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Arenegeth
Joined: 23 May 2005
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Location: Ceresfjellet
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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We are talking about what love comes from. Love is love. You can say you love Suikoden, but what does that mean? It's all the same. You have an immense affection for it and you value it as a part of your life. That's no different from the love you have with a family member. You can put all sorts of cute titles on it, but it's all the same.
Again, sex is a physical act that anyone can do. Love has nothing to do with it. People have sex with dogs, trees, pies, and any number of things you can think of. Sex has no relation to who we love at all and surely has no defining factor when discussing it.
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Let me present a case to you, a couple of years back I think a guy in Colombia was in love with a blow-up doll, why do you suppose that is?
Because she was cute or because he liked her plastic "mind", so he was so in love with that doll but his parents seeing their son been in love (thus relating to both sex and my main point of love been nothing more than a thought based on factors) with a fake doll they tried to take the doll away from him apparently they put a hole on the doll while doing so and "killed" the doll, that cause the remaining "lover" to go on a crime of passion and kill both his mother and his father and I think he later killed himself.
Do you see now what sex has to do with it?
Is not so much sex it self but what you gain from it that counts don't look at the physical act it self look at what it brings.
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Those are just titles trying to classify a feeling. It has nothing to do with defining love. You can issue titles to anything and try to explain it, but it still has little relevance. Love is love. I already explained this in my first response. And sex has nothing to do with romance. Romance is particular way of behaving based on emotions. Sex is a physical action in order to procreate. Now making love is a different story. That has nothing to do with soul or 'dreamy' anything.
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Wait clarify something here, "making love" is different than sex for you?
In that case that is what I'm talking about, that "making love" part is sex but if you choose to look at them different go ahead.
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Rape is forceful entry. That is involving an unwilling partner in which one person only has the goal of sex. This is not relevant to the discussion. Prostitutes willingly give their bodies for money due to mental choices. They want money and sell their bodies to get it. Sounds like a mental choice to me. And yes, everyone can have 'sex'. Sex is a physical act be it forced or wanted. Therefore anyone can do it.
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Not anyone can do it, and rape is not only done for sex it could be done for humiliation or revenge or for the need to pass one's seed, prostitutes sell their bodies to make money they do not sell their minds they are doing that unwillingly do you really think that prostitutes enjoy been that?
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Then why keep brining it up when I said I was through discussing this??
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As long as you quote and say an opposite to what I'm saying I will say the same and the cycle goes on, I defend my opinion since you continue to deny some things even commonly known facts.
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How do you presume to know what they feel when they themselves say they don't know why? And who said they even had foster parents? One has a father and one has a mother and one is missing the father and one is missing the mother. There is no attachment to the parent they have never met.
It's taboo to speak about them, remember? They only know they had a biological parent but no one speaks of them. They are perfectly find with the one parent that raised them. You shouldn't presume to know what they are feeling. I've known them all my life and I'd think I know them a little better than you. Plus, they say they have no reason to love them, but they just do, and I'll take their word for it.
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I take their word for it too, is what the mind is saying and nothing else and that is what counts.
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I didn't say what I thought about that subject. I said they love these biological parents they have never met for no reason at all. It had nothing to do with soul-mates and it certainly is not logical. So, you are assuming it is there for their emotional needs, when they clearly say they love them for no reason at all and are perfectly satisfied with the life they have now? Umm, yeah, I'm just going to take their word for it as they should know better than any of us. And yes, as long as it is real to them that's all that matters.
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Exactly an illusion that is all that matters I agree.
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The brain is the organ from which emotions derive. If you are relating emotions to the mind, then you would have to be talking about the brain from which those very emotions come from. So, if the emotions are of an illogical mind, then the brain must be illogical, as well since it is the source of those illogical emotions of the mind which you try to separate from the brain. So, if the brain is logical then there can be no illogical emotions and hence no illogical mind.
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Now this is what I mean by assume, no that is not right the brain is different than the psyche the brain is a piece of meat while the psyche is a thing that rests inside it that makes you say all the things you're saying now.
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I don't assume anything. I believe there was a question mark there. So, we define existence by existence? I believe there is a rule that no one thing can be defined unto itself. And we are calling logic a "wave"? Again, I make no assumptions about logic never existing. I have not even brought that topic into this discussion, but logic is born out of humanity. Humans create logic as a method to describe what is known.
So, if you had not learned that things are solid, then how would you know if you bumped into a solid object? There would be no possibility for that because solid is not known to you.
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But it is, such fundamentals animas are born with, do you think that animal parents teach their children many things besides hunting?
But let us not continue about logic in a subject that is about love.
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What are you talking about? Who assumed anything?
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I didn't mean what I said sarcastic but literally so yes...
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asked three questions. Count them and nothing had to do with me assuming anything. Do you need a definition for what an assumption is? Now, that statement you made about kittens was an assumption. You assume what that kitten displayed was love.
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What it was then (ha you say that I think I know everything)?
Sexual interest the kitten found me too hot to bear or was it the need of affection and protection, thus love, remember I didn't feed them since they were still sucking milk (well depending on situation).
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People can believe they are in love, but it doesn't mean they are. Marrying someone is not a justification for love. There are plenty other reasons for marrying a person. The statements you made just show that love has nothing to do with the heart or the mind. And that's all that I'm saying.
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Everything has to do with the mind (that we do that is), and so does love, but you see the need for survival or pleasure can cause love.
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Coming from you that statement about me has about as little value to me than a penny with a hole in it, but we are all entitled to our opinions. And I could care less what it is that love comes from or whether it exist for me or for you, as long as it is beyond the heart and the mind. It seems like you are missing that point. Whatever you say otherwise has no value to me.
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This comes from someone who is open to all opinions and questions everything while he doesn't question his own friends feeling and of course neither his mind and simply goes with it because he likes it to be right while he has no basis for it but his on desire?
Well then I don't care either.
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Thinking that love is deeper is based on personal experience, not conviction. Be sure to distinguish the two. I already said more than once I could care less if there was a soul. I do believe in one, but I already said that was irrelevant to my stance on this topic.
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How can it be irrelevant since if soul exits so do ghosts, monsters and vampires since they are all based on fantasy and fiction and the need for the human mind to crate things that don't exist?
So if there's soul then what pragmatically based thing I or anyone else says will do?
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And if you are talking proof, then prove me wrong. Apparently I could care less about your stance or anyone else's stance on the topic. Your opinions on the matter are irrelevant as are mine without proof. You cannot prove me wrong and bringing in what other people feel just makes it worst because I could really care less about feelings or opinions. Give me facts that say that love is based on the heart or the brain. I already said they deal with neither. I will keep this opinion unril proven wrong. Until then my position on the subject stands.
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Are you even considering that heart has anything to do with love?
A muscle that pumps blood that is absurd.
I can prove a lot more than what you are saying since love is affection do you want me to try an experiment on any passerby's or something, and have them closed in a dungeon for years to see if they will evolve feeling of love?
