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is craMming multiple runes good for the upcoming suikodens???
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blah1234




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: is craMming multiple runes good for the upcoming suikodens?? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

the purpose of this topic is for me to see the peoples opinions about this matter....... i want to know if you people would think that craming multiple runes at the same time would be cool or not.. just like in suikoden 3.. lol
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Dura Sinai




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think III was a bit of an exception considering it tied into the five elemental powers as part of the plot.

And when you think about it the games do tend to bring in more than one true rune. Simply, in many cases they were not used. Blue Moon Rune, Beast, Soverign, Gate, Dragon etc are all examples of runes that have been reveiled in the plot and even with some storyline importance but not specifically used in battle.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah. I don't think they really crammed all those runes together into one game. They were essential to the plot. The True Fire was the only one that really had the spotlight.

As for the other ones mentioned (beast, blue moon, etc.), they weren't really the main focus of the games that they were in. They all could still have their own stories later on or whatever. Even the true runes that have already had stories could be used again if they are passed to a new owner.

I think it's a good idea to include true runes in the game because it makes the games more interesting.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, obviously it all depends on how they are presented, really. IMHO, a Suikoden would be captivating, fascinating and what not even if there'd be only one true rune, but with a strong meaning behind it.

Like, for example, a rune governing, perhaps, the creatures of the seas. It could stand for the infinite freedom, eternity, and always changing apperance water has, against ever-moving, stale, yet eternal as well, soil.
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, Suikoden II seemed to have the fewest True Runes, with only two - Soul Eater and Punishment. Suikoden II technically had no True Runes that were actually useable by the player character (without loading Suikoden I data, anyway), since the Rune of Bright Shield is only a fragment of the Rune of Beginning...but as others have said, it also contained the Beast Rune, and the Rune of the Night, and the Soul Eater Rune if you loaded data from Suikoden I so you could access McDohl.

In Suikoden I, there were both Gate Runes, the Dragon Rune, the Soul Eater Rune, AND the Sovereign Rune...and Neclord would have had his Night Rune at that time as well, I imagine. In a way, this answers your original question. The general consensus seems to be that Suikoden IV was the weakest installment thus far (or perhaps Tactics? I have not played it...) ...and it featured, to my recollection, the fewest number of True Runes. Seems like having more doesn't detract from the storyline in any way.

The only serious consequence I could see is, once all 27 True Runes have been explored, where the series goes from there. That's a ways down the line, however...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I myself wouldn't mind having a hero bear one of the True Runes that has been revealed but never had by a hero, like the Beast or Wind Runes. They're out there somewhere without bearers, just waiting for the opportunity...

I like having multiple True Runes involved. Every war in Suikoden has had a True Rune on both sides of the war, except for Suikoden 4...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Parallax wrote:
Actually, Suikoden II seemed to have the fewest True Runes, with only two - Soul Eater and Punishment. Suikoden II technically had no True Runes that were actually useable by the player character (without loading Suikoden I data, anyway), since the Rune of Bright Shield is only a fragment of the Rune of Beginning...but as others have said, it also contained the Beast Rune, and the Rune of the Night, and the Soul Eater Rune if you loaded data from Suikoden I so you could access McDohl.

In Suikoden I, there were both Gate Runes, the Dragon Rune, the Soul Eater Rune, AND the Sovereign Rune...and Neclord would have had his Night Rune at that time as well, I imagine. In a way, this answers your original question. The general consensus seems to be that Suikoden IV was the weakest installment thus far (or perhaps Tactics? I have not played it...) ...and it featured, to my recollection, the fewest number of True Runes. Seems like having more doesn't detract from the storyline in any way.

The only serious consequence I could see is, once all 27 True Runes have been explored, where the series goes from there. That's a ways down the line, however...
Suikoden had the Back Gate Rune too... kind of. Also Suikoden I and II had the Moon Rune too.. and Neclord never had the Night Rune (Star Dragon Sword).

