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The Dangers of Harmonia and the 27 True Runes.
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Arenegeth




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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Hikusaak has been in control of that rune longer than any other true rune handler we've met thus far.


Sorry but I'm not sure about that, I think according to the time line and from memory without checking Sierra had her Rune before anyone and for the longest time so far, even if the rune spend a lot of years not in her actual possession it still recognized her as the bearer as we all find out in II.

Just not to get any facts wrong...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm, I think you might be right. Sierra has had it a long time. But Sierra was seperated from it for a long while, wasn't she? I think Neclord stole it. So I think that she's been in possession of it longer, but I think Hikusaak has had been in direct contact for it for a very, very long time. I still don't discount the possibility that the rune is influencing him; it wouldn't be the first rune to do so. (Luc and the True Wind Rune, for example.)
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Arenegeth




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Neclord had the Rune but he wasn't the bearer, I don't know the technical repercussions of that if any, in theory it wouldn't make any difference despite lack of physical contact, now the longer a bearer has a rune the more the mastery over it, so time may actually have the opposite effect than the rune controlling you, to you controlling the rune...

There a lot of things we don't know as usual though...

And again we are assuming that Hikusaak still has the Circle rune, I haven't played III but I heard someone mention that Sasarai is the only one that knows where Hikusaak is I don't know if he also knows if he has the rune or at what state he is in...
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Urn

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, eventhough Sierra was the master of the Blue Moon Rune, she no longer needed it. She could live on for eternity without it. The only reason she pursued Neclord was to get it back in order to restore her village. So, when Neclord stole it, he was it's bearer, but it recognized Sierra as its master.

As for whether or not Hikusaak has held the a True Rune the longest, that's speculative, but Sierra has not been in direct contact with the Blue Moon Rune for ages after she overcame its bloodlust phase. She left it in an alter for the people she turned into vampires because they could not survive without it or without drinking the blood of others. So, if you consider that, she hasn't beared a True Rune for centuries, but that's a technicality.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i think that harmonia could want the true runes for good or bad.Good could be to keep them undercover in harmonia so no more suffering is caused,and the bad could be to either do what luc wnated to do and destroy one although they may want to destroy all of them which may rid the suikoden world of them but it will mean that billions may die,and secondly to rule as an evil nation and obliterating every thing in its path.
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Kikito

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that Luc's actions in Suikoden III kind of foreshadows what the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia wants with the true runes(or at least what the Circle Rune wants). In SIII Luc showed whoever you picked as the Flame Champion the world of Dharma(or Order), where everything was in complete harmony. Therefore it is logical to presume that the Circle Rune, which governs Order among other things, would want to pursue this outcome. This could also be used as a possible second explination as to why Harmonia allied with the Grasslands. They also must've wanted to stop Luc because his actions would interfere with its plans of achieving the absolute order of the World of Dharma.
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runemaster

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kikito you are right but if that is what the circle rune wants then why is Luc trying to do it himself.Was he POSSESED!!!!!( or something i really have no idea).
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wow what ever Harmonia's reasons are or any nation trying to gather all 27 true runes the thoughts of the power is staggering as Lino en Kuldes said too many people come after these true runes without known them at all what they do or how dangerous they can be or as in the rune of punishment's case how it transfers from it's killed host to the closest person to the dead host it made Ramada think twice his one sidekick was scared of the thought of it transferring to him, so the person who goes collecting them better be well educated in the true runes overall powers or risk being just another victim to the true rune's potential path of rage some might be not so bad but there are some nasty ones out there remember a true rune can reject anyone it deems unfit Windy foundout when the Souleater rejected her in suikoden 1 and she is suppose to be able to be the only person who knows how to equip more than 1 true rune.
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm What if the true runes where actual manipulating harmonia into collecting them for whatever the reason of the true runes. As for Harmonia motives power would obviously be the first. But from what has happened so far in the suikoden universe I dont think collecting all the true runes is there goal. There are many instances where they could have obtain a true rune and didn't try. For example suikoden 2 if they really want all true runes why not obtain Jowy and Hero2 rune. All they had to do was aid Highland. And with Sasaria finding out Luc was in Hero2 army they should have been more motivated to help defeat them and then take the true runes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think whoever owns all the true runes sort of controls the natural processes in the world so if harmonia controls all of them. They basically control the world. Each true rune has a purpose in this world so I think they probably just want to lock it up somewhere and use it when the time is right. Or another possible thing would be that they don't want people using it so no one would beat their gigantic army and there would be no threats to their glorious nation.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think Suikoden V proved one important fact. True Runes can control and will control Bearers. Sure, the Sun Rune was an unstable Rune which needed two other Runes to control it's Destructive side (You can thank the Star Dragon Sword/Night Rune for that), but we were shown how a True Rune can exert it's will over others, even when they don't bear it. So, it's not farfetched to think Hikusaak and even the Country of Harmonia as a whole has come under the control of it's will and influence.