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"Just remember what love really is and that love is not alone." What does that mean? I've been asking for 3 posts for what love is and no one has been able to tell me. So, someone tell me what love 'really' is. And this not being alone, what are you talking about? Please clarify. You can attribute many qualities to love, but nothing defines love. So, someone please tell me, what is love. It seems to be very alone to me. People have tried to describe it, failing miserably. All you all give is qualities attributed with love. Nothing defines it.
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I have already said what I meant with that on my last post referring to Zero so look at that, but let me say that I know and say what love is you just don't choose to accept it is that simple and you will never will, you don't want to.
Also aren't you going with the majority now eh?
Since most people seem to think the way I think in essence on this topic, oh my god what has happened to me I'm the norm!
In any case this is pointless there is nothing that I can say that will change you're mind if you need "proof" is in front of you just have to see it.
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Urn
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Let me present a case to you, a couple of years back I think a guy in Colombia was in love with a blow-up doll, why do you suppose that is?
Because she was cute or because he liked her plastic "mind", so he was so in love with that doll but his parents seeing their son been in love (thus relating to both sex and my main point of love been nothing more than a thought based on factors) with a fake doll they tried to take the doll away from him apparently they put a hole on the doll while doing so and "killed" the doll, that cause the remaining "lover" to go on a crime of passion and kill both his mother and his father and I think he later killed himself.
Do you see now what sex has to do with it?
Is not so much sex it self but what you gain from it that counts don't look at the physical act it self look at what it brings.
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Who cares if it is a blow-up doll or not? I really don't care what a person is in love with. If the guy is convinced it's love then good for him. Of course, in his mind he was in love with the doll or he would not have said he loved the doll in the first place. This still doesn't define what love is or tell where it came from. This is an attempt to justify the reason why he loves the doll.
It doesn't tell where his love came from at all. Sure, the mind probably played apart in it, but that may not be a definite factor. There may be many reasons, which I'm positive there was, that he claimed to love the doll. Sex has nothing to do with it.
The fact that he was having sex with the doll is irrelevant. If that was the case we would say we loved every girl we had sex with..and I know that is not the case for me and many others. So, sex is irrelevant. It may play a small part, but it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If I look at what sex brings then I would say it brings procreation. No emotions really need to be involved. I give no deep meaning to sex. Sex is just an act. There is nothing special about it and it only serves one purpose.
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Wait clarify something here, "making love" is different than sex for you?
In that case that is what I'm talking about, that "making love" part is sex but if you choose to look at them different go ahead.
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'Making love' is a deeper sexual interaction between two people who are in love. It isn't even about sex. It's about uplifting one another and sharing within each of the two individuals. It's the process of building love. It's so much more deeper than just getting in there and doing the deed. So, I don't equate it to sex because it's more than that.
Sure, sex involves intercourse, but it doesn't have to involve feeling as making love there is a complete joining of the two people involved into one. It's the sharing of two existences. So, I don't think we are talking about the same thing at all. And I will look at it that way, but thanks for your approval.
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Not anyone can do it, and rape is not only done for sex it could be done for humiliation or revenge or for the need to pass one's seed, prostitutes sell their bodies to make money they do not sell their minds they are doing that unwillingly do you really think that prostitutes enjoy been that?
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The reasons are irrelevant. Sex is sex. I don't care about the reasons for why people have sex at all. And whether they enjoy it or not is irrelevant, as well. We are talking about sex. Sex is a physical act which does not need to be enjoyed. Women and men have been documented as not enjoying it and still have sex regularly. The reasons you are giving for why not anyone can have sex are completely irrelevant.
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As long as you quote and say an opposite to what I'm saying I will say the same and the cycle goes on, I defend my opinion since you continue to deny some things even commonly known facts.
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I already said I'm through talking about the soul. You keep bringing it up. And please tell me what is 'commonly' known as fact.
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I take their word for it too, is what the mind is saying and nothing else and that is what counts.
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So, you know better than them what their minds are telling them? Is that what you're trying to say?
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Exactly an illusion that is all that matters I agree.
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Where in that whole entire statement did you get anything about an illusion? They have there own reasons for loving those parents they never met. Period. You can claim it to be an illusion, but the fact is you don't know and I don't know either. So, until you get a doctorate in love and psychology, I'd think it would be safe to say that you don't if it is an illusion or not. But, that's just me.
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Now this is what I mean by assume, no that is not right the brain is different than the psyche the brain is a piece of meat while the psyche is a thing that rests inside it that makes you say all the things you're saying now.
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I assumed nothing. You made a statement and I replied to it. You obviously are confused as to what an assumption is. Ah, so you're the expert in what the pysche is and is not? Ah, the psyche is an invincible entity or a voice that resides in me that makes me say all the things I say? Sounds oddly like a spirit to me, but I don't want to 'assume' anything again. So, I'll ask you a few questions instead. Does tyhe psyche deal with thought? Is the brain the organ that facilitates those thoughts?
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But it is, such fundamentals animas are born with, do you think that animal parents teach their children many things besides hunting?
But let us not continue about logic in a subject that is about love.
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Sure, they teach them all sorts of things about survival..well, not snake parents, but generally yes they do. What does survival have to do with love? Ah, now you want to quit talking about logic and love? But, we were making such progress. ;-)
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What it was then (ha you say that I think I know everything)?
Sexual interest the kitten found me too hot to bear or was it the need of affection and protection, thus love, remember I didn't feed them since they were still sucking milk (well depending on situation).
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You don't want to know what I think. ;-) And why should I respond to your question? You said I assumed something and provided no evidence to support your claim. You give me an accurate example of where I gave an assumption first and then I may be obliged to acquiesce to your request.
Too hot to bear? I don't even know what you mean with that statement, but the only reason it took to you was because you provided it a service which enabled it to survive. You kept it warm. That ensured its survival and had nothing to do with love. Our egos make us believe the dog or cat loves us, but clearly they do what is needed for their own survival.
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Everything has to do with the mind (that we do that is), and so does love, but you see the need for survival or pleasure can cause love.
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You are just giving a justification for reasons why people may or may not be in love and that is looking at things in retrospect. Meaning these are justifications for not loving or loving someone after the fact that the decision to love or not love has already been made. This does not help to establish where loves comes from. You even say 'can' cause. There is no certainty as to what causes love and that is the point of my argument.
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This comes from someone who is open to all opinions and questions everything while he doesn't question his own friends feeling and of course neither his mind and simply goes with it because he likes it to be right while he has no basis for it but his on desire?
Well then I don't care either.
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I am very open to all opinions. That doesn't mean that I value them all the same. So, what was your point in that statement? I question all people's feelings equally. Please don't assume anything about me because you don't know me. And obviously everyone wants to be right. And of course I base it on my desires. Everyone does. So, what is your point? What are you trying to say? Or are you just babbling on and on about nothing?
The point is I'll accept that I'm wrong when proven wrong. Simple as that. And it's great that you don't care. Just wonderful. I never asked you to care about my opinions. ;-)
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How can it be irrelevant since if soul exits so do ghosts, monsters and vampires since they are all based on fantasy and fiction and the need for the human mind to crate things that don't exist?
So if there's soul then what pragmatically based thing I or anyone else says will do?
