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Memetics

 
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Pierrot Le Fou

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Memetics Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Meme: an information pattern, held in an individual's memory, which is capable of being copied to another individual's memory.

Memetics: the theoretical and empirical science that studies the replication, spread and evolution of memes.

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I'm facinated with memes, I think there is also for billions of discussions regarding them, the above definitions are a little vague I know. Basically, a simple way of putting it is that memes are similar to genes in that they replicate from person to person. This metaphor isn't the best tough, because genes are only transimitted from parent to child, while memes can be transimitted between ANY two people, or two animals for that matter.

Some examples of memes in the animal world would be bird songs, and hunting techniques, or they could even be the tools that animals use (i.e. chimpanzees use sticks to fish out insects from their holes.)

Humans on the other hand, heh heh bascally ANYTHING you can think of in society is a meme: religions, language, fashions, songs, techniques, scientific theories and concepts, traditions, etc. Interesting huh?

The defining characteristic of memes as informational patterns, is that they can be replicated in infinate amounts by communications between individuals.

So, thats basically it, I thought I'd try to educate some people on this board as they might share my interest in the field of memetics.

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Anyway, I've been thinking about how people can be just ... well brainwashed by these ideas, I'm sorry if that offended anyone.

I'm no different from any of you in the sense that I follow certain theories and concepts because at some point in my life these memes were passed on to me. We're almost helpless to their impact on us, you cant be a productive member of society if you avoid these. If you did you'd only follow what your Old Brain tells you.

Not to go off topic, but I say Old Brain because there is a new theory on the brain, or brains. Apparently there are three brains: the New Brain which holds all information that isn't a natural instinct (memes), the Old Brain, also known as the Lizard Brain which automates your instinctual behaviors and fixed action patterns (sexual responses, feeding, fighting), and the Limbic System (or Mammalian brain) which regulates emotions; although the Limbic brain is not capable of concious thought like the other 2 it is believed to be the link between them.

ANYWAYS though as I was saying, no matter what, memes will have an impact on your life, unless maybe if you were raised by wolves hehe.

Thanks for reading!
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Meme, form somthing grand to pass-it-along crap in blogs. wonderfull things they are. all hail the mighty meme!
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Pierrot Le Fou

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well ku, what we were talking about in the NGC was infact based on memes. Like how you were saying that you think you need to change your image into the more girly, giggly and slutty type for people to respect you. And from that I'm guessing you're probably a tomboy, but thats awesome you know I get along with tomboys more than girly-girls, as do most guys I know.

See what I'm getting at is femininity, and masculinity are memes. Who the hell decided women should act this way and men should act the other way huh?? Is it based on testosterone? or estrogen? No not at all its just a stupid idea. I for one am not the most masculine of men, I know that for a fact but I'm happy with who I am and dont think I should change that just because some idiot says I'm effeminate; or if that same idiot looks down on you because you're not 'girly' enough.

People are obviously a product of their environment, and even less of genetics you know. Well everyone knows that haha.
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Darko

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Pierrot Le Fou wrote:

Quote:

See what I'm getting at is femininity, and masculinity are memes. Who the hell decided women should act this way and men should act the other way huh?? Is it based on testosterone? or estrogen? No not at all its just a stupid idea. I for one am not the most masculine of men, I know that for a fact but I'm happy with who I am and dont think I should change that just because some idiot says I'm effeminate; or if that same idiot looks down on you because you're not 'girly' enough.


I'm glad someone feels the same way I do. Life would be so dull if everyone acted the same. And I agree that it's easier to get along with someone one's just being themselves. If they're trying to fit into a mold (if you're a girl you HAVE to act girly or whatever) you're never going to get to know the real person.

And...:

Quote:

Meme: an information pattern, held in an individual's memory, which is capable of being copied to another individual's memory.

Memetics: the theoretical and empirical science that studies the replication, spread and evolution of memes.

-
I'm facinated with memes, I think there is also for billions of discussions regarding them, the above definitions are a little vague I know. Basically, a simple way of putting it is that memes are similar to genes in that they replicate from person to person. This metaphor isn't the best tough, because genes are only transimitted from parent to child, while memes can be transimitted between ANY two people, or two animals for that matter.


Ok, wait...I'm not sure I get what memes are...they're basically characteristics we pass onto people...sorta? Like how when people speak the same language but have regional accents (New York etc.). If I were to go to New York and stay there for several years, I would probably acquire that particular accent. That would be an example of a MEME right?

