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Leknaat's role in Suikoden IV
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject: Leknaat's role in Suikoden IV Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is how it goes. Leknaat is the "self-proclaimed" Executor of Balance. She plays an important role in the first 2 games.

In 1, that whole story kinda hinges around Leknaat and her sister, Windy. In 2, she helps Riou in his quest to find peac in the kingdom. I won't even go to the point in which she did not make any contribution at all for thr Fire Bringer War in 3.

This thread is intended to target at her role in the Island Nations War in 4. Throughout the game, if all goes well, we get to see our dear Executor of Balance a mear 3 times: First, when the hero first inherits the True Rune of Punishment, second, when Ted regains the Soul Eater Rune, and third, just before the final battle at El-Eal she appears to say that the rune has left the stage of atonement and now into forgiveness phase.

What was her true role in the war? I mean, she just appears 3 times and she is supposed to keep balance? Worst is that she only appears 3 time in the event all 108 characters are recruited (If Ted is not recruited, she only appears once).

As compared to 2, how much has she helped in infroming the hero of the current situation? The hero had to actually find out for himself and in 2, she told Riou and Jowy all they needed to know. Talk about biasedness...

What do you guys think?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think we must factor in the fact that Suikoden 4 takes place 150 years before Suikoden 1. Leknaat would hav learned far more about various things during that time, as well as unerstanding her own role in relation to true runes. If you read what Leknaat says, she doesn't call herself "Executor of Balance" during Suikoden 4. It is possible that she hasn't come to se herself as such until later.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That seems like a pretty good explanation. Perhaps in the earlier years she was more of an observer, maybe gathering information on all the true runes. How they affect each bearer and the world around them.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with the two previous answers. I believe it was more a matter of Leknaat not being sure of how she came into the equation. I think she was still rather 'young' at that period in which she did not have the level of understanding that she does now. Of course, I think that Leknaat has a more nefarious goal in the future. The fact that she seems to understand and move things to the proper 'balance' concerns me as she has more power than should be allowed for a mere mortal.

A lot of her actions concern me. I believe that she took a more hands off approach in Suikoden 3 because it was a personal war that involved Luc trying to fight against the flow of 'Balance'. I think Leknaat was interested in finding out if a mere mortal could in fact alter the fate he was destined. I think she let Luc proceed as an experiment of sorts. I believe that Leknaat knew that Luc could not fight against what Fate had designed for him and ultimately would fail in his struggle. The Balance was not in threat therefore she felt no need to intervene.

In Suikoden 2 she took a more hands on role much like in Suikoden 1. I think she was concerned with the effects the possible rebirth of the Rune of Beginning would have on the 'Balance' of the world. I don't think she was interested in the war efforts at all, but more on how those two children could bend Fate with the force of their will. I think that concerned her and you see her pushing Riou in different directions throughout the game. She did a great deal of manipulation on his young mind. I believe that she was truly concerned that he could disrupt the Balance which she had envisioned.

In Suikoden 1, I think it was more personal. Leknaat saw the threat Windy proposed on the 'Balance'. I think she was more comfortable in her role at that particular juncture do to her role as the Astrologist or whatever she was at that time. I believe she had began to understand what direction the world needed to be guided towards. I think she had a better grasp of the way to attain Balance and she needed to make sure Windy would not tamper with the Balance by attaining another True Rune and becoming immeasurably powerful. Again, I think she still did a great deal of manipulation but not as much as in the later games. At this time I think she was coming into her own, but she was still unsure and feared Windy greatly. That's why her interferences were considerably lower than in Suikoden 2.

So, in Suikoden 4, I believe her lack of guidance is understandable. She was relatively new to her goals and probably lacked the amount of understanding to properly guide Hero 4. Therefore, her amount of manipulation was limited as well. Leknaat tends to only act when the Balance is threatened. Therefore, if she did not truly understand the path to Balance, which I believe she did not have a firm grasp of at the time of Suikoden 4, then she could not properly get involved.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't really believe Leknaat did much of anything in S2. She keeps appearing in Riou's room in the middle of the night to give him pep talks. She mentions the first time she appears that the Runes will bring turmoil, then later mentions that they will cause Riou and Jowy to fight, but after that, the other times she appears (Tinto and Rockaxe) she just tells Riou not to give up because "so much is riding on him." Then she breaks the seal on the Rune and does the whole Nanami thing on her last two appearances.

She actually participates in the war in S1 since she has a personal stake in it. She stays out of S3 for the same reason.