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What do ghosts, monsters and vampires have to do with this topic? See, why I say it is irrelevant? Statements like that prove its irrelevance to this topic. Let us stay to statements relevant to this discussion. Not items of sci-fi and fiction. I already moved from the discussion of the soul. It is irrelevant to this topic.
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Are you even considering that heart has anything to do with love?
A muscle that pumps blood that is absurd.
I can prove a lot more than what you are saying since love is affection do you want me to try an experiment on any passerby's or something, and have them closed in a dungeon for years to see if they will evolve feeling of love?
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Sure, I've considered it. And the heart is the organ that pumps blood to the body. Do you need an anatomy book? You are the one trying to give deeper philosophical meaning to an organ which you have the right to do by all means. But, when you think about it, who's really being absurd here?
Well, you suggested it, so, by all means do so. You say you can give me proof. Well, please do. You can prove it, you really can? Well, do it and then I'll be silenced. Please give me your so-called proof. Otherwise, your argument means relatively nothing and my argument point still stands.
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I have already said what I meant with that on my last post referring to Zero so look at that, but let me say that I know and say what love is you just don't choose to accept it is that simple and you will never will, you don't want to.
Also aren't you going with the majority now eh?
Since most people seem to think the way I think in essence on this topic, oh my god what has happened to me I'm the norm!
In any case this is pointless there is nothing that I can say that will change you're mind if you need "proof" is in front of you just have to see it.
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I don't know if it's even important enough to go back and check now. I don't care what YOU say love is just like YOU don't care what I say love is. That is why proof is necessary. Of course I'm not going to accept what you say just like you aren't going to just accept what I say. Give me some proof. You say you have it, well stop keeping it to yourself. What you have givien me so far are inconsistencies. I will take your stance if you give me proof that forces me to do so. Not even I can argue against the truth. I can argue what is true to you because your 'truth' is irrelevant to me. THE truth is what is relevant.
I never went with the majority. If you recall correctly I said your statement in the religion thread went against the norm and the only reason I said it wasn't the norm was because most people didn't share your same opinion. I never once said I was on the side of the majority. So, no, I'm not going to side with the majority and probably never will unless there is reason for me to do so. As of right now, I don't have those reasons.
What is in front of me is inconsistent and full of holes. That is far form proof. Again, the fact still remains that no one is able to say that love definitively comes from the heart or the mind. Therefore, there is no 'proof' here in this entire thread that would convince me.
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Arenegeth
Joined: 23 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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sex is irrelevant. It may play a small part
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Eh, yes that it what I was saying all along a part one of many...
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Sure, sex involves intercourse, but it doesn't have to involve feeling as making love there is a complete joining of the two people involved into one. It's the sharing of two existences. So, I don't think we are talking about the same thing at all. And I will look at it that way, but thanks for your approval.
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This may be off topic but did you happen to read a lot of fairy tales as a kid?
But whatever man, each to his own.
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The reasons are irrelevant. Sex is sex. I don't care about the reasons for why people have sex at all. And whether they enjoy it or not is irrelevant, as well. We are talking about sex. Sex is a physical act which does not need to be enjoyed. Women and men havd been documented as not enjoying it and still do it. The reasons you are giving for why people can't have sex are completely irrelevant.
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Of course everything is irrelevant as long as it doesn't invade your dream...
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I already said I'm through talking about the soul. You keep bringing up the cycle as you call it. And please tell me what is 'commonly' known as fact.
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A commonly known fact then:
Love has to do with the mind and with convictions says who?
Says Johnny the kid who loved his dog, say Jena the girl who loved her only parent, says George who loved his Grandpa that used to read him all those fairytales, go out on the street right now and ask people of love, ask them now go what are you waiting for?
What they say doesn't matter nothing does.
Because you are "in love" too...
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But, that's just me
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In this case it seems so; odd is usually the other way around...
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So, you know better than them what their minds are telling them?
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I know that people are weak, I know that people are the same everywhere I go, they have the same fears the same need, I compare to similarities, and does that mean I know?
It doesn't, however is a good assumption of what to expect, and besides I never said I know for sure anything.
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Sounds oddly like a spirit to me,
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Of course it does, whatever you say...
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Does tyhe psyche deal with thought? Is the brain the organ that facilitates those thoughts?
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The technical aspect of it yes eh, think of it as software and hardware and you get the best comparison.
Software is the psyche and Hardware is the Brain.
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Ah, now you want to quit talking about logic and love? But, we were making such progress.
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We are not supposed to make progress it is currently impossible so let's stick at least on topic more.
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Sure, they teach them all sorts of things about survival..well, not snake parents, but generally yes they do.
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Just for fun I will return your own statements and you are the expert to know?
Have you had close repeated contact with animals?
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No, you don't want to know what I think. And that would be irrelevant anyway. Why should I respnd to your question? You said I assumed something and provided no evidence to support your claim. You give an accurate example of where I gave an assumption first and then I may be obliged to acquiesce to your request.
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Your assumptions are basically this:
I say something and you ASSUME the meaning of it, if in doubt ask and not make your own meaning of what I say (if done once OK you have done it repeatedly).
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Our egos make us believe the dog or cat loves us, but clearly they do what is needed for their own survival.
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My expert friend, here is where you are wrong, knowing my cats at least they certainly don't need me for their survival they can very easily depend on themselves if outside, so why do they come and sit on me to pet them even if I hadn't fed them for a while since they got food from elsewhere outside?
The too hot to bear comment was needless to say put on sarcastic but you ASSUMED I was serious.
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Why should I respnd to your question?
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Just don't say anything if I don't answer any of yours then.
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You are just giving a justification for reasons wh people may or may not be in love and that is looking at things in retrospect. Meaning these are justifications for not loving or loving someone after the fact that the decision to love or not love has already been made.
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From the subconscious we just realize it later is still there.
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Obviously everyone wants to be right.
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Wrong I don't want to BE right I want to FIND right, if you came here and said this and that because of that and this then I made have changed my mind, all you are saying is, "is that way because I want it to be".
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And of course I base it on my desires. Everyone does. So, what is your point?
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The point is that I don't, as I said earlier I agree with the your "dream" is warm and fuzzy but is fake why not enjoy it and yet keep my self on reality and not desire, because if I followed desire, then I'm with you buddy.
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I never asked you to care
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I don't care about people who don't care that is why.
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It is irrelevant to this topic.
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OOO-K whatever you say...
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Well, you suggested it, so, by all means do so. You say you can give me proof. Well, please do. You can prove it, you really can? Well, do it and then I'll be silenced.
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I already have and so have many others, but you choose your fuzzy dream over reality.
Is that wrong?
Well if everybody thought like that yet, but why not keep on living in something deeper while spoil the image so we're fine then.
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I don't know if it's even important enough to go back and check now.
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It is not a hundred miles it is one page and two posts not the circle of the earth, but OK whatever.
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I can argue what is true to you because your 'truth' is irrelevant to me. THE truth is what is relevant.
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I can't give you more proof through a forum through words I have to show you to make you see what love is but "I" don't need to do that just go outside leave the restrains that a computer leaves to you and start asking people, just ask they will tell you what love is when you start to notice similarities you will understand I already gave you all the "proof" I can, you choose to ignore it then stop listening to me and go out test it on "real people" instead of an old weary AI (that is a joke by the way).
