Death

[Trevoke]

Nearly as far back as we know, humans have had rituals following the death of one of their tribe. Few, very few cultures have not had funerals of some sort.
And our culture (modern human culture, so make abstraction of society, color, language, and so on) is certainly no different.
However, our culture has made life important, important to the point that death is a tragedy. Someone dies and the world stops.

Ever since I went on the highway, went over a bridge and saw a multitude of small cars under me, I wondered what life was like for THEM.
And this is how I pictured life..
Imagine a black canvas; now imagine a white dot. This white dot is your birth, and it is expanding into a white line. That is your life. Now imagine many, many lines.. That's everyone else. And those lines start, stop, cross, recross, sometimes share the same path. That's Life for human beings.

Okay, now, when one of those lines stops, that's it. The line stops. Everyone else continue around. That's how I understand death. And I certainly understand taking a minute to compose yourself, and reminisce, and think about what has happened; but life cannot stop for one death.
At least, that is my understanding and my current state of mind.
What are your opinions?
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There are weapons you cannot hold in your hand.
You can only hold them in your mind.
-- Bene Gesserit Teaching

[Lunarblade]

Wow...that's pretty deep right there. To be honest, death scares me a ton. I'm an agnostic, so my uneasiness with the afterlife (if it exists) makes things that much worse. I don't want to think about the fact that my existance will blink out. Also, it's forcing me to try a lot harder in life, so I can go to my grave with some sort of accomplishment. I absolutely want to at least be remembered for SOMETHING, though I know not what.

If I were rich enough, I'd buy into cryogenic freezing. That's how afraid of death I am.
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[Tonberry]

That is a great example Trevoke. I like how you describe it.

I am in agreement with Lunarblade here. I am afraid of death. I don't know if there is an afterlife, but I believe there is one. I'm afraid of eternity as well. I guess I'm afraid of both dieing permanently and losing my soul and I'm afraid of living forever. Kind of a predicament huh? Well, there's nothing I can do about it and everyone is in the same boat. I'm not alone.

[Filipe]

Being a Christian and believing that when I die I will go to heaven to essentially be with god, I dont really have a fear of death. More like I dread for the pain that my family in whatever dimensions I will have at the time will suffer in my absense. Emotionally the death of a family member is never easy and is never pleasant for those left behind. That is what I dread the most, the pain, and grieving my family and friends will have to live through following it. I fear not death which is an inevitability but rather who and what i shall leave behind.
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[Trevoke]

Filipe, I suppose I can be glad for you that you believe you are living your life righteously enough to go to heaven. Following the very strict rules that Christianity has set cannot be easy.

This being said, my point was, not YOUR death, but indeed the effect of death on family members or anybody else; and you didn't really reply to this. You said it was not easy for anybody: that's what I said, too, in my first post. My question was, "Why?"

Why is it so painful for people to accept that someone is dead?

Please don't mistake this (this goes for everyone) with the question : "Why do you not want to die?" or "What do you want to leave behind?"

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Everyone's Grudge: Afraid of dying and existing forever? Yeah, you should sort that one out. What bothers you about the transience of life?

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Lunarblade: off-topic, but why do you want to be remembered? What makes you want your existence to be remembered? Is it vanity?
_________________
There are weapons you cannot hold in your hand.
You can only hold them in your mind.
-- Bene Gesserit Teaching

[Arenegeth]

Death used to be a release form suffering for me, I wished I died many times in the past, I even thought of trying a few times too (no I never really did).

Now things are better though and I fought so hard to come here I won't let death to stop me now, death has turned into an obstacle for me now, I just wish he doesn't come my way before I accomplish some things, if he does so be it, I get to say I died trying...

As for death for others well...

I don't love anyone, neither do I hate, after the life I went through I'm incapable of those feelings or the right person hasn't come along yet, so I wouldn't worry if a human around me died, but I care of my pets I wouldn't say I love them but they are my responsibility, there aren't humans they depend on me, so I will see that no harm comes to them, if it does I will be sad, maybe even shed a few tears depending, but that will motivate me to move on to better things and try harder for life...

I noticed from my grandmothers death and the words of Luca before he died what death really is, I have certain things to do in this world I don't want to die yet but when I eventually accomplish them I might just give an end to my life my self the way I want to...