It's way late, but until very late in the game Luc was acting under harmonian orders (on the surface) in his hunt for the True Fire Rune. Remember, all Mercenaries where ordered to search for the Fire Bringer and find the fabled True Fire Rune the Flame Champion bore. So yes, Harmonia was searching for a Rune, especifically the True Fire Rune. It's also worth noting True Water was seeked in the past by Harmonia, which is why Chris' Father faked his death and hid as a Karayan.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

well, I guess one way to think of it as a "one rune to rule them all"? prehaps a gathering will keep scatterd runes in one place (thats pretty orderly to me)
having them all in one place could stop wars caused by floating runes.
maybe thats whats going on?

with a rune of change, you run away from that. or want things to be seperated.
maybe if all the runes gather in one place the whole Yuber-Pesmeraga battle thing happes, granted they are represented of these sword and sheild deities. Causing things to go around again, the end becoms a begining or it all begings with an end. or one existance's book is closed and sealed.

then again we do have the classic meglomania modle of true rune collecting.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
It's way late, but until very late in the game Luc was acting under harmonian orders (on the surface) in his hunt for the True Fire Rune. Remember, all Mercenaries where ordered to search for the Fire Bringer and find the fabled True Fire Rune the Flame Champion bore. So yes, Harmonia was searching for a Rune, especifically the True Fire Rune. It's also worth noting True Water was seeked in the past by Harmonia, which is why Chris' Father faked his death and hid as a Karayan.


I believe Harmonia order to hunt after the True Fire Rune had more of they beign afraid Flame Champion was back this time to fight Zexen, and the possibility he could fight to free former grassland clans and villages now under Harmonian rule (and the man seemed to be able to drag a war, look at the first Fire Bringer War, it took 18 years - from IS 407 to IS 425).

I mean, before going after the TFR Luc was looking for the TWR near Karaya and then before the TFR was unlocked he went into Alma Kinan's village to try to unlock TWR. He was cleary from the start trying to get his own goals, but was hiding it from the Harmonian upper echelons.
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Where to start with this one (man I'm up late and thinking waaaaaay too much about this stuff. Please forgive if my tiredness is making me type nonsense or if I just missed or forgot important stuff in the games)...

I don't see how it could be said that Harmonia doesn't want all the Runes for itself, regardless of the motivation. That just seems to always be a factor in everything we've seen with them (Harmonians that is). I'm in the middle of my second playthrough of 3 and I'd say Harmonia saw the acts of stopping the Fire Bringer and taking True Fire as the same thing. Sure they didn't want to lose any territory and slaves they'd already gained, but Harmonia only seems to make a move when there's a Rune involved that they would have the potential to take.

As far as Luc is concerned, it's true that he only wanted them for his own use in destroying Wind, but I thought something was odd about how it all went down. He was supposed to need 2 of them to take each of the others from its bearer. But he couldn't get any of them before they went to Chris, Hugo and Geddoe, and you don't get someone's Rune just by fighting them... so how did he take Sasarai's first?

Either there was another Rune present that wasn't mentioned or Sassy gave his up willingly since Luc didn't kill him to get it by force. Since it's not likely Hikusaak or some random Rune was there with them for Luc to use, I'm going with the latter option of Sassy's compliance. But why would he do that?

Because he's a sneaky little brat that thought he could just take all of those Runes after Luc collected them. I don't think he would have been able to justify Harmonia's siding with the Fire Bringer any other way. It was practically defecting and would have been considered treason for anything less than the potential to get all of the True element Runes for Harmonia. Only his plan backfired, because he wasn't able to get True Wind from Luc in the end which he would have needed to be able to take the other Runes from their bearers.

I also wonder if Luc's visions weren't somehow sent to him via the Circle Rune. I'm not sure about that Rune controlling Hikusaak though. If other Runes aren't partial to Harmonian control, why wouldn't the Circle feel the same? Maybe it doesn't want to be part of Hikusaak/Harmonia's agenda?

Characters have a tendency to mention that the Runes are too much for humans to handle, so wouldn't having all of them be impossible to control? I'd think that would result in the worst sort of chaos before that dead world could come about, which I'm pretty sure the Circle wouldn't like at all. It's not too far of a stretch to suggest that the Circle could be responsible through the visons for Luc's actions and how they more or less brought the second Fire Bringer together because of the need to stop the plan. Might also explain why the Destoyers are Stars of Destiny- even though they fought against the Fire Bringer, they were doing something that would keep Harmonia from gaining control over more Runes and expanding its borders.

Ok that was too damn long and I'm sorry for the bleeding eyes of anyone who made it through all of that... Going to bed now lol
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dangers of Harmonia and the 27 True Runes. Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well I think that Harmonia is linked to the Order and Chaos conflict, and then maybe Hikusaak is collecting true runes in order to fight this chaos enemy. I dont remeber very well, but Luc mentions a conflict beetween order and chaos, right?

So Harmonia = order, Chaos/order Balance = Leeknaat and Chaos = Yuber? Syndar? Windy? (there are many candidates).

Of course they could just make Harmonia/order evil, like Tierkreis, but I would prefer Hikusaak to be a gray villain.
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