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What is in front of me is inconsistent and full of holes. That is far form proof. Again, the fact still remains that no one is able to say that love definitively comes from the heart or the mind. Therefore, there is no 'proof' here in this entire thread that would convince me.
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OK then and as I said elsewhere leave the thread, nothing here can convince you nothing I or anyone says, considering that you want to be convinced the go outside as I said before jut go and talk to people observe their behavior, the best place to do that is on Campus, but you could also start with relatives to help you find that proof you see people are not as different as you think, they are a combination, in certain things they are identical go ask for experiences of love is a lot different in real life than behind a computer screen, try to find that proof if you need to.
I'm sure after your entertaining quotes I will be here yet again arguing with you, but I know that whatever I say won't change your mind, I hope that you really mean what you say about wanting to change your mind and that it isn't part of your "dream".
So live and let live.
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Zero
Blood Knights
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait clarify something here, "making love" is different than sex for you? |
Just to throw this out there, making love is technically different from having sex. Having sex is when you're going all out, pinning the chick up against a wall and banging her raw, you know? Where as making love is supposed to be a more caring affectionate form of the same thing. It's when the whole show me that you care by being gentle thing comes into play. If you truely love the person you're with, both are equally gratifying, however if you don't...well, you might be just a bit dissappointed.
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The brain is the organ from which emotions derive. If you are relating emotions to the mind, then you would have to be talking about the brain from which those very emotions come from. So, if the emotions are of an illogical mind, then the brain must be illogical, as well since it is the source of those illogical emotions of the mind which you try to separate from the brain. So, if the brain is logical then there can be no illogical emotions and hence no illogical mind. |
I'm going to use perhaps one of the lamest movie quotes ever, but, "Love makes you do crazy things." Granted the word MAKE is a bit too strong to apply to this discusssion, but you must realize that people do things that they normally wouldn't when enduced to certaint thnigs. To say they're illogical simply because someone may be 'lovestruck' would be a bit of a stretch, because your everyday person does at least one thing contenually that may seem illogical to others, irreguardless of how 'perfect' or 'unique' you are.
I think what you're problem is, is that you're trying to take a large topic and condence it far beyond what would still be percieved as acceptable.
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Who cares if it is a blow-up doll or not? I really don't care what a person is in love with. If the guy is convinced it's love then good for him. Of course, in his mind he was in love with the doll or he would not have said he loved the doll in the first place. This still doesn't define what love is or tell where it came from. This is an attempt to justify the reason why he loves the doll. |
This statement bothers me slightly, but not on an argumentative level to be sure. Let me break it down for you:
Love=Emotion
Emotion= Your brains reaction to specific harmones or endorphens translated through action.
Thus, if you really wanted to take your arguement the distance you would have to say that there is really no such thing as hate or fear, or a plethora of other emotions. This all cohere's simply because every 'feeling' we have exists through the same means. Thus, if love had never been 'defined' then it would be hard to understand what feeling it is you feel when around something that you feel great affection for and a need to be around. I cold care less if it's a doll, though if someone fell in love with an object like that, chances are they have some sort of psychological issues.
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I don't know if it's even important enough to go back and check now. I don't care what YOU say love is just like YOU don't care what I say love is. That is why proof is necessary. Of course I'm not going to accept what you say just like you aren't going to just accept what I say. Give me some proof. You say you have it, well stop keeping it to yourself. What you have givien me so far are inconsistencies. I will take your stance if you give me proof that forces me to do so. Not even I can argue against the truth. I can argue what is true to you because your 'truth' is irrelevant to me. THE truth is what is relevant.
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Sounds like a cop out to me, because most people are perfectly able to follow the flow of an arguement and figure out what someone 'really' means (because a lot of people have trouble saying it in a forum, it's that thinking thing that gets them). Obviously there's not going to be any concrete proof, because love is just a feeling that we feel that has been given a definition by scientists who tried to see what exactly triggers the feeling. To ask for a definate answer is perposterious, because quite frankly there isn't one, hence why this argument will never end. The only thing more obserd then attempting to drag this arguement on any further is your lack of admittance that someone CAN feel love for the reasons being described. It's that type of short sidedness that makes it hard to argue any valid point, people don't want to see what's right in front of their faces if it isn't what they want to know. Hence this will be my last post on this topic, I'm not going to contenue tarding this thread up.
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Having sex is when you're going all out, pinning the chick up against a wall and ****** her raw
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:shock:
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It's when the whole show me that you care by being gentle thing comes into play
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I'm with the second part, always...
I don't ***** chicks raw.............
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Zero
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Then you've got no idea what you're missing, champ.
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Urn
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Eh, yes that it what I was saying all along a part one of many...
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It's still irrelevant to what love is. It is just a justification to try to explain why someone believes they are in love. It is irrelevant in defnining love or in explaining where it comes from.
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This may be off topic but did you happen to read a lot of fairy tales as a kid?
But whatever man, each to his own.
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Exactly, what I read as a kid is irrelevant and none of your business in the slightest. But, yeah, maybe I'll stick to the 'friction'. Anyway, please stay on topic. And yes, to each their own.
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Of course everything is irrelevant as long as it doesn't invade your dream...
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What are you talking about? Nothing in that statement dealt with a dream. If you can't reply with a statement prevalent to the quote you are using then don't do it at all. Sex is irrelevant. Nowhere in that whole statement did I mention everything or a dream. If you had nothing to say about sex then you should've left the quote alone.
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A commonly known fact then:
Love has to do with the mind and with convictions says who?
Says Johnny the kid who loved his dog, say Jena the girl who loved her only parent, says George who loved his Grandpa that used to read him all those fairytales, go out on the street right now and ask people of love, ask them now go what are you waiting for?
What they say doesn't matter nothing does.
Because you are "in love" too...
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And this fact is commonly known? Who cares what Johnny, Sena and George think? Their opinions only share any simblance of importance to theirselves. There's no fact there. It's Johnny saying he loves his dog and giving reasons to justify it. Johnny's 'facts' are nothing but his own opinions for how he may or may not feel.
What he says is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because his 'fact' can be different than anyone else's making it only poignant for himself. If you think that is a fact, then more power to you and Johnny. And I just asked 30 people at my job what love was and the results came back inconclusive. I do my research. So, what are you waiting for? Oh, it must be Johnny, Jenny and George.
You didn't really think something as juvenile as Johnny, Sena and George would fly as factual evidence in support of your statements did you? You say love come from convictions and the mind and give 3 examples, shaky examples at that, to support it. Their 'facts' are nothing but meager attempts to justify their love. Does not define what love is at all and sure doesn't say it comes from convictions. And whether I'm 'in love' or not is irrelevant.
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In this case it seems so; odd is usually the other way around...
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Why state the obvious?
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I know that people are weak, I know that people are the same everywhere I go, they have the same fears the same need, I compare to similarities, and does that mean I know?
It doesn't, however is a good assumption of what to expect, and besides I never said I know for sure anything.