As for afterlife, ha, I have seen people live their whole life's believing in that and I don't agree, but people are free to believe at what they want, once we are dead we are nothing but a husk of soon to be rotten flesh, you see that dog run over by a car in the street, that roach you step over last night, well we are the same when we die only difference is size and the attention our remains get from the rest of our species, that is finality I will not believe in some afterlife to make my self feel better for dying, when I die I'm nothing everything is happening here now and I will confront it I will look at the end in the face, that is the natural course of life to live and then to die...
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"I am ye who walks his own path and thus I walk alone"

[Trevoke]

Right, so what did you feel like when your grandmother died?
_________________
There are weapons you cannot hold in your hand.
You can only hold them in your mind.
-- Bene Gesserit Teaching

[Arenegeth]

[Tonberry]

I don't know Trevoke. I am just afraid of eternity. I think that eventually, boredom will consume me and drive me insane. :shock:

Looks like I missed the true meaning of this topic. I don't really have any answers for why it's so hard for people to accept death, but it isn't too hard for me. I have trust that there is an afterlife so I have faith that I'll meet those who I have lost in 80-90 years when I die (if I live that long). I think that the reason MIGHT be that people feel like they've lost someone forever and will never see them again, but you are right. People need to remember those who have died but they can't waste away in grief.

[Urn]

It is generally hard for people to accept finality in the first place. This is probably the most common reason why death is a hard "pill" to swallow. Most people look on towards the future with no care for the present and how life is truly short. I don't think we are supposed to understand death. I won't wrap my brain around the notion of eternity. It's too broad for the scope of a normal human mind. We are supposed to be temporary. That is what makes human beings so beautiful. Life is supposed to be cherished.

The fact that we will be here for a breif moment makes everything we do so much more urgent, so much more appreciated, so much more original. Death is the conclusion. I don't glorify death because it is what it is. I celebrate the living and the fact that the person who passed away lived. Death is the proof of life to me. But, death does make you appreciate what you have I'll admit. It gives you a touch of reality.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Lunarblade]

[Filipe]

Sorry about that Trevoke, I was just talking about death in general and was too tired to come up with an additional answer. As far as said question goes, it comes into the territory of fear. To accept that someone close to you has died is to bring about the fear of your own passing. Also the pain that you feel can at times be great, and you essentially try to put it out of you mind. Acting as if nothing ever happened and the person is somehow still alive. It's sad that while death is a certainty people are so willing in this day, and age to not accept it.

It could be that television has done the opposite to death than it has to violence and sensitized people to death more than they had been. For centuries, sure people would grieve and be sad about the passing of someone close to them but it was also a fact of life. Rarely would people essentially collapse from grief and lose all structure in life. Now if someone close to you dies, "oh my god, they're dead my life is over" is a common mental standpoint people take. It's unfortunate but I suppose you could always blame televisions effect on the image of death and the effect it has on those left behind. Said effects at times being heavily exagerrated. Thats just my opinion though.
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[Sualtam Lugh]

Whenever I think of just ceasing to be...the fear that resides in me grows a tiny bit more. Not being able to fathom what will one day happen to me.......it's an indescribably dark feeling. You know, even with all the religions we have....you know, the idea of heaven is sweet. A place I can and will one day see all my loved ones. That's a little too perfect, sometimes....

[Futch]

I'll go with the good old "live your life to the fullest" advice.

I just have no need to start thinking of what will happen to me when I die, I find it useless because it's the only aspect of our lives that we cannot evade.

Nevertheless, I asume living with the fear of death must be a very... tiring experience, because it doesn't matter how much you think about It it will happen anyway.
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Trevoke]

Urn : there is a movie called "The legend of 1900" which might be interesting. Story of a guy who was found as a baby on a ship and never set foot on land. Amazing piano player. Anyway, towards the end of the movie, he says,
"A piano has 88 keys. If you give me a piano, I can play it. I can make any music in the world. It is finite. And so is life. If you give me a piano with an infinite amount of keys, then no music can be made on it. It's God's piano, and you're sitting on the wrong stool."

Now, whether you or I believe in God is irrelevant, but I think it's a nice way to illustrate what you are saying about the finiteness (is that a proper word? 'finity' maybe ? No.. Doesn't sound right) of life, or how death is a part of life.


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Lunarblade: I was not accusing you, I was wondering what it was that made you want to be remembered. I think it may be important, even though it's off-topic for this thread.

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Futch: Okay, now if you want to be on-topic, answer this: What would happen to you if someone close to you died? Why would you react that way?

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Filipe: I don't know if television has something to do with it, but it might. It's an idea...

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Especially in the US, where I live now, I have noticed this amazing 'culture of life' so to speak. People are fighting tooth and nail for or against abortion, for instance, because (dramatized version) "omg suxx0r life is holy and everyone can live omg suxx0r 1337". But, abortion is not the issue here, death is. So, lives can now be saved, due to advances in medical expertise. I think somewhere along the way, this has been changed into "lives must be saved", and .. Why?
Even if that's not the case, why are people so attached to other people's lives? Attached to someone, sure, but that doesn't have to stop with death..

I want to stress out that I've never had a direct family member die. Closest person I had was my grandfather, and he had Alzheimer's... So, maybe my dialogue will change when someone who is very close to me dies.
_________________
There are weapons you cannot hold in your hand.
You can only hold them in your mind.
-- Bene Gesserit Teaching