Where are the Final Fantasy Tactics of yesteryear?

[Kalidor]

We all do it once in awhile; bring out our old friend Super Nintendo, search through the boxes in the storage room for the Sega Genesis, even excavate the ossified remains of the 8-bit Nintendo. Video Game memory lane you could call it. Well, the other day, I was cavorting with my old and dear friend Playstation 1, and Final Fantasy Tactics was our destination.

It must be said. This game is awesome. Seriously. In the wash of modern RPG's, I had forgotten what a truly good RPG is. I was most shocked to discover as I played that this game has a story! It almost blew me away right there. It has a story, and not only a story, but a story that is actually intirguing! The dynamics between Larg, Goltana, and the Church, and the greater plot that is driving it all, and you having only your limited perspective and trying to make sense of it all...it's wonderful. It feels like there is more to discover if you can just get to it, just find that next clue, but that only reveals more. I haven't felt that way in a game for who knows how long, and I miss it.

Is anyone with me on this one? What has happened to modern gaming? Is it just me? As I've grown older, have video games lost what they once held for me? I still love getting together with some friends and having a good FPS session. No, I don't believe it is just me. What then has happened to the games? Has it all become about glamour, and no grit, no substance?

Is there anyone else there that feels this way about modern games? I want to get to the bottom of this, and discover just what makes those Final Fantasy Tactics so good, and where that has gone? And if it isn't Final Fantasy Tactics that does it for you, tell me what game has or does give you that sense of wonder, so that I can see if it does for me too.

[Leb]

It's not very fair to give Final Fantasy Tactics all the credit, seeing as how the game was just a ripoff of the Tactics Ogre formula.

[Gil-galad]

But there's no denying the brilliant story and characters in Final Fantasy Tactis, Leb. ^^

There are so many classic RPGs that have plots that are just so much better than any new RPG I've played. That's not to say they're bad, but none of the stories really hit be, or got me 'emotional'. ^^ It seems to me that developers are worried about doing unconventional things, because of the high production costs they now face. They get worried that if they try something bold all their money will have gone to waste.

Although.... I really have no idea what happened to the stories in games I used to love, I mean, the last game that had a story that blew me away was Xenogears, and that was nearly seven years ago. -_-
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[Admiral Ackbar]

Even if it was a "rip-off" (which I cannot agree with, since FFT and Tactics Ogre simply belong to the same genre) it was a good rip-off.

And I agree that gaming has become all glamur and no substance. Especially RPGs. The current slew of RPGs have sucked so much it isn't funny. XenoSaga 2, Suikoden 4, Star Ocean 3...I was looking forward to all three of these games and every one of them sucked in every possible way.

It's pathetic and sad that old games like Suikoden 1 and 2, Xenogears, Crono Trigger, the old FF games, and other older games are many many times better than the crap thrown at us today. Hell, I hate Crono Cross with a passion...but I'd rather play CC than go through a random current day RPG.

The main reason is graphics. Back in the old days of 2D you could have dozens and dozens of cities in an RPG, and just as many dungeons. We don't have that nowadays because 3D graphics take a hell of a lot longer to make and take up more data in the game (not to mention whether or not they look good). FF7 would never work as a PS2 game if they made it fully 3D...there are simply too many cities and such. It would probably have to span extra CDs.

I'm not satisfied with current Japanese RPGs for the most part. There are some saving graces...like SRPGs. And American RPGs are steadily becoming more popular, despite most of them having piss-poor stories and characters.
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[Sage]

I've been of this way of thinking for quite some time now. Back in the day, when I finished a game, like FFT, I wanted to play again. First, to do all that I think I may have missed (take a different branch, etc) and secondly, to use what I found out in the story to see if I can make connections. Today's RPGs bore me about halfway through. When I manage to finish one I think "Is that it?" or "What happened?" I forget the story, half the characters, and tend not to even think of playing it again. They're ok games, in my opinion, but they're not as great as the past games.

Partially, I think it is due to the 3D graphics as Blue Thunder said. I also believe that trying to be different in order to sell takes presidence over story. Think about it: Back in the day, how many battle systems are there? Now how many are there? How did characters become stronger back in the day? Now? With the advent of skill points, sphere grids, and battle systems like SO3's, we lose what they could have done on story. Creativity goes into the mechanics instead of the game itself.
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[St. Ajora]

To me, it doesn't have much to do with the graphics at all, but in the whole package. This and this has been done before, so let's expand upon it and try to make it better, or at least, different.

I can still play through Lufia 2 and feel damn satisfied. Ahh. Tee hee. Typical, "cliche" storylines, as we would classify them today. Final Fantasy 3, the ultimate revolution. Chrono Trigger, hands down, still my favorite SNES game, and second favorite game of all time. Ogre Battle with its agonizing voiceovers. Super Mario Kart, Breath of Fire 1 and 2. All so simplistic compared to games of today. Hell, and moving onto playstation, Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden 1, and Tales of Destiny.