Oh and to have an opinion about the topic.. well.. I consider cramming a quite a few True Runes in one Suikoden game better than stretching the game series to Suikoden XXVII.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I didn't like what they did with III when it comes to cramming the true runes in the main rune slot. I know that other games have had a number of true runes appearing at the same time, but never in the same capacity as the featured rune. There simply isn't enough development given to any particular one of those elemental runes, beyond aspects that are common to ALL the true runes.
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Its A Catapult

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thief wrote:
I didn't like what they did with III when it comes to cramming the true runes in the main rune slot. I know that other games have had a number of true runes appearing at the same time, but never in the same capacity as the featured rune. There simply isn't enough development given to any particular one of those elemental runes, beyond aspects that are common to ALL the true runes.


How much can you develope an elemental rune...it's not complex like the RoP or Soul Eater...

Besides, they did a great job with the runes in that game, like I was shocked wehn Geddoe revealed he was the bearer of the TLR and if you use him as a FC Luc even says something like "you know what its like to be a true rune bearer"...etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, yeah, it is kind of hard to draw emotion from a True Elemental Rune. The Soul Eater, Punishment Rune, and Beginning Rune all have larger concepts and emotions tied to them. The True Elemental Runes were about the elemental forces of nature. Plus, if they had just introduced the True Fire Rune alone it would have unbalanced gameplay.
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Parallax

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zaj wrote:
Suikoden had the Back Gate Rune too... kind of. Also Suikoden I and II had the Moon Rune too.. and Neclord never had the Night Rune (Star Dragon Sword).

Oh and to have an opinion about the topic.. well.. I consider cramming a quite a few True Runes in one Suikoden game better than stretching the game series to Suikoden XXVII.


You're right, I was confusing Runes...it's been awhile since I've played either game. Both games had the Night Rune as well as the Moon Rune...and I agree, having there be some infinite number of Suikodens seems silly. From a business perspective, Konami probably wants to make it last as long as they possibly can, which they could technically do by making more Suikoden IV type games...

Erm...but Suikoden I, II, III, and now V, all take place in a somewhat more interconnected period of time, forming one core story, which shared elements (like the ever mysterious Yuber and Pesmerga...) ...and that particular time period has to time out sometime, right?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In a word, I don't think Konami has ever "crammed" runes into a game. As I can tell every true rune in the suikoden series has had a specific purpose. Many important characters are True Rune bearers in multiple installments, Yuber...Leknaat...Neclord...Zodiac Sword...Luc...Sassarai...Ted(who was also in S4)...My point is these characters are a part of suikoden and having them in whichever installment was either necessary for storyline advancement or a great bonus. S4 only happened to have Two true runes, The Rune of Punishment and the Soul Eater. However I don't think it needed any other True Runes, the rune of punishment become such a focal point for the game and the storyling that it easily carried the True Rune aspects of the game. Give credit where credit is due, S3 had the most true runes, but really only the True Fire Rune was the focal point, the others were there for a sense of balance and for storyline. In future installments one of the other True Runes could easily be the tenkai stars and the focal point. All in all I would say I don't feel konami has "crammed" a rune into one of their games yet so, I wouldn't know how it would effect the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I don't know. True Fire was the focus of III, and True Wind was the main antagonist's rune, but the other three didn't really stand out individually. Despite their "co-main" status, they felt like nothing more than those two halves of Gate Rune in the first game.

Of course, one difference would probably that they're actually playable, but that shouldn't be the only criteria for "balance". It's not balanced at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It was more a balance for storyline if you ask me. Luc needed to destroy his rune.. and if one other true elemental rune could do it, I would think it would seem a tad too easy to do. Thus, he needed all of the elemental runes. While maybe even that wouldn't have worked had he got the chance to try, it seems more believeable in the long run.

As for the topic.. basically it all depends. Suikoden III worked with it's collection of elemental runes, which seemed like more that other games, just because you had direct use of them. Suikoden IV had only two, and while I feel it is the weak part of the series, I don't think the rune choices are the cause of that. I find if the focus works and it doesn't clutter things up and the true runes we do see are developed, then it works. Just because there may be more runes in one game than another, I don't think it counts as clutter really.. just as long as they're dealt with in accordance to the plot.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that Cramming true runes is not a good idea because it isn;t a good idea to end the series until the game starts to lose money andd bores everyone so i think they should bring in as few runes as possible to keep the game going
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