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Yes, people are weak, but there are different degrees of weakness. You cannot tell what is going through their minds at any given situation. eriod. So, you trying to justify your remarks is going to fall flat. You say you don't know. So, just leave it at that. Your assumption means nothing. And it's good that you never said you knew for sure because you don't. You just don't know. I don't know, so I'll take their words for it and leave it at that.
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The technical aspect of it yes eh, think of it as software and hardware and you get the best comparison.
Software is the psyche and Hardware is the Brain.
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Can you go out and buy a psyche? Scratch that question. You already said th pysche is inherent from a voice or something. Even though it is psychological fact that events in your life effect the development in a person's psyche, but anyway. But, let's stay on this software and hardware subject. Anyone in the technical field must know that software is useless without the proper hardware to make use of it.
So, the brain is necessary for the psyche to even properly function. It irrelevant to try to separate one from another as their would be no proof of a psyche without the brain to process it. We are humans, we have brains, if the psyche is outside of the brain as you say it is, then you seem to be suggesting that humans could go on living without a psyche. As far as I've read in anatomy, the brain is needed for our survival. If the psyche is separate then it is not essential.
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Of course it does, whatever you say...
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I thought you would care to elaborate. You say that ghosts, vampires, and other ghoulies can't exist but you seem to justify an invincible voice in our head. Sounds contradictory to me. Yeah, so it is whatever I say.
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Just for fun I will return your own statements and you are the expert to know?
Have you had close repeated contact with animals?
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Thanks for asking. Yes I do have repeated close contact with animals on a day to day basis. Either with my two pets or in a vet where I volunteer at present. As an undergraduate I studied animal behavior and conducted research in the lab of the University I attended for over 3 years, as well. So, I'd say yes.
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Your assumptions are basically this:
I say something and you ASSUME the meaning of it, if in doubt ask and not make your own meaning of what I say (if done once OK you have done it repeatedly).
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That is not an assumption that is a reply to your answers. If you consider my answers an assumption that is through your own faults. You have plenty of opportunities to correct yourself. I assume nothing. I can reply to your answers as I see fit. It is up to you to clarify your stance.
They are REPLIES not assumptions. If I was to make an assumption, I would tell you what your stance was on a subject and then give a reply without trying to ascertain your stance on the subject. That would be an assumption. But, I have not done that at all. I just reply to your answers as needed. Keep it straight and don't confuse yourself trying to make my statements into assumptions.
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My expert friend, here is where you are wrong, knowing my cats at least they certainly don't need me for their survival they can very easily depend on themselves if outside, so why do they come and sit on me to pet them even if I hadn't fed them for a while since they got food from elsewhere outside?
The too hot to bear comment was needless to say put on sarcastic but you ASSUMED I was serious.
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So, you know your cats? You speak to them in their language and they tell you exactly how they feel or what they are thinking at the particular moment, right? No, they don't? Then you don't really know your cats do, you? You might know their behavior trends and that is all you can possibly know about them. Anything else beyond you or myself.
And you think they can survive on the outside. But, they are conditioned into a behavior trend that has become their way of life. That is their means of survival. If they are used to living in your house with you and that is all they have known then of course they are going to stay up under you. That is what they have been conditioned to do. They come to be petted by you becuase that is what they have become used to. It is behavioral habit. It has nothing to do with them having affection for you.
I assumed nothing. If anything I was certain it was ridiculous and out of context, but I wanted to give you a chance to give some relevance to the statement. Obviously I was correct. Please keep your assumptions to yourself. You don't know what I may or may not be thinking.
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Just don't say anything if I don't answer any of yours then.
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And you again give me no relevant reason to answer your question. I gave you a chance to give me a reason to reply to that response and you couldn't. Thus, I won't respond. And again, I could care less if you respond to any of these statements. Either way I get what I want.
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From the subconscious we just realize it later is still there.
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And the invincible voice in our heads that speaks to us tells us that, right? Ok..
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Wrong I don't want to BE right I want to FIND right, if you came here and said this and that because of that and this then I made have changed my mind, all you are saying is, "is that way because I want it to be".
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Very same thing. You are just making a semantical discussion. Wanting to find right is the same thing as wanting to be right. You can't distinguish the two. Why would you even try to find what is right if you didn't want to be right? Both are one in the same.
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The point is that I don't, as I said earlier I agree with the your "dream" is warm and fuzzy but is fake why not enjoy it and yet keep my self on reality and not desire, because if I followed desire, then I'm with you buddy.
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As I said, I don't care if you agree or not. And I really don't care if you are with me or not. That is irrelevant to the topic at hand. The fact is that you don't know anything for certain and yet you try to tell me what is right? And you say you keep yourself in reality and yet you believe in a invincible voice in our heads? Yeah, an invincible voice has everything to do with reality.
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I don't care about people who don't care that is why.
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Good for you. *gives a hand clap* It's not that I don't care at all, it's that I don't care for some opinions and some opinions have no value to me at all. But, if you don't care for people that don't care then why keep responding to my posts? You obviously care about it in some way, shape or form.
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OOO-K whatever you say...
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Good! You are finally getting it. It is whatever I say. ;-)
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I already have and so have many others, but you choose your fuzzy dream over reality.
Is that wrong?
Well if everybody thought like that yet, but why not keep on living in something deeper while spoil the image so we're fine then.
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And your opinions, note the word opinions, are reality? You aren't certain about anything but you claim it to be reality. Let's be real. And I don't recall saying anything was right or wrong. I said we cannot be certain which is obviously true. And as long as you're fine in your 'reality' then there is no problem. I'm not trying to change your opinions at all. You believe what's best for you and I'll believe what's best for me.
To me, none are any better than the other, so I have no problems. You seem to think your 'reality' is better. Good for you and all who think like you. That's just great! But, you still can't support your reasonings and say they are fact. It is based on your individual opinions which are irrelevant to truth. I need facts not opinions to chance my stance on the subject.
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It is not a hundred miles it is one page and two posts not the circle of the earth, but OK whatever.
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Not even just going back one page and two posts would be worth it, when I know what was already said. It would just be the same old thing. There's no point to even go back and look at it.
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I can't give you more proof through a forum through words I have to show you to make you see what love is but "I" don't need to do that just go outside leave the restrains that a computer leaves to you and start asking people, just ask they will tell you what love is when you start to notice similarities you will understand I already gave you all the "proof" I can, you choose to ignore it then stop listening to me and go out test it on "real people" instead of an old weary AI (that is a joke by the way).
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So, you've failed me once again. I just went outside had various conversations today at lunch. The people I talked to mentioned things about characteristics of a person, things they do, and how they make they feel as justifications as to why they love someone and why they love an object. But none were able to tell me whether it was the heart or the mind that contributed to it. Yes, the person made them feel good, but they didn't know if that was love.
I actually talked to a woman who said she had one person that was in better in bed and he made her feel great compared to another guy who she loved. There were no concrete answers. I sent 30 emails to co-workers. Still got the same inconclusive results. So, I'm not above reseach. The results are inconclusive. The heart and the mind are not the causes for love. There is something more involved there.
So, I'm not ignoring you at all. You are giving me 'your' opinions. This hardly qualifies as proof. You already have a firm bias as to what you believe love to be. I want to know what love is and where it comes from, not where you think love is and where you think it comes from. From my research, it has shown that most people do not know where love comes from.