I think she stayed out of S4 because the Rune of Punishment's objectives didn;t threaten un anbalance things like the Rune of Beginning's does. When the 108 stars gather together in opposition to the will of a True Rune, Leknaat is called forth to action. In 4 she only appeared when she was needed. The first time to start the gathering, the second time to assure the Soul Eater would return to the world (that would hav an effect on balance I think) and third to tell Konami that the 108 stars had subdued the will of the Rune of Punishment.

I have always pictured the Suiko games to be the conflict between the True Runes and the 108 stars. Leknaat is the person who facilitates that conflict.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARS Ad-minh wrote:

If you read what Leknaat says, she doesn't call herself "Executor of Balance" during Suikoden 4

Actually, it was the fog ship guide that called her that... So one can argue she doesn't already has that role...

And truthfully, I wouldn't call being at least 180 years old (My estimated age for her) at the time of suikoden 4 would mean that she is still young and inexperienced... :)

In 4, the fact that she appeared before the hero4 proved she already knows her role... If not, why would she even care about the welfare of the Rune of Punishment and its bearer? If she lacked the "knowledge" of the path to balance at the time, it doesn't make sense for her to appear at the time at all...
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm gona be honest I always felt that Leknaat's role in S2-S4 a little forced to me. It's not a big deal Konamy was just striving for links across the board and I can forgive them but I have this fear that Leknaat, Viki, and Jeane will only bring Suikoden closer to Final Fantasy XXIV(Or what damn game they are on this month)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Solar Year 70: Destruction of the Gate Rune Clan
Seeking the Gate Rune, Harmonian soldiers massacred the Gate Rune Clan. Windy and Leknaat managed to escape and divided the Gate rune. Leknaat lost her sight in the process, but Windy and Leknaat were able to escape in separate directions to hide from Harmonia.

Solar Year 305: Island Nations Established
In response to rapid southward aggression and the annihilation of Iluya by the hands of the Kooluk Empire, forces from Razril, Kingdom of Obel, and other surrounding islands including pirates band together. After numerous battles, the Kooluk naval forces are destroyed, resulting in kooluk abandoning its southward ambitions. The islands that banded together for the struggle against Kooluk form the Island Nations Federation. At the same time, Rune Cannons are abandoned for naval warfare purposes due to it being considered "too dangerous."

With this information we can conclude that Leknaat was roughly around the age of 250 when the events of Suikoden 4. Within that 230 years they were trying to escape from Harmonia.

Leknaat within 230 years has done nothing? i don't believe so. I would have to agree with Siertes, that she was more of an observer. But then why did the creature (or was it Ted?) say she is the "Exector of Balance". I would have to believe that her Back Gate Rune which allows her to summon monsters would explain why the monster would know her. And if Ted said it....they met before?

I think it is her position within the Scarlet Moon Empire, which allowed her to help in Suikoden 1 & 2. Also Tir and Riou were both naive and needed guidance to restore "balance" to the world.
If she didn't help in Suikoden 1, Windy would of obtained the Soul Eater (which would disprute balance).
In Suikoden 2 If Luca conquered Dunan that would cause chaos or if Jowy were to become king and defeat Riou, taking his half of the True Rune that would cause chaos.
Suikoden 3 is different because the war was fought by people that understood True Runes and didn't need Leknaat's guidance. I think she didn't appear because she knew that no one could directly alter her "balance" much less destroy it becasue she is a big believer in Fate.
Which leads me to Suikoden 4 and the real answer to the question.

She came once to tell hero4 that he needs to gather the 108 stars of destiny, which is pretty important. and then for Ted but i forget what she said. then when you get all 108 stars she says that the 108 stars have calmed the Rune of Punishment...i don't exactly remember.
i still think that this is the first time in recorded history that a war has been under the banner of the 108 stars. She is new to guiding the hero. So i think that becasue she is unexperienced in "keeping balance" that she only appears 3 times with little information.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

her Back Gate Rune which allows her to summon monsters


I thought the Back Gate Rune deals with dismissing summoned monsters. The front Gate Rune summons them. We see this at the end of S1.

Quote:

she is a big believer in Fate


I think she believes in the coincept of fate and how fate can be strong against the average person, but hey, just gather 107 friends and fate has no power at all. It's really a lackluster force if you ask me. S3 touched on the power of fate with Luc's story, but otherwise it's just this big looming concept that everyone talks about but never really has to suffer under.

And also, balance does not equal order. Balance is neutrality. Some order and some chaods are both needed to achieve balance.