Damn I need to get my visa so I can start buying all of them from ebay >>

[Dakota]

Im a big fan of FFT, I can play it over & over again. They just should have remade it for the GBA, instead of FFTA.
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Its height.

[Benit149]

I've noticed a change for the worse in RPGs I play. I'm not going to pin all the glory on one game or whatever, but there are good titles out there. Too bad they're not recent games.

Titles of today like Stella Deus, Suikoden IV, and even Guilty Gear Isuka boasted about gameplay and graphics. GGI was the worst, making its selling point a 4-way match with zero story, whereas their predecessors were single-player storylines that get you intrigued even about characters you didn't like. GGXX was the best for this, but Isuka completely failed. I think you already know my opinions on Stella Deus (X-p), and S4 just didn't come to par with me. Maybe Rhapsodia will save it, but only time will tell.

All the developers care about nowadays are the graphics and systems. Storylines basically exist as glue to give reason to these graphics and systems. In older games, the story was god, and function came second, although Star Ocean 2 is that rare time where I love the system more than the story. I've noticed this turnaround as I played new titles, and game developers need to realize why their games are being returned and sitting on shelves for years, or else they're in creative trouble.
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"Luca Blight, patron saint of population decrease." -- Benit, MST149

Benit149: First Lady of Addervon, Princess of Slight Fever, defender of the Nameless.

[Kalidor]

[Earthquake923]

That's cause it's all graphics, graphics, graphics. Plot, who cares, it's not needed. A real driving force to motivate you into liking the characters, that's not needed either. Does the game mechanics make sence, no people like having to press L1, L3, and L7 to just shot a gun. All that is cared about is, does it look good, and will it make us money. It's rare gems that shine through, like Shinning Force, FF Tatics, and Metroid.

As for the question about FF Tatics Advance, it's a whole new game, in a differnet world. It's not bad, but not the original.
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If anybody asks about the avatar, I did it for Jess.

[Thief]

"Final Fantast Tactics of yesteryear"? You mean the game that everyone praise so much but I find decent at best? Eveyone whines about newer games putting not enough emphasis on story, but when a title like Xenogears dump its gameplay into the garbage bin for story, something is very wrong. I'm looking for a game with gameplay, not simply a storybook with walls of text.

Not to mention that most of these "disappointing" titles are mostly follow-up installments. Disappointment are born mostly because these games are not exact copies of its favoured predecessors, and rarely really about the new game itself. Flaws are everywhere, of course (and that include those old favourites too!), but more often they are far too exaggerated. If they are so bad as to deter your enjoyment of the game, the number of newcomers enjoying it seems to be saying otherwise.

My style? Look harder. Hoping for another "Final Fantasy Tactics"-like (or whatever) experience won't come if I continue to look for more of the exact same thing. You will definitely find a new (and, sometimes, an even better) gem if you look carefully beyond the endless waves of sequels and other similar marketing tactics.

Every generation has its share of crappy titles and memorable ones. For every Final Fantasy Tacticsor/Chrono Trigger/Xenogears or whatever floats your boat, there are numerous forgettable titles in its generation. Comparing the least favourites of this generation with your most favourites of yesteryear... we will get nowhere.

[Kalidor]

Thief, you bring up many interesting points that I will try to address. Before I even begin though, allow me to say thank you for putting the time into a well thought out post. Now, let's begin.

[St. Ajora]

[Kalidor]

You know, I would actually like to see that. I think that it would be interesting to see how the worlds are linked together, even if it is just a hypotheses to the matter. I can see the sort of linear progression between one and two, but I'm not sure how three would fit into it. A smaller detail is that the form of the world is quite different between the three, the shape of the continents and such. I don't have much of an explanation for this, other than that perhaps the momentus powers of the dragons unleashed in the wars they are famous for sundered the lands and changed the face of the world.

Wait a moment, I just remembered a partial link between one and three. The final villain is the same isn't it? The goddess girl with the luminescant wings. What I wasn't able to figure out about that is in the third one she seems much more benign than the first. If you used your ultimate dragon transformation, Agni I think it was called, wouldn't she become some sort of terrible monster?

Anyway, I would like to see this summary, if it provides connections between the three. PM me with a link, if it's online, or let me know how to get it. I could give you my email address or something.

[St. Ajora]

Yeah Myria was the god in both BoF's, and yeah, she was a lot more active in 3 (and her history with Bleu and the Brood is a lot more fleshed out and gives meaning to her indirect action in 1). Anyway, I'll email you to avoid totally ignoring every other discussion topic in this thread.

edit: You have no email listed. THe content is too long for PM's I'm assuming, so I think that I'll make the summary into a thread, here, in case there are other Breath of Fire fans interested in the storyline.