They can give reasons to love someone, but they can't say that it is the heart or the mind. All that I have spoken to about it said it was something deeper. And don't think I have only interviewed religious people. I asked at least 5 atheist the very same question. The results were still inconclusive. Results are inconclusive at best.
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OK then and as I said elsewhere leave the thread, nothing here can convince you nothing I or anyone says, considering that you want to be convinced the go outside as I said before jut go and talk to people observe their behavior, the best place to do that is on Campus, but you could also start with relatives to help you find that proof you see people are not as different as you think, they are a combination, in certain things they are identical go ask for experiences of love is a lot different in real life than behind a computer screen, try to find that proof if you need to.
I'm sure after your entertaining quotes I will be here yet again arguing with you, but I know that whatever I say won't change your mind, I hope that you really mean what you say about wanting to change your mind and that it isn't part of your "dream".
So live and let live.
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And again, I could care less what you think I should do. Just because you are not capable of convincing me does not mean that someone else more qualified can't. I will express my opinions as long as someone responds and as long as I want to do so. So, as long as you keep replying I will keep posting. Your replies to my responses are what keeps me posting. You should see that by now. So, stop replying and I'll stop posting. But, I guess you can't resist getting your potch, huh?
As for asking my family, been there and done that. Results are inconclusive. And I don't think people are that different at all. Where did that even come from anyway? And I'll do what I want to do, but thanks for the suggestions. I've done plenty of research on this subject. Again, the results are inconclusive.
And yes, we will be right here again because you have not convinced me in the slightest to change my opinion. So, I'll hold onto my opinion. You give me something to change my opinion and I will most definitely change my stance, but it seems obvious that you cannot do that. Thus, there is no need for me to change my 'dream' as you foolishly call it. Living and let living has always been my policy.
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I'm going to use perhaps one of the lamest movie quotes ever, but, "Love makes you do crazy things." Granted the word MAKE is a bit too strong to apply to this discusssion, but you must realize that people do things that they normally wouldn't when enduced to certaint thnigs. To say they're illogical simply because someone may be 'lovestruck' would be a bit of a stretch, because your everyday person does at least one thing contenually that may seem illogical to others, irreguardless of how 'perfect' or 'unique' you are.
I think what you're problem is, is that you're trying to take a large topic and condence it far beyond what would still be percieved as acceptable.
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In my defense, I have not tried to do anything. If it has been condenced then you can blame yourselves. I gave my response to the topic, people have replied to that response and I have defended it. Simple as that. And acceptable to who? If it's not acceptable to you that is fine, but who's to say who or what something is acceptable? But, I definitely agree with your first paragraph of this quote.
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This statement bothers me slightly, but not on an argumentative level to be sure. Let me break it down for you:
Love=Emotion
Emotion= Your brains reaction to specific harmones or endorphens translated through action.
Thus, if you really wanted to take your arguement the distance you would have to say that there is really no such thing as hate or fear, or a plethora of other emotions. This all cohere's simply because every 'feeling' we have exists through the same means. Thus, if love had never been 'defined' then it would be hard to understand what feeling it is you feel when around something that you feel great affection for and a need to be around. I cold care less if it's a doll, though if someone fell in love with an object like that, chances are they have some sort of psychological issues.
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Break it down all you want. In your opinion love is equal to emotions. In my opinion it is not. So, whatever you say emotions are related to is irrelevant. Plus, this has already been discussed. Those emotions attributed to brain functions are primal functions meant to ensure survival.
They trigger adrenaline and sexual impulses. Adrenaline raises our alertness towards fight or flight, which is related to panic and fear. The part of our brain that stimulates sexual functions, such as blood flow to the sex organs, are there for reproduction.
We try to explain these primal emotions and make them into complicated forms through various language tools, but in essence they are just those very same primal functions. Yes, I have studied the anatomy, done psych research and all that good stuff. Research brain functions and you will see for yourself.
And I'll take my argument the distance. There is no emotion of hate. There is an emotion of fear based on adrenaline being produced from the adrenal glands which the brain tells to function with they are needed for the necessary fight or flight response. But, hate is a word created based on these complicated forms we give our prmal responses. We used that word to explain a negative anxiety we feel based on the responses from our adrenaline levels. This may cause depression, as well. Love has never been accurately defined, meaning we still do not know where it comes from.
It has been given a 'meaning' through language, but we still cannot understand what it truly is. We can associate fear to the brain, that is certain. We can associate feelings of pain to the brain, but never have I seen love associated to the brain. And if that is associated with our emotions then I'd say that love is not tied to it, but something deeper.
And your statement about the person loving the doll as being a psychological issue just shows we don't know what love is. You say that love is attributed to emotions which is associated to the brain. We cannot be certain that person is not in love. Thus, if the love cannot be refuted then we can say it is independent from that person's psychological condition as the love he felt is most certainly real to him regardless.
Anyone has the capacity to love. The mentally unstable, people with personality disorders, etc. They all can love. So, why would love be associated to the pyschology of an individual or their emotions? You are again giving examples to support my position.
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Sounds like a cop out to me, because most people are perfectly able to follow the flow of an arguement and figure out what someone 'really' means (because a lot of people have trouble saying it in a forum, it's that thinking thing that gets them). Obviously there's not going to be any concrete proof, because love is just a feeling that we feel that has been given a definition by scientists who tried to see what exactly triggers the feeling. To ask for a definate answer is perposterious, because quite frankly there isn't one, hence why this argument will never end. The only thing more obserd then attempting to drag this arguement on any further is your lack of admittance that someone CAN feel love for the reasons being described. It's that type of short sidedness that makes it hard to argue any valid point, people don't want to see what's right in front of their faces if it isn't what they want to know. Hence this will be my last post on this topic, I'm not going to contenue tarding this thread up.
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If you read up to that point then you would already know that I don't care what you think about what I have to say or what it sounds like to you. How can I make it simple for you and anyone who reads this to understand? Hmm, Ive got it. I don't care about your opinion in the sense of it pertaining to facts in this topic. I'm sure it has value somewhere, but not to me.
If you don't have evidence to support your claim then your opinion means less than roach droppings to me. Of course, I accept your opinions and take them for what they are worth, but as you see from my last statement that is not much, but I'm sure they have some value to you therefore I read them. So, if you are not providing support for your theory then comments like "sounds like a cop out to me" has no value to me at all. I hope you all understand that now.
And again, you are supporting my statement by saying there is no concrete evidence. That's all I've been saying since the beginning. I've been told I was wrong, you all give your examples, and then come back to this same point that there is no concrete evidence to support your statements. Then why should I change my opinion at all?
If you have nothing concrete to support what you say, why should I believe it and change my opinions? Thus, I finally said, I could care less about anyone's individual opinion and pointed out that I'm looking for concrete proof which obviously no one can give me.
If my asking for a definite answer is preposterous then don't tell me that the answers I give are wrong based on the fact that you or anyone else cannot even support that statement. I will express my opinion on the subject just like you will. And I never said anything could or could not be anything. Go back and read.
