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are suikoden war tactics compatable with our own world?
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: are suikoden war tactics compatable with our own world? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

seeing as how my post "colored characters for s4" was so offencive and the tile too short (it shouod of been "collect them all, color coded characters for s4"

I decide to post this, the insides are short and the outside is a banning-offencive legnth. so here we go.
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can suikoden war tactics be revelent to our world? Like what happend when Highland gave back captives while knowing food supplies were low, or prehaps that story tidbit was to amplyfy the dark, animalistic side of mankind?
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Gustav Pendragon




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

actually you'd be very surprised how realistic the tactics used are. For example, the move you mentioned was used originally by Julius Caesar to end a siege in Gaul, although the name of it escapes from me at the moment. Something else that comes to mind is the use of dolls by Cecile when the Zexen's are coming to convince them to withdraw some of their forces. This was used by a feudal Japanese commander (name escapes me again) who used the tactic to help fend off a siege of a far superior force.
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iscalio




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Both mentioned cases are uses of the 36 stratagems of Chinese lore. Jowy's strategy is an application of stratagem no. 33, whereas Cecile makes use of no. 29.

Both stratagems were used in many cases in "the real world".


So, to answer your question: Of course they are.
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Gwendal




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They might have been compatible with our world once, but I doubt most of them will be of much use in a high-tech war.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

wow.
can you all rerember these if I ever make my web page (its one that'll show us symbolism, namesakes, orgin of ideas and the likes for vidio games, as well as intellectual disscussion of spirtual, sociological and metaphysical aspects of the storyline)

One of the best suiko tactics unfortunality cannot be applied, such as Harmonia using phantoms to stir up war 'tween Grassland and the Zexen nation.

what about the poision dealy with jowy? that was nifty. I heard that some people way back when would build up slight immunitys to poisions (cannot trust those neighbors eh?) but all else is unknown.
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Alucard

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. In the war from the backstabbing age we live in? NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is the honer in todays warfare???
-first we bomb em till 20% of the enemy remains and then we send on forces!
-> lame loserstyle if you ask me

2. In the midevil ages? Sure they could be used anytime !!!
In the midevil ages there where no long ranged (not like todays range) weapons.
They where bound to close combat and where in need of great tactics.
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Gwendal




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

nanami-san wrote:
1. In the war from the backstabbing age we live in? NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is the honer in todays warfare???
-first we bomb em till 20% of the enemy remains and then we send on forces!
-> lame loserstyle if you ask me

2. In the midevil ages? Sure they could be used anytime !!!
In the midevil ages there where no long ranged (not like todays range) weapons.
They where bound to close combat and where in need of great tactics.


Why risk the lives of your men if you can weaken the enemy from a distance? Preserving the lives of your soldiers isn`t lame. And they had catapults, as well as bows which could be used to take off a lot of % from the opposing army.
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Gustav Pendragon




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

we are actually still trying to define what is modern warfare and how wars in the future are going to be waged. Although aerial bombardment is a very nice thing to have it does not equate victory in modern warfare anymore, Vietnam brought that lesson home very hard. At the moment it will be very interesting to see those new stryker battalions in action, although their effectiviness in battle is far from a certain thing at this point. In my opinion we really are entering into another age of warfare, and like other new ages in combat it will render a great deal of the old tactics obsolete.
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Darkmagus




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do you think that the tactics Shu used in the battle against Solon Jhee can be used today? It shouldn't be that hard as long as the conditions are right. If you can infiltrate the enemy and spread those rumors then it's possible along with being on a peninsula and sneaking behind the enemy, right?
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Angelus Silverberg




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Absolutely, especially with all the spies and stealth we have today
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Gustav Pendragon




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

rear guard ambushes like that are pretty hard to pull off, if the unit is detected at all before the opportune time they would be crushed easily. Of course, if they succeed they can cause some very serious damage to the enemy. Special forces have become quite commonplace to distrupt enemy activity behind enemy lines, which is somewhat similar to Shu's move.

Here is another parallel from a Shu tactic to modern day warfare. One of the moves by Shu was a three pronged assault, taking Greenhill, hitting Muse, and having Kiba threaten Highland from the Mercenary base. The basic thought was to distract the enemy with an apparent threat to his most important objective while taking two other less prestiges but vital objectives in the process. This was the same action used by the US forces on the drive to Baghdad. A central highway connects Baghdad down to Basra and had been secured by US forces. It was the quickest way to Baghdad by far, so Iraqi forces figured that the US would spend a great deal of force moving along it. So when they saw a US battalion moving forwards, along with facing a great deal of the aerial bombardment, they figured that is where the thrust of the attack would be. However, while the Iraqi's were busy fighting this battalion the 1st Marine Expeditionary force and the 3rd armoured were able to complete their flanking movements. The marines managed to get their forces across the Tigris an routed one of the Republican Guard divisions, securing a straight path into eastern Baghdad. Meanwhile the 3rd armoured who had been relatively unengaged and undetected, having moved across the desert, managed to get across Fallujah and secure a path straight to the western half of Baghdad, effectively closing it in a pincer. At this point with Baghdad caught in the middle the forces that were moving against the lone battalion pretty much melted away into the population, the city falling soon after. As you can see the idea of a feint to the main objective to secure to other objectives was used quite effectively by both Shu and Gen Franks.
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Daniel Blackhand

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the tactics can be used in real life and also give the series another link to a more realistic game than the others of it's kind.
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Filipe

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With the capabilities of todays modern warfare there is absolutely no way most of these tactics will work now. Handing over prisoners to over populate a town would not work as that would just give them more men to fight you with and they are smart enough to ration food now. However in the past it would be very likely these tactics would work to an extent and yes Julius Ceasar used that food tactic in the past to success but that was then and this is now and if only things were that easy.
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Gustav Pendragon




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

well, the use of civilians as human shields has become a common enough practice with somewhat success. Although times have changed the exploitation of civilians as a factor on the battlefield has endured into the 21st century.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

cool, I never thought I'd bring about intellegent convercation, If I were smarter I'd go into stragity tactics, but the only thing I can do is say "is this stragity workable" list the stragity, then write it into a story.

I guess, false peace treaties are a good one, if your opponient is gullible enough to belive you want ot be friends and have a banquit.....and then stupid enough to realize that they -stress- you eat first and you'll have what is left..."its your party" they say "we want to be friends, so eat untill you are full and jolly we don't mind"

then you know, gag, gag, internal bleeding, spazam.
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