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Angelus Silverberg
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 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:56 pm Post subject: The Silverbergs |
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They are probably THE most important family in the Suikoden series. At least 1 or 2 are in every Suikoden so far, not counting IV because we dont know yet. Mathiu, Odessa, Leon, and i guess you can count Apple, were in I. Leon, Apple, and Shu were in II. And Ceasar, Albert, and Apple were in III. They all played parts in these 3 major wars on the continent. And even more than that. Leon was involved in the Sucession wars, Gate Rune wars and Dunan Unification war. You could even say he was indirectly involved in the Second Fire Bringer war because somehow Albert learned how to summon Yuber from Leon. Leon orchestrated the Kalekka Incident to declare war on Jowston, and he brought down the country of Highland from within. His philosophy was to end war with the fewest casualties, and that the soldiers were merely pawns for the strategist. And that the strategist should never put himself in danger. He is proved wrong by Shu near the end of the Dunan Unification war when Shu puts himself in the line of fire and lures Leon into a forest when Victor burns it and destroys Leon's army. There was a chance they both could have died and thus luck saved both of them. One of my favorite parts in the Suikoden series was when Jowy Leon and Shu, both on different sides, worked together to kill Luca Blight. The earliest known Silverberg, Julian Silverberg helped form the Scarlet Moon Empire. Some say his strategy took the Holy City of Rupanda without and bloodshed. Albert Silverberg, Leons grandson, thought of the whole plan to start the Second Fire Bringer war to make True Runes appear. This was successful but in the end he betrayed Luc stating that he liked humanity. His brother Ceasar, younger and more naive, was on the side of the Fire Bringer. After even Harmonia joined the cause of the Fire Bringer he was still with Luc. Albert summoned Yuber, this was a technique taught by his grandfather Leon, who knew it somehow.
Ugh alrite, just wanted to get that out. The Silverberg's are my favorite family/legacy in the Suikodens and much of these games couldn't have happened without them. They played huge parts in the history of Suikoden and i think they will have more to come.
*edit* and i know Shu isnt a Silverberg, i put him and Apple in there because they were both in the Silverberg school of strategy and resembled two parts of Mathiu Silverberg. |
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Albert summoned Yuber, this was a technique taught by his grandfather Leon, who knew it somehow. |
It wasn't really a *technique* I think. It was probably more like "how to contact and get Yuber's service" rather than a technique to summon him as if he were a monster.
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| and i know Shu isnt a Silverberg, i put him and Apple in there because they were both in the Silverberg school of strategy and resembled two parts of Mathiu Silverberg. |
Actually it wasn't the Silverberg school of strategy at all. It was just a normal school, teaching the kids about normal stuff.
But overally, I think I agree that Silverberg family is one of the most influential family in Suikoden world history. But then again, probably there are other families with as long history as the Silverbergs. We'll have to wait and see.
On the other hand though, sometimes I would rather see a Suikoden game without having a Silverberg as our strategist (or even not as the opponent's strategist either). It would definitely be a good change of pace, and give more opportunity for other people to shine. Also, if we were to have Silverbergs all the time, it's getting cliche because they aren't mysterious at all (compared to the likes of Viki and Jeane who most likely would appear in all Suikoden games until the mystery is solved).
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with that kinda of. I love the silverbergs, it would be different not to have them in a game but still. Maybe there could be a playable silverberg that fights and stuff. Maybe a smart one, but like a soldier or mercenary.
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Falcon Critical
Haia's Star Pupil
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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There is a rumour / discussion that Rikimaru from GS2 is also a silverberg. He's perhaps the closest we get to a playable member of the family.
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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We also had Odessa, so it`s not unthinkable it could happen again. He or she could also be like Salome, who is a strategist who fights as well as plans.
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah but i mean like a SoD. I agree with the Rikimaru/Richard theory. Odessa you could play but she dies soon after and isnt a SoD
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Eggith Cyrene
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yuber is a summoned being. So leon WOULD have had to show albert how to summon him.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Yuber is a summoned being. So leon WOULD have had to show albert how to summon him. |
Yuber is a summoned being? Since when is that an official info anyway? We have practically no information on what Yuber really is. And if Leon really "summoned" Yuber, then basically you're saying that Leon is a strategist who happened to be a summoner as well? Sure that magic skill would come in handy in a fight. Probably he should've summoned Yuber to help him out in the forest when he was about to die perhaps?
While the word being used was indeed "Albert summoned Yuber", but I doubt that it was meant to be taken literally. I don't really think that Yuber would be as a simple as a summoned being like monsters or whatever. It'd be too weak for a True Rune bearer like him to be summoned by others as if he was under their control and not his own.
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KoRnholio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Actually it wasn't the Silverberg school of strategy at all. It was just a normal school, teaching the kids about normal stuff. |
That's not the school he was talking about. I believe Mathiu opened THAT school in Suikoden I because he was tired of the military.