Now, tell me who said they couldn't be love? It surely wasn't me. I never said any of those examples could not be love. You obviously don't read very well for content. That just wouldn't do for the verbal on the SAT. Anyway, I said that it was not love in MY eyes. I never said one way was right or wrong. I just expressed my individual opinion and gave replies in order to defend my stance.
I also said that you and anyone else who has posted here in this thread has not proven me wrong. You have to do a better job of reading for substance. And you call me 'short-sided'? Isn't that supposed to be short-sighted, anyway. Ah, well, let me stop getting on you. The point is that you make a good argument, but there is just as many good arguments against it.
Call them valid if you want, but in the end they amount to nothing if they are not concrete and can be refuted. And what you have to say is irrelevant if it is not concrete, so why I adhere to it. I don't care if it is in my face or not. Get ahold of yourself, don't be so sensitive, calm down and don't let emotions guide you. Nothing is personal.
It's a good idea that you have chosen not to respond anymore, though. It might have been a little too much for you if you continued. And yes, I am prodding you to respond if you were wondering. But, you are not short-sighted and should see right through that, right? ;-)
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Then you've got no idea what you're missing, champ.
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It's good to see you are a man of your word about not responding. ;-)
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Arenegeth
Joined: 23 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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It's still irrelevant to what love is. It is just a justification to try to explain why someone believes they are in love. It is irrelevant in defnining love or in explaining where it comes from.
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It supposedly explains where it comes from by showing that love depends on different types of interactions and forms of need and pleasure that input a certain mind state.
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Exactly, what I read as a kid is irrelevant and none of your business in the slightest. But, yeah, maybe I'll stick to the 'friction'. Anyway, please stay on topic. And yes, to each their own.
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It is my business relating to this argument because if you then tell me that you spend some time in a mental asylum then what are we arguing for?
So if you read a lot of fairy tales was meant sarcastically as well as literally.
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What are you talking about? Nothing in that statement dealt with a dream. If you can't reply with a statement prevalent to the quote you are using then don't do it at all. Sex is irrelevant. Nowhere in that whole statement did I mention everything or a dream. If you had nothing to say about sex then you should've left the quote alone.
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Eh, man are you pretending not to understand what I'm saying on purpose?
Tell me that by dream you really thought I was talking about dreaming as in sleeping.
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And this fact is commonly known? Who cares what Johnny, Sena and George think? Their opinions only share any simblance of importance to theirselves. There's no fact there. It's Johnny saying he loves his dog and giving reasons to justify it. Johnny's 'facts' are nothing but his own opinions for how he may or may not feel.
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You miss my point here there are many Johnnies out there putting all those Johnnies together you get a picture.
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What he says is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because his 'fact' can be different than anyone else's making it only poignant for himself. If you think that is a fact, then more power to you and Johnny. And I just asked 30 people at my job what love was and the results came back inconclusive. I do my research. So, what are you waiting for? Oh, it must be Johnny, Jenny and George.
You didn't really think something as juvenile as Johnny, Sena and George would fly as factual evidence in support of your statements did you? You say love come from convictions and the mind and give 3 examples, shaky examples at that, to support it. Their 'facts' are nothing but meager attempts to justify their love. Does not define what love is at all and sure doesn't say it comes from convictions. And whether I'm 'in love' or not is irrelevant.
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You ask people around you when you ask them don't expect to hear the truth or what the feel that is not why I told you to ask, try to put what they say together you actually "just" asked 30 people in your job what love is?
"Just" 30 people, what you work as water boy on a football team or something and you had that immediacy and quickness to ask 30 people what they think of love?
And by being "in love" of course meant my "purposefully changing what I say" friend I meant your dream your belief your "love".
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Yes, people are weak, but there are different degrees of weakness. You cannot tell what is going through their minds at any given situation.
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Actually according to some psychological studies apparently you can tell when people feel fear or other emotions, not thoughts of course, I saw that on TV some time ago so I guess it wouldn't be too hard to find such info.
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So, you trying to justify your remarks is going to fall flat. You say you don't know. So, just leave it at that. Your assumption means nothing. And it's good that you never said you knew for sure because you don't. You just don't know. I don't know, so I'll take their words for it and leave it at that.
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Which raises a question, would you have taken their words for it if they weren't your friends (thus biased).
And for someone who finds Jena, Johnny and George only three people to make an obvious conclusion you find those to friends very conclusive don't you.
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but you seem to justify an invincible voice in our head
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OK so now there is an invisible voice in our heads I see, hmmm is OK I don't want to get you upset, whatever you want.
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Thanks for asking. Yes I do have repeated close contact with animals on a day to day basis. Either with my two pets or in a vet where I volunteer at present. As an undergraduate I studied animal behavior and conducted research in the lab of the University I attended for over 3 years, as well. So, I'd say yes.
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I currently look around me and have 12 cats and a dog I have handled several cats births over the years since I was 11 (I'm 20+ how much + its a secret), I had over 50 cats over the years that I got to study their behavior and practice a lot close than a frighten kitten in a vet and to animals.
So please don't consider that an expertise because then I'm a master.
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That is not an assumption that is a reply to your answers. If you consider my answers an assumption that is through your own faults. You have plenty of opportunities to correct yourself. I assume nothing. I can reply to your answers as I see fit. It is up to you to clarify your stance.
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Then why other people don't ASSUME and make sense and you don't?
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They are REPLIES not assumptions. If I was to make an assumption, I would tell you what your stance was on a subject and then give a reply without trying to ascertain your stance on the subject. That would be an assumption. But, I have not done that at all. I just reply to your answers as needed. Keep it straight and don't confuse yourself trying to make my statements into assumptions.
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Don't assume and I won't.
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So, you know your cats? You speak to them in their language and they tell you exactly how they feel or what they are thinking at the particular moment, right? No, they don't? Then you don't really know your cats do, you? You might know their behavior trends and that is all you can possibly know about them. Anything else beyond you or myself.
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From repeated behavior you understand how they think and operate and they can rarely be unpredictable, you but too much value to living creatures you think they are a wonder, not they are a biological machines that run like a machine.
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And you think they can survive on the outside. But, they are conditioned into a behavior trend that has become their way of life. That is their means of survival. If they are used to living in your house with you and that is all they have known then of course they are going to stay up under you. That is what they have been conditioned to do. They come to be petted by you becuase that is what they have become used to. It is behavioral habit. It has nothing to do with them having affection for you.
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You see no its not, I had cats that spend a lot of time on the outside and then got rehabilitated sort to speak on the inside I had cats on the inside that currently thrive on the outside animals can feel love, if that is what you are talking about here basically that animals can't feel love, if they can feel fear they can feel love.
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And you again give me no relevant reason to answer your question. I gave you a chance to give me a reason to reply to that response and you couldn't. Thus, I won't respond. And again, I could care less if you respond to any of these statements. Either way I get what I want.
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You gave no chance for anything you bubble on about your "ASSUMPTIONS" and nothing else to answer you can't answer and try to go sly with it well it doesn't work that way but judging from the rest, whatever.
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And the invincible voice in our heads that speaks to us tells us that, right? Ok..
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Eh, whatever you think?
