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Darkillumina
The Red Army
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jowy wasn't neccessarily wrong he just had a different perspective of the events unfolding in Dunan and he had his own particular view on how to deal with these events. It's good to corroborate this with a real life example.
Take George W. for instance. He believes in his heart what he is doing is right, while on the other hand the freedom fighters in Iraq believe what they are doing is right.
Jowy was most likely in this same boat, but I believe Jowy was right when he said that there could be no room for both Highland and Jowston. Yes he could have made peace with Riou, but what would happen when they persihed? It would only be a matter of time before a power hungry ruler came to power and the circle of bloodshed would repeat all over again. At least if only one nation was left remaining then there would be no future conflicts over the land. Jowy said it best when he said "let our war be the last to ever be wrought upon this land." (Or something to that extent.)
If only one were remaining there would be no more internal wars between two seperate parties residing in the same region. (Higheast doesn't really count)
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PirateSigurd
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa its Rick James on Suikoden!! hahaha! j/k
Jowy was evil, man at a time I didnt like him either, he stabbed Jillia on that altar, didnt he?
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Hawk Thanatos
Radical Dreamers
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| PirateSigurd wrote: |
Whoa its Rick James on Suikoden!! hahaha! j/k
Jowy was evil, man at a time I didnt like him either, he stabbed Jillia on that altar, didnt he? |
That was just one of the many dolls Jowy has for when Jillia has a 'headache' |
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Dragonstar13
13th Dragon brigade
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| hawkthanatos wrote: |
| PirateSigurd wrote: |
Whoa its Rick James on Suikoden!! hahaha! j/k
Jowy was evil, man at a time I didnt like him either, he stabbed Jillia on that altar, didnt he? |
That was just one of the many dolls Jowy has for when Jillia has a 'headache' |
Was this mentioned in the Gaiden stories? I remember the doll being mentioned right after ceremony, but I don't remember her or anyone else mentioning her having headaches.
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Hawk Thanatos
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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It was a joke, while yes they do use a doll for the ceremony I was talking about dolls that some guys have. And the 'headaches' don't exist they're all lies.
And if you understand that then I'll be very surprised cause I wrote it and I can't even make sense of it. |
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PirateSigurd
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: |
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I think it was trying to be funny, saying Jowy uses a blown up doll of Jillia of some sort.
But yeah Suikoden is base vastly of just on views, not always about good or evil, its just how you view the people.. they believe what they're doing is for the good of others and themselves.
like in IV, who's to say Kooluk is bad?
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"The Blood of the sea flows through my veins, I return to it now to be reborn" Troy |
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Djungelurban
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| I'm a huge Jowy supporter. I'm not even sure that I wanna call him villain since the guy basically is just like Riou, only on the other side. |
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skymansxeno
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I have mixed feelings about Jowy. I think he was just a neccessary evil is all. I would have liked him and Roui to joins hands as nations at the turning point of the game but in all honesty, it would have never worked. The two nations just could never get along and would probably war for a long time time until one them was snuffed out anyways.
I think Jowy was neccessary to carry along so that the land could have peace...at least up until the High East Reb. |
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Ray Grievous
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I thought he killed Annabelle because Luca Blight threatened his family?
Excuse me if I am mistaken, or if it has been aforementioned.
--Ray |
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Keo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jowy is a good person deep down the deson why he killed aneyble was to help stop the war and to be able to join highland to fight the fight from the inside and when he became king he didnt use that power for bad he stoped the war with his powers as king so to say hes a bad caraceter is untoughtful and uncalled for. |
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Dynast
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Ray Grievous wrote: |
I thought he killed Annabelle because Luca Blight threatened his family?
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That's strange...I don't seem to remember reading anything of the sort. As far as I know, Jowy changed sides after your recon mission to Highland (in which you enter the supplies tent on a supposed errand to 'fetch butter'. Interesting sercurity) as he said that he had grown a little 'envious' of the power that Luca wielded.
At least, that's what I remember he said. :o
As for what I feel about Jowy and his subsequent actions after he defected to Highland...I feel that what he did wasn't wrong. Look at it this way: his actions were almost similar to that of Riou's, except that he was fighting against you. Both of you engaged in war, leading to the slaughter of thousands in the battlefield. And yet, Riou was never blamed for the death of the Highlanders- because as the saying goes, 'history is written by the winners'.
With the victory of the City-State over Highland, it was then written in stone that Jowy was nothing more than an 'evil king', a 'traitor'. Yet, how 'evil' truly was he? He didn't kill thousands and raid villages like Luca- he prefered to take a more peaceful route by letting the towns and villages surrender on their own accord. He didn't even kill Jillia even though he knew that his troops would be severely demoralised if he hadn't performed that fake sacrifice.
In reality, Jowy was as peace-loving as Riou, yet his priority was his homeland and not ending the war on peaceful terms, unlike Riou. Jowy was fully aware that if he did make a peace pact with Riou, it could lead to a rebellion by the Highland citizens as he would be seen as 'handing' the country over to the City-State. Remember that only very few people were aware of the fact that the Unicorn Brigade massacre wasn't done by the City-State. In short, had Jowy decided to end the entire thing with a pact, he would be facing a possible uprising which would probably lead to a fate worse than Luca Blight could ever have done.
