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Building a better RPG: Let's make some babies!
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Building a better RPG: Let's make some babies! Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The other topic dealt with how violence, especifically combat, in videogames have become either too repetitive or the crutch developers use to make a dynamic game. Now we go to the other side of things when it comes to videogames.

RPGs have always been about storytelling and raising your character and his/her companions abilities. Some rpgs even have your character being teenagers or young enough that there's personality and emotional growth as the game progresses toward's its inevitable conclusion. There's been some past rpgs where romance and relationships have been part of the game. Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel actually allowed players to romance and/or dominate companions of the opposite sex. Jade Empire took that and even went beyond by breaking down the barrier of gender when it came to romance. Lionhead Studios' Fable actually allowed players to go from town to town to woo and marry women. A PS1 game called Thousand Arms was practically a dating sim rpg where wooing and romancing women were integral to crafting new gear and weapons.

What all these examples have in common outside of the romantic angle is the fact that for all the lovey-dovey stuff there is no conclusion to the relationship. I understand that most games are T-rated, but with more gamers growing up to be adults where's the games which takes the next step and actually allows for couples to not just marry but create families. RPG's have always been about creating tension and situations the hero must solve to save the world and those they care for. What's a bigger incentive for a hero but to save his newborn baby and wife.

The PS3 will be getting a game in the future called Record of Agarest War which actually puts the romance angle and adds making babies to the equation. A player can create (or breed) his heir by hooking up with one of several female NPCs in the game. There's no H-game sequences once the player has successfully achieved his wooing, but then again the only thing that keeps a mainstream game from an H-game is full-blown sex sequences being shown.

Building a better RPG: Let's make babies! by Leigh Alexander of Destructoid

She brings up some good points that maybe it is time to push the RPG to the next level and still keep it from becoming an H-game. Such an addition to M-rated RPGs (which we don't have enough of) would add a new emotional dimension, not to mention levelling mechanics, to a genre of games which have become stagnant when it comes to new and innovative additions to a game.

So, anyone else agree, or disagree about such changes or additions to the tried-and-true rpg gameplay?
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Demon Eyes Kyo

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree. I actually like little things like that. New of this upcoming game for PS3 makes me anticipate it so badly. xD
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Leb

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This idea was already used in Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War on the Super Nintendo, which was also a Strategy-RPG. When Sigurd (the first protagonist) is ambushed and killed, the game fast-forwards to when his infant son is a teenager. Selis' mother is always the same (this is important to the story since Selis will end up having two half-siblings), but other characters that joined Sigurd can fall in love and have children of their own. Depending on who the significant other is, the child will inherit certain abilities from their bloodlines. Beyond that, those children as young adults can also fall in love and improve their critical hit rates when standing near each other.

Just look for Fire Emblem IV guides. People have the heritage down to a science so that every child has the best skills possible that fit with each of their classes.
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Ranadiel

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To add some more games that have had characters get married and have a kid during the course of the game, there was also Phantasy Star 3 and Romancing Sa-ga 2. In Phantasy Star 3, you go through three(I think) generations of characters. After you complete the first generation storyline, you choose one of two females to marry and then the next generation has your son as the main character. I haven't played Romancing Sa-ga 2, but from what I read it seems to expand a the whole generation thing over hundreds of years, so I don't know how strong the romance element is in this game.

Another game, which was brought up in the comments on the article, was Lufia 2 where the main character and his love interest get married and have a son during the course of game(although I cant recall the son having any important role int he game). Then there is of course Dragon Quest V where you have two choices for a wife and end up with your son and daughter as party members late in the game. Unfortunatly a pattern you might notice is that all these games were for the SNES.

I personally would love a return, even if it was only in games made by a niche company, to this sort of system. Ever since I discovered the generational games, they have been among my favorites, well the system at least....I think Fire Emblem was the only one listed so far that did it really well. I don't know if I would say that it makes for better games, but it defintaly can be an extremely interesting system when properly used. As a side note, I really hope that Record of Agarest War will get translated because it looks like a great game.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ranadiel wrote:
Another game, which was brought up in the comments on the article, was Lufia 2 where the main character and his love interest get married and have a son during the course of game(although I cant recall the son having any important role in the game).

Technically, the son had an enormous impact on the game, as his very existence is what leads to the second half.

Maxim, after killing Gades, was supposed to die in the tower where the battle took place, which would have been the end of it all, and peace would have reigned, etc, etc, etc. But Maxim was saved and married Selan, and had a baby, which carried his bloodline on, and enabled Gades and the other Sinistrals to be revived.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't see how having kids will add that much to the rpg playing dynamic. I play rpgs to role play and for awesome battles, not to have kids.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I actually like a sense of linearity in video games, I like the choice being there but I don't think we should be given too much freedom as generally we become complacent and bored without having a hand to guide us into the unexpected. It is nice that there is an element of becoming a parent in a video game but honestly I'm not thinking about buying one based off whether or not I can have children in it.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
I actually like a sense of linearity in video games, I like the choice being there but I don't think we should be given too much freedom as generally we become complacent and bored without having a hand to guide us into the unexpected. It is nice that there is an element of becoming a parent in a video game but honestly I'm not thinking about buying one based off whether or not I can have children in it.