Whatever you want man is ok, don't get upset is the invisible voice it is then.
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Very same thing. You are just making a semantical discussion. Wanting to find right is the same thing as wanting to be right. You can't distinguish the two. Why would you even try to find what is right if you didn't want to be right? Both are one in the same.
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I'm going to say what you are saying now for fun yet again, and how do you know me?
You don't know how I think then how do you know that I think that way?
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As I said, I don't care if you agree or not. And I really don't care if you are with me or not. That is irrelevant to the topic at hand. The fact is that you don't know anything for certain and yet you try to tell me what is right? And you say you keep yourself in reality and yet you believe in a invincible voice in our heads? Yeah, an invincible voice has everything to do with reality.
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Eh, now I believe in the invisible voice in our heads?
Eh, again what ever you want now I believe in the invisible voices right.
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Good for you. *gives a hand clap* It's not that I don't care at all, it's that I don't care for some opinions and some opinions have no value to me at all. But, if you don't care for people that don't care then why keep responding to my posts? You obviously care about it in some way, shape or form.
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Yeah probably the same that you do.
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Good! You are finally getting it. It is whatever I say.
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Yeah man that is exactly what ever you say just calm down what ever you say.
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And your opinions, note the word opinions, are reality? You aren't certain about anything but you claim it to be reality. Let's be real. And I don't recall saying anything was right or wrong. I said we cannot be certain which is obviously true. And as long as you're fine in your 'reality' then there is no problem. I'm not trying to change your opinions at all. You believe what's best for you and I'll believe what's best for me.
To me, none are any better than the other, so I have no problems. You seem to think your 'reality' is better. Good for you and all who think like you. That's just great! But, you still can't support your reasonings and say they are fact. It is based on your individual opinions which are irrelevant to truth. I need facts not opinions to chance my stance on the subject.
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Scientific facts are out there just search around; of course nothing is certain that is true.
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Not even just going back one page and two posts would be worth it, when I know what was already said. It would just be the same old thing. There's no point to even go back and look at it.
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Of course my psychic friend whatever you say.
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So, you've failed me once again. I just went outside had various conversations and nothing about the heart or the mind was mentioned in reference to love. They talk about characteristics of a person, things they do, and how they make they feel as justifications as to why they love someone and why they love an object. But none were able to tell me whether it was the heart or the mind that contributed to it. Yes, the person made them feel good, but they didn't know if that was love.
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Yes people aren't supposed to tell you, you are supposed to study them not listen to them, most humans according to a study that I forgot were I read have below the average intelligence anyway (thus the masses are stupid comment on the other thread), so you can't depend on their weak old stupid self for info you have to read through it come on do it the right way.
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actually talked to a woman who said she had one person that was in better in bed and he made her feel great compared to another guy who she loved. There were no concrete answers. I sent 30 emails to co-workers. Still got the same inconclusive results. So, I'm not above reseach. The results are inconclusive. The heart and the mind are not the causes for love. There is something more involved there.
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Now I see, emails?
Eh, man what part from the get out and ask people didn't you get, but OK you young people are too lazy and behind a screen these days.
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So, I'm not ignoring you at all. You are giving me 'your' opinions. This hardly qualifies as proof. You already have a firm bias as to what you believe love to be. I want to know what love is and where it comes from, not where you think love is and where you think it comes from. From my research, it has shown that most people do not know where love comes from.
They can give reasons to love someone, but they can't say that it is the heart or the mind. All that I have spoken to about it said it was something deeper. And don't think I have only interviewed religious people. I asked at least 5 atheist the very same question. The results were still inconclusive. Results are inconclusive at best.
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With that sort of research of course they are, oh man this is hopeless.
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Just because you are not capable of convincing me does not mean that someone else more qualified can't.
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Is it that I can't convince you or that you don't want to be convinced, and I guess everyone else who passed through this thread is not qualified.
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But, I guess you can't resist getting your potch, huh?
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Not more than you do but at least I try to make sense and not ASSUME on purpose.
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And yes, we will be right here again because you have not convinced me in the slightest to change my opinion. So, I'll hold onto my opinion. You give me something to change my opinion and I will most definitely change my stance, but it seems obvious that you cannot do that. Thus, there is no need for me to change my 'dream' as you foolishly call it. Living and let living has always been my policy.
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I'm not trying to change anyone's mind as I said in your case is impossible.
Now I don't think that I have much else to say just take it easy and relax no need to strain yourself now whatever you say is right I'm wrong everyone is, OK.........
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"I am ye who walks his own path and thus I walk alone" |
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iscalio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Urn, Arenegeth, this is not the first thread you make unbearable to read for the normal person with your boringly long, quote-dominated, unnecessary arguments. Please break this habit. |
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Zero
Blood Knights
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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It wouldn't bother anyone really if you resolved anything you're arguing about. Or if you decided to make a few valid points and then let the issue lie. All you two do is quote the rebuttal to everything you'd posted prior, and then contenue the cycle. Hence why I'm not even going to attempt to get on topic with this post.
Like I said before, this arguement died about two pages ago, just the fact that you're trying to make something out of nothing is assinine and mindwrecking. I'm all about reading intelligent arguement on any forum, but there's a point when it goes from being an arguement, to just being the same arguements over and over worded differently. By differently, I mean shorter, and by shorter I mean less entertaining.
In the words of Donald Trump, "You're fired!"
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Arenegeth
Joined: 23 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| iscalio wrote: |
| Urn, Arenegeth, this is not the first thread you make unbearable to read for the normal person with your boringly long, quote-dominated, unnecessary arguments. Please break this habit. |
I have already said all there is to say from my point; it would be hard to resist a return in case Urn comes back in a quoting spree, but I will, since it's pointless anyway.
But people please don't let this thread suffer a fate it doesn't deserve speak your minds make your points it doesn't have to be based on what argument took place before.
That's it from me... Hopefully.........
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kuwaizair
blauuurgggh!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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how cute, a topic about love has turned into a bicker fest. you go at it you cute things, tell 'em as it is, give them the old one two...
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Prince Crisafulli
Fulli Force
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Its definiately true with me that you love with your heart, I loved my ex girlfriend while all others would clearly say it was a bad idea, she's a friend of mine, but due to unfortunate circumstances she was emotionally vulnerable, I genuinely cared about her, but her protective brother and her own insecurities ruined it. The mind would have told me not to love her in the first place under her circumstances, but my heart said yes. It would be seen as crazy to go out with a girl who wasn't comfortable opening up and being passionate, especially due to her reasons for doing so which are so deep I shall respect her privacy, but I didn't think of that, my heart just led me into a relationship. So the idea of friendships becoming love is a bad idea I tend to disagree with, because even now we're good friends and our short relationship didn't change that.
I love the girlfriend I am with now with all my heart, just hearing her voice on the phone brings a smile to my face. We have little sayings together, songs which relate to how we feel about each other, and a true love and perfect friendship that cannot be rivalled by anything the mind could think of, in its purest the heart is superior to the mind. The heart only wants love and compassion, where the mind is where all our thoughts come from, the mind has the ability to make mistakes, while the heart has the ability to forgive mistakes.
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