So...no, I don't hate Jowy. He probably made a bad decision by joining Luca, but he had good intentions, which redeems him. |
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Aurelien
20.01.08
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dynast wrote: |
| Look at it this way: his actions were almost similar to that of Riou's, except that he was fighting against you. Both of you engaged in war, leading to the slaughter of thousands in the battlefield. And yet, Riou was never blamed for the death of the Highlanders- because as the saying goes, 'history is written by the winners'. |
I disagree on this one. Yes both Riou and Jowy led an army and ended up killing thousands of soldiers. But the difference is that Riou was practically forced to do what he did because there was no other possible solution on his hands. He tried every possible (reasonable) way to end the war that would benefit both nations, but always met with resistance from Highland's side. Riou was forced to fight (and defeat) Highland. It was never his intention to start/continue a war. He simply had to do it to survive. That's why no one blamed Riou.
It's like if you got beaten up on the streets. You can't just let yourself got beaten for nothing. You'd end up having to defend yourself, and to stop the beating from them, you'd have to beat them up so that they cannot beat you up. Same with Riou, he only led City-States of Jowston to beat Highland because if they don't beat Highland, Highland won't stop.
| Dynast wrote: |
| With the victory of the City-State over Highland, it was then written in stone that Jowy was nothing more than an 'evil king', a 'traitor'. Yet, how 'evil' truly was he? |
I'm actually not sure who labeled Jowy as "evil king" or "traitor" ... if I remember correctly, it was the Highland citizens (in Sajah or Kyaro?) that basically were very disappointed with King Jowy's incompetence of leading the nation that led to their defeat. Personally, I think Jowy simply bit more than he could chew.
| Dynast wrote: |
| Jowy was fully aware that if he did make a peace pact with Riou, it could lead to a rebellion by the Highland citizens as he would be seen as 'handing' the country over to the City-State. |
Why would people see the peace treaty as "handing" Highland to Jowston? If peace treaty were signed, both Highland and Jowston would still be separate nations, just not in war with one another. If I remember correctly, even the people in Highland were already tired of the constant war. The people simply wanted to stop having wars. Jowy had his chance to end it peacefully, but he blew it.
| Dyanst wrote: |
| Remember that only very few people were aware of the fact that the Unicorn Brigade massacre wasn't done by the City-State. |
I think this kind of proves that the winner didn't always write the history as they wanted to. I don't think it was ever cleared that Unicorn Brigade massacre was not done by Jowston, despite Jowston being the victor of Dunan Unification War.
In the end, I don't think Jowy is evil, but just utterly stupid by making things far too complicated when there's a much easier (could be better) solution. So yeah, I dislike Jowy.
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Starslasher
Chunks of Chaco-late.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: |
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We pretty much know that Jowy defected to the Highland Kingdom for the chance to bring the downfall on the raving mad Luca. But he didn't anticiapte being needed by the Highland Kingdom, and so had brought on himself a huge responsibility to defend the Kingdom and therefore defeat the City States. Perhaps if Seed and Culgan didn't pledge their loyalties to him, he would have considered running away himself.
I like Jowy, since he seems to really believe in fate. After all, fate's pretty much the name of the game in Suikoden, isn't it?
| Black Pesmerga wrote: |
| If peace treaty were signed, both Highland and Jowston would still be separate nations, just not in war with one another. |
It was agreed upon by Jowy, Leon and even Shu that the two countries have gotten two big for the region. A peace treaty wouldn't be absolute, and war would just resume after a falso hope of peace. So both Leon and Shu planned for the defeat of the enemy country.
I would personally would have agreed to a peace treaty, but Leopn and Shu decided to gamble the future of their own country in hopes to bring total peace to the region.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Starslasher wrote: |
| A peace treaty wouldn't be absolute, and war would just resume after a falso hope of peace. |
This is something that cannot be said whether it's true or wrong because it didn't get the chance to happen. But as we can see from the previous peace treaty, it was Luca Blight that initiated the break of the treaty (though disguised as Jowston). So Jowy could safely assume that Jowston never had any intention whatsoever to conquer Highland at that time. With Riou being the new leader, there was even less chance for Jowston to try to conquer Highland. So the ball was definitely in Jowy's court. He had the power, he was the King of Highland. What he said would be supported. Instead of using his power to promote peace, he used his power to prolong the war by trying to conquer Jowston (which would not just give up without fighting). In short, he blew his chance to bring peace to both nations.
And I disagree that conquering the other nation is the only way to bring peace. This is clearly proven wrong by the Higheast/Highland Rebellion that occurred afterwards. So Jowston conquered Highland, and rebellion occurred. Where's the everlasting peace? If Highland conquered Jowston, there would be Jowston Rebellion. Still no peace.
If peace treaty was signed, both Jowy and Riou would have the power of the two nations. Any issues could be negotiated instead of fought for. By letting one nation conquering the other, the loser had no power anymore. In this case, Jowy could not control Highland people anymore. Hence, leading to the rebellion (that Jowy might not want to happen but he couldn't do a darn thing then because he's not the king).
Jowy had the power. Jowy could have made a difference. Jowy picked the wrong choice. Jowy screwed things up due to his stupidity.
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Dragonstar13
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ray Grievous wrote: |
I thought he killed Annabelle because Luca Blight threatened his family?
Excuse me if I am mistaken, or if it has been aforementioned.
--Ray |
No, unless there has been some information released that I'm not aware of, I don't think Jowy was thinking of his family. When Jowy tried to go home, his family sold him out. So I assume they abandoned any knowledge of him being their son.
Jowy stated he envied Luca's power when he met him. The reason he killed Annabelle could of been for his own life, as well as him being able to get into power. I agree with Black Pesmerga, and that Jowy had too much power for him to handle. He's reasons maybe noble, but his path wasn't. Jowy's realistic, he made mistakes, and like most people in his position, he lost sight of what he originally wanted to do.
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