I agree with you on having way too much freedom in an rpg. Even with Oblivion had too much freedom despite being a bit more linear than its predecessor, Morrowind. While I, myself, enjoyed the freedom to finish the main quest at my own pace, but at the same time do sidequests which were interesting, most people I know who stopped playing the game without beating it was due to not being handheld from start to finish. There are rpg gamers who want to be handheld from start to finish and be told what to do.

I wouldn't buy a game just because something like a dating sim and/or mating gameplay mechanic was added. If this new addition was integral to the overall experience of the game and done well then it becomes an extra bonus to enjoying the game. I do agree that putting such additions to rpgs is a refreshin thing, but only when done well and not because it makes the game stand out fro the rest of the pack. Sometimes there's comfort in seeing the familiar. I think there's always room in the middle between tried-and-true familiarity in rpgs with little-used innovations.

Himuro wrote:
I don't see how having kids will add that much to the rpg playing dynamic. I play rpgs to role play and for awesome battles, not to have kids.


I don't think recommending an innovation as having kids in rpgs was meant as the main selling point for rpgs. I always thought it was the storyline which was what made loyal rpg players always coming back to playing rpgs. I'm sure an rpg with a well-done combat and battle-system makes the overall experience better than an rpg which has a great story but a battle system which sucks.
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I said role play too. Having kids isn't my idea of fun role playing, but I guess it depends on how it's pulled off. If it's anything like Viva Pinata, where you can sell your kids, and have multiple relationships with multiple people that'd be awesome I guess.

There are different types of rpg players though. Some mostly want to play for the gameplay, the others for the story. I'm not the type of guy who thinks rpgs shouldn't have story at all but they're definitely second place for me. Although, creating kids is more in line with gameplay than story if you the option to create them.

Quote:
I'm sure an rpg with a well-done combat and battle-system makes the overall experience better than an rpg which has a great story but a battle system which sucks.


You are correct.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can't think of a way of adding babies into an RPG that wouldn't come off as a mini-game or as unemotional story telling. Given that the game would have to have some sort of set system and children wouldn't vastly change this system, each child you get would come off as the same but with slight variations to a story- making the child become more gimmicky and less an emotional attachment.

Maybe if having a child completely changed the game genre- you start as a knight and find a girl, make a baby, and then live life as a farmer- going from FFVII to Harvest Moon, but that might be strange.
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Last edited by Timbo on Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think rpgs who can pull this addition of making babies in the game would be ongoing series. Maybe one of the Japanese studios decide to start up a new rpg franchise and this new gameplay mechanice is integral to the series overall appeal. The first game in the series can have the player marry someone in the game and have a child. Before anything else can occur the child will be a combination of the stats of the father and mother. Without fleshing out all the detail here that child could then become part of the saved file of the finish game which could be ported over to the next game in the series. Thus the child sired by the player's character will become the main protagonist of the next game.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that'd just become an effort to max/min yourself in the next game. I think yould have to add something thing in drastically changing the story itself in the first game, by doing more with your 'love interest'. Maybe something along the lines of joining one side of a war, the other side of the war or completely avoiding the war to be with the love interest you choose and having the baby be a final result or goal of the game.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That could work as well. In the end, the addition of this type of mechanic to the gameplay is doable beyond the fanservice aspect of other type of rpgs that have tried to implement a sort of dating sim factor to the proceedings. If the developers and writers put effort into it I'm sure they can implement it without having it looked tacked on or too gimmicky.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't know why, but I find myself strangely drawn to this game. Maybe it's because of the gorgeous art, which I find freakishly amazing and I've seen some damn good art. Maybe it's because recently I've had a weird string of game ideas that all involve different endings based on which character your main ends up most compatible with. I have no idea why but I am very interested in this game. Hell it may be the only reason other then Suikoden VI I'd ever get a PS3. Sadly I doubt a port would come which makes me sad, I can only hope I somehow end up lucky in the long run.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I really like some of the ideas people have come up with int his topic.

First of all the genre-changing game would be really interesting. Somthing where you start out as a nameless, unemployed person, (maybe in a medieval setting) and based on who you talk to or what you choose to do the game could branch into different genres. (Knight/Fighter for RPG, Doctor/Farmer for various kinds of simulation genres, Merchant/Alchemist for Atelier style games etc.). That could be really amazing if well done.

I also like the idea where you have various love interests, but with completely different storylines based on who you choose. Then you could have different children (which would also be vastly different) which you port to the second game to change that game's experience as well.
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