little thing called assimilation. Should we be bitter about that today? Politics suck, eh.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Look at all this acceptance ^_^

Personally I identify myself as Norse - many may scoff at the idea or tell me it is not a religion but that doesn't matter, religion is a set of beliefs and I take mine from my Viking ancestry.

Having said that I am incredibly open to other religions, I was baptised Anglican as a child - I was not asked it was part of my schooling. I grew up with "Merry Christmas" and was told it was a celebration of the birth of Christ. Whether this was his actual birthday or not is irrelevant, here in New Zealand we celebrate the Queen of England's Birthday on a different day to Australia, and neither of those days represent the current queen's birthdate.

While there have been many religious ties to Christmas in a mostly aethiest country like New Zealand we see it for what it has become, a mass marketing and corporate holiday. Its not even winter here ... we have Summer over Christmas and feast around the barbeque.

I will wish people a "Merry Christmas", not because I believe in the christian form of the holiday but because chances are the person I am talking to will want it or expect it.

Although it may be bad translations, I feel the anime I have seen represent it best... if it is to be believed the Japanese wish each other "Happy Santa Day". To me that's what Christmas is - a marketing holiday ... Santa was invented by Coca-cola so it fits just fine.


Christmas is one of those times in the year that an entire family can come together from across the country/world to catch up and be together. That is the enduring meaning of the holiday in this rapidly developing aethiest world.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have no problem with being wished a "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" because, like it has been said, Christmas isn't the only kid on the block. What does get me mad is when people aren't allowed to say "Christmas" because other people get mad at it. Watch TV commercials. Songs that were written 200 years ago and more are having words changed. "We wish you a Merry Christmas" should say just that, not "We wish you a happy holidays." Public domain is poublic domain and all that, but write your own damn song. Don't take mine, ruin it and say its everyone's. No, it's not. It's mine. You can have yours, but its not fair to tell me I can't have mine. According to the 2000 Census, 47% of the United States was "Christian." While not the majority, Christianity is still the single largest religious persuasion in the US. Those 133 million people have a right to say "Merry Christmas" if they damn well please. Telling someone they can't excercise their right to freely express their own religious beliefs simply because you don;t like them is not a very "American" thing to do, now is it?

I think "Happy Holidays" is fine as a neutral greeting, but if people want to say "Merry Christmas" to no one in particular, let 'em.
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