But they can be a number of different things...like the way you sit (cross-legged etc.) or the way you walk. Right?... RIGHT?!! I'm so confused... :cry:

PS: Damn you for putting those damn clowns as your signature!! Vile humans, them clowns are! :x
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Pierrot Le Fou

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yea Darko you got the idea, memes can be used to describe an infinite amount of things. But you see they're not just characteristics, they are much more.

Regional accents like you said are a good example (so is language for that matter), or the very idea that New York would have an impact on you like that. See, the accent, the idea of an accent, and the affect an accent might have on you all have to do with memetics.

Just think of a gene, how a gene affects a person either physically, or chemically, and a meme is similar to a gene on how it replicates, the distinct differences between the two; its something you're not born with, and its something you can change. (i.e. behavioral patterns)

I'd also like to add that if your memory was completely wiped, and you reverted back to a infantile or primal state, all those memes you acquired would be lost.

P.S.: Clowns scare you? Thats a meme...heheh (If you were to convince someone that clowns are vile then you'd be replicating that meme!)
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Darko

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok...yeah I get it now. That is pretty interesting. Where did you hear about them? I've never even heard the term before. Did you take a class on it or read about it in a book or something?

So meme's are acquired through experiences...everyday. That would be weird though...if you could take all those memes away from someone...you'd be a totally different person then wouldn't you? You'd have a clean slate and as the days went by you'd acquire meme's that you didn't in your original infantile state. You wouldn't be the same person. Your whole attitude would be different. If they figured out a way to do that...they could probably fix them psycho murderers so they were...normal again...woah...crazy!

I wonder how many memes I have...I wonder what the average number of meme's a person has...damn! Now I can't stop thinking about it! lol

P.S. Yes...I have a slight fear of clowns...and clown-like penguin villains...damn! another meme acquired. It's like a level-up every time I acquire a meme. lol
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

http://maxwell.lucifer.com/virus/alt.memetics/what.is.html

At that link, you'll find informal definitions of what a meme is. These people are all sociologist gurus and some of their ideas about memetics seem a little conflicting. But at the same time the very science of sociology is open to interpretation. For example one guy says that memes are "viruses of the mind," while another compares memes and the mind to the "programming of a computer," interesting huh?

From what I know, ideas and informational patterns from one person are not considered memes until they are passed on to another. However, if you think about it, all ideas and knowledge you have will in some way have been transmitted to you by others; unless like I said if you were raised in the wild haha. But then again you might acquire memes from animals maybe, it could happen just look at Tarzan! Sorry..

And Darko I gotta' say thats an interesting theory about disturbed or violent people, but remember that most murderers and sexual predators have some sort of mental ailment. Well, pathology is a whole other subject heh, but you know most mental diseases (not all) are genetic. The rare cases of mental diseases not being hereditary are usually brought on by Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and that can happen in many different ways. I dont really know the science of it but I believe that once you become mentally ill (whether from PTSD or certain genes surface these problems), that you are permantly sick. Who knows though, maybe if one were to have their brain mapped and certain patterns wiped from memory then theres a possibilty of a healthy life, even for the most disturbed of people.

Heh, honestly you know the reason I got interested in this science was Metal Gear Solid 3. Now hear me out, at one point the Boss is talking to Snake and says, "The times we live in are our enemies. They are a representation of our leaders and the beliefs of our fellow citizens. So you see our enemies are not enemies who we can fight physically, they are laws and beliefs which are spread in the minds of people." That Kojima is somethin' huh? Anyways though basically the Boss is saying that memes cause war in so many words, and somebody on another forum said that. So I look up the word 'meme' and nowadays find myself wanting to devote a lot of energy to the science of sociology.

At the same time though, ignorance is bliss and I dont think I'd want to delve too deep into the human psyche you know? Disecting a persons ideas and behaviors would make it hard to accept them dont you think? I believe it would change my perspectives for the worse to be honest haha.


Edit: Meme, well as you probably know by now is one of those extremely loose terms. Its almost one of those "bull**it words" you know? Heh, whats interesting, the study of them. The science and conclusions of memetics varies greatly. A simple example is the one you said Darko, with picking up an accent. What affects that though is what I would like to know, how long would it take to pick up something like that? Do you think you've ever replicated a meme?

I know I have in high school, certain people looked up to me and some of them even copied my mannerisms hah. I didn't really know why at the time, I guess its because people are constantly changing and if they see something they admire in another person they mimick that trait. I dont think I could get used to that though, I wouldn't want that kind of power over people.
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