Leknaat, to me, is becoming just one giant cliche. It's a pity because she has so much potential as a character, but she just gets used over and over again in exactly the same way. The writers really need to have her appear to the hero in some other way than just appearing in his bedroom in the middle of the night in a glowing ball. It's getting old. When she did it to Tir and Riou, theuy had each met her before so they knew who she was and basically knew what she was there for. Konami basically hears a noise, wakes up and a woman is standing in his room all magic-like. If I were him, I would have attacked her ... or at least called for help.

Every time she appears her story is some variation of "Don't give up," "Runes give power but also make you suffer" or "Yay, the 108 stars have gathered and here's your reward."

I think Leknaat is a great character, but she needs to be more than just a cosmic cheerleader.
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Urn

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

I thought the Back Gate Rune deals with dismissing summoned monsters. The front Gate Rune summons them. We see this at the end of S1.


The Front and Back portions of the Gate Rune both possess identical powers. There is no variation aside from the difference in magical powers between Windy and Leknaat.

I don't know if her role is miniscule eventhough her actions are rather limited. I think that when she interferes it is very influential to the development of the Hereos (when she does get involved). One may see her actions as small, but it seems like she always does just enough to manipulate the heroes towards a certain path. That's quite important in my view.

As for her age at Suikoden 4, 230 years may seem like a long time but think about the fact that Balance is not a time-based concept. There are infinite possibilities that she must consider. I don't think that 230 years was enough time for her to fully understand the path she must take and the proper way to guide those heroes in order to achieve the necessary Balance.

Of course she had to have been busy, but she came off as being rather reluctant in Suikoden 4. That showed me that she was still uncomfortable in her role. I just believe that she did not properly know the proper course of the Balance at that time, but knew the relative importance of the Tenkai Star, the Rune of Punishment, and the effect the 108 Stars of Destiny had on Fate. I think she was still coming into her own and gradually gets more comfortable intervening later on in the series and also gets more comfortable not intervening.

But, again, I think her interests lie in manipulating Tenkai Stars who are True Rune bearers. In Suikoden 3, the Tenkai Star was not destined to bear a True Rune, therefore she did not intervene because their was no suitable leader to effect Balance, but in the other games we see that considerable power is in the hands of the fated leader of the people's will. She must act in order to make sure they all flow towards the Balance she has envisioned.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I didn't finish Suikoden 4... It's not like I didn't want to, I just can't...

Anyway, do you suppose one day, in like Suikoden 8: Revenge of Jowy Blight's grandson, Leknaat herself might end up playable.

Yeah, I know this is a little off topic but I was thinking about this back when Suikoden 3 was coming out.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden III Leknaat was not able to interfere. The True Wind Rune was stronger then her mere half rune.

Suikoden IV i have to say maybe she didn't realize what she was suppose to help yet until maybe a few years. You never know when she truly became the excuter of balance. which bring me to another question. Would Windy be with Leknaat or be some other form to help with the balance of runes.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

She did say a few things of some importance, If it wasn't for her Ted would have never left the ghost ship (Neither would your party...) She did give that speech about them not needing to worry about the world's fate as it was long in the future. That could allude to her knowing already the fate in store for the world. Also she liked watching the hero while he was asleep... I wonder if that was the first time she guided a hero? It's not like she needs any practice, what with her half rune and whatever teachings she learned from her village.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wonder what all his guards would be thinking if they found out and maybe a few of his admirerers
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Zaj

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Urn wrote:
Quote:

I thought the Back Gate Rune deals with dismissing summoned monsters. The front Gate Rune summons them. We see this at the end of S1.


The Front and Back portions of the Gate Rune both possess identical powers. There is no variation aside from the difference in magical powers between Windy and Leknaat..
Just to clear this one up: her True Rune was forcibly split (coffee and whatnot) and she was able to summon Gremio back

Coketastic wrote:
I didn't finish Suikoden 4... It's not like I didn't want to, I just can't...

Anyway, do you suppose one day, in like Suikoden 8: Revenge of Jowy Blight's grandson, Leknaat herself might end up playable.

Yeah, I know this is a little off topic but I was thinking about this back when Suikoden 3 was coming out.
You just can't? That's wierd. Missing the game or the console, then?

Well, I don't know if it's thanks to the graphics, but Leknaat didn't seem as physical of before, like she was just a projection, instead of really being there (maybe that's why she only appeared before the True Rune bearers?) (actually, scratch that, Lino was able to see her too) and not the whole army like in the first two (in which she wasn't as transparent and glowy as well).
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Last edited by Zaj on Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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