Shu studied military strategy under Mathiu, but got kicked out, etc. But the point is he came from that school of military strategy (it shows as he's similar to Mathiu when compared to Leon). |
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Daniel Blackhand
siswai'aman Brotherhood of Pain
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: |
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A Silverberg thaqt you could actually control in a battle system would be righteous. The ability that they share to manipulate a battle field is unparalled in not only Suikoden but also any other rpg. Their storylines are also very intriguing.
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Sualtam Lugh
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:45 am Post subject: |
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The easiest way to look at Yuber being summoned was....lets pretend Yuber is a drug dealer. Mathiu needs a hit of Heroin really bad. So he calls him up. Yuber drives over to his house with an ounce of Heroin. Bam.
The phoning represents summoning, and the heroin represents the help Yuber would give to Mathiu.
Of course, Mathiu never summoned Yuber. I was just using two random names. |
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Glen Cott
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| That was a.....strange analogy Pyroflame |
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bugg wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yuber is a summoned being. So leon WOULD have had to show albert how to summon him. |
Yuber is a summoned being? Since when is that an official info anyway? We have practically no information on what Yuber really is. And if Leon really "summoned" Yuber, then basically you're saying that Leon is a strategist who happened to be a summoner as well? Sure that magic skill would come in handy in a fight. Probably he should've summoned Yuber to help him out in the forest when he was about to die perhaps?
While the word being used was indeed "Albert summoned Yuber", but I doubt that it was meant to be taken literally. I don't really think that Yuber would be as a simple as a summoned being like monsters or whatever. It'd be too weak for a True Rune bearer like him to be summoned by others as if he was under their control and not his own. |
I`m pretty sure that Yuber is indeed summoned through magic from the "World of Emptiness" or whatever it`s name is. All the signs point to him not being human and originating from there, after all. I`d guess it`s a bit similliar to when Windy in S1 and Luc in S3 are summoning ordinary monsters. And as for Leon not using magic in a fight...I don`t think he`s a strong mage. He could have learned the ritual to summon Yuber somehow, but still not know much else about magic. This reminds me of the theory that someone else might be summoning Pesmerga...but that`s for another topic.
About Yuber being controlled: I don`t think Leon or Albert controls him directly. After getting Yuber`s attention, they probably bargain with him and strike some kind of deal. Yuber helps because he gets some kind of reward for it...maybe the chaos and death of war is his payment, or something else we don`t know about. This theory is also reinforced by the fact that Yuber flees when the nation he`s serving is collapsing. If he really was under the direct control of his summoner, he`d stay and fight to the end.
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Falcon Critical
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwendal wrote: |
I`m pretty sure that Yuber is indeed summoned through magic from the "World of Emptiness" or whatever it`s name is. All the signs point to him not being human and originating from there, after all. I`d guess it`s a bit similliar to when Windy in S1 and Luc in S3 are summoning ordinary monsters. And as for Leon not using magic in a fight...I don`t think he`s a strong mage. He could have learned the ritual to summon Yuber somehow, but still not know much else about magic. This reminds me of the theory that someone else might be summoning Pesmerga...but that`s for another topic.
About Yuber being controlled: I don`t think Leon or Albert controls him directly. After getting Yuber`s attention, they probably bargain with him and strike some kind of deal. Yuber helps because he gets some kind of reward for it...maybe the chaos and death of war is his payment, or something else we don`t know about. This theory is also reinforced by the fact that Yuber flees when the nation he`s serving is collapsing. If he really was under the direct control of his summoner, he`d stay and fight to the end. |
Funny how your two paragraphs completely contradict each other. For a start you say that Yuber is no more than a 'summoned' being like a really strong monster, then you go on to say that they can't control him because he has thoughts and personality...?
Even if Yuber is from 'the world of emptiness', he is an existing entity throughout the Suikoden history. If he can be 'summoned' as you say, what's to stop them creating an army of him?
Hence Pyroflame's analogy stands as the more feasible interpretation. He's from the world of emptiness? Well say I want the good stuff so I buy my drugs directly from America. That's how I see the interpretation of 'summoning' Yuber.
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don`t see any contradiction there...I said that he comes from the same place, and is summoned with a similliar spell or technique, if you will. But since he`s obviously very much superior to most other creatures from there, and has intelligence, personality and bears a True Rune, he can`t be controlled as easily. Yuber and Pesmerga probably belong to some sort of ruling class or elite within that world. Or it might be a bit like the relationship between humans and animals in the real world.
And of course they can`t create an army of him, since he`s a unique individual. By this I mean that he`s a person, but he belongs to a race of others like him, though not identical. For example. if you sent a letter to Toran to ask for the help of McDohl, you might get him to come, but you couldn`t get 10 other McDohls to accompany him. You could get 10 ordinary soldiers, though. Luc and Windy never "created" any monsters anyway, they merely called them from somewher else. The Mirage monsters are pretty similliar to Yuber, though, so that`s the closest you`ll get to making an army of him.
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