Lulu-Speculation

Earthquake923 · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: Lulu-Speculation

I was thinking about Suikoden 3 the other day, and I wondered if Lulu was supposed to have a bigger part. In all the other games a character dies, and the gathering sorta brings that character back. I was wondering if Lulu was supposted to return, but the game creator left before he had a chance to finish. What do you guys think?
Note:I am not to sure if this belongs here or not, so if it doesn't can some please move it.
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Acheron · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject:

Spoiler Heavy

I didn't get the feel that the game was necesarily unfinished. I did like Lulu, despite his childish-ness. Many people were turned off by him becaues he was a stereotypical kid who thinks he's better than he actually is. I disagree, but thats not the thread topic, I'll get back on topic now. I think you were supposed to start getting attached to him, thinking that he will be a mainstay in your party and then having him torn away so suddenly was supposed to make you shocked and saddened. Play with your emotions like a ragdoll. I would have wished to see him return. Especially after Jimba died too. You'd think 1 death would be enough. That does support your case somewhat though, that Jimba was supposed to die and Lulu was supposed to come back somehow.

Adrian Magicent · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject:

Myself, I thought all the deaths made sense, and didn't get that feeling, really.

Krawnik · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject:

Personally, I think death was treated in Suikoden III better than it was previously. Besides Teo, I didn't really feel much for previous Suikoden casualties. Lulu I actually liked, if not as a character than just out of some big-brother instinct. Jimba's death was particularly well done. The way that Luc and co. treat him like a dead dog when he's lying there, and knowing based on how Luc is when you enter the scene that Jimba put up a decent fight. It really bolstered Jimba's character, who I already really liked. That he fought the Destroyers, and even managed to gain some ground on Luc, that he unleashed the power of the True Water Rune. The way he spoke to Chris before he died, too. The whole scene was really well done.

As for Lulu's return, I don't think at all that that was the intention of the writers. For the only time in the series, gathering the 108 Stars (which included your four nemeses O_o) didn't have any significant impact upon the main storyline, but gave you access to that behind-the-scenes ordeal. So I don't think that Lulu was at all supposed to be revived. It'd definetly remove from the emotion of his death, much in the same way Gremio's revival and Nanami's whole "I'm not dead!" thing adhered the emotional weight of their respective murders.
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Scarlet Assassin · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject:

He didn't seem important enough to me to revive. Personally I like it better this way, Everyone dying and being revived was getting fairly...who am I kidding? REALLY LAME.
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Adrian Magicent · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject:

I thought the Luc chapter was the best of the bonuses for 108 stars. However, I don't agree about Nanami really lessening it, too much. I liked how that was done. The Gremio one also made sense, really. Though, I didn't really like Gremio or care.

Thief · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:46 am Post subject:

For me, Suikoden III had too much mid-game Star deaths. Yun played as much role as Sana, yet the latter wasn't part of the new Fire Bringer. Jimba was alright, but is making him a Star really necessary?

As for Lulu, he reminds me of Odessa or Glen. While being non-stars, their deaths served as a catalyst of sorts for the upcoming events. It had a big impact on both Hugo and Chris, and that was his "bigger part" in the game. Like most non-stars before him, I don't think the team did consider bringing him back, if ever.

Nothing beats Nanami's "fake death" though. They tried to rehash Gremio's return, but resorted to such cheap alternative due to the lack of resurrection device in the plot. If anything, I felt III's 108 Stars bonus to be more meaningful.

(There are too many mysteries surrounding Suikoden III and Murayama's departure from the series. And it seems everyone enjoys creating what-should-have-been myths out of nowhere these days...)

Krawnik · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:

Oh wait, I remember one more death scene that impacted me.

Pohl :cry:

He was such a trooper! As soon as I saw him I thought we were gonna bring him with us when we escaped and have zany adventures! Then he just got pwned by Luca! Man, the first time I saw that I freaked right out.
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RedCydranth · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:

Sure gremio and Nanami's return from death were cool and it appeared to be a mainstay in the Suiko series at the time, but Suiko III didn't need that. Personally I hated Lulu, and since I played Chris's scenario 1st, I wasn't shocked by his death when I played Hugo's. Had I played Hugo's I'd probably had more emotion to it, but it was far too early to get an attachment to a character. Especially one as annoying as Lulu. Perhaps if they killed off Joker, Sgt. Joe or Salome later on in the game, (Depending who you selected as Flame Champion) a revival would be fitting. But to include a revival of a character that you had little to no emotional connection to, would be a downfall on the game. At the points in which Gremio and Nanami die in their games, you had a much bigger chance to use them and like them. Nanami is forced into the party numerous times, and Gremio is one of Tir's best friends and his protector. Lulu doesn't seem to be as influential to the entire game as Namami and Gremio were. Only to Hugo, and Chris to a certain extent, did Lulu's death mean anything. If you focused your game on Geddoe, how pointless would it be to revive Lulu? And if Chris could pick someone to revive, it'd probably be Jimba or Yun.
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Keriaku · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject:

I agree with RedCydranth, it wouldn't have really worked if anyone was revived in Suikoden 3 because there was different points of view. As he said, if Geddoe was the Flam Champion, why would he care? It would only work if 3 characters died, and whoever was the Flame Champion, they could decided who was revived (That would've been good for replay value as well).

On a side note, I really liked Nanami, and I was glad she came back :D
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kuwaizair · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:

I don't think he was ment to come back either, maybe his death was symbolic as well, comming into a new world and age, and growing up. If Lulu was "ment to play the part of the child", then him dying could mean somthing. I can't say anymore, its on the tip of my toung...but I can't grasp it.
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Earthquake923 · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

Okay, Lulu aside, Doesn't it seem odd that all the other games have a gathering resurection. This one didn't, so IF game writers weren't changed, maybe some one would have come back, maybe Chris' dad, maybe Lulu, or maybe some other person from other chapters. I just thought that they were setting up for it, but didn't do it.
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Tonberry · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:

Yes, I agree with you Earthquake. I had thought they'd bring Lulu back. I had my hopes up when there was that transparent image of Lulu in that scene in the Ceremonial Site (the one you get if you have Hugo, Sgt. Joe, and Fubar in the party). I honestly expected a ressurection of some sort. How could they kill off a little boy? It's so harsh.

RedCydranth · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject:

But, like I said before, if you focused on geddoe the whole game, reviving Lulu would be irrelevant. perhaps the idea i had that one of the loved ones who died in each scenario were to be revived, or if someone close to all 3 died, then a revival would be warranted.

Hugo -> Lulu
Chris -> Jimba (would Hugo then have to return True Water to him?)
Geddoe -> no one close to him dies within the timeframe of the game. Perhaps Flame Champion? And if he were to be revived, would Geddoe return the True Fire to him? would Hugo return True Lightning to Geddoe? Sure, he COULD revive Zepon, but is he a good enough friend to revive him?

The only characters that are important that die in Suiko III are Lulu, Jimba, Zepon, Yun, Sarah and Luc. None of them are close to Geddoe..... Oh wait....

Hugo -> Lulu
Chris -> Yun
Geddoe -> Jimba

Of course! how could I forget they were ol' war buddies! :roll:

This is all moot though. No ressurection takes place, unfortunately.
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Sophita · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject:

I disagree. I think Lulu's death was primarily a plot point, meant to motivate Hugo into action. If Lulu hadn't died, Hugo's story never would have the weight and drama of it if Lulu didn't die. It's what puts Hugo into the story, and motivates him. Lulu had to die for Hugo to go on. And yes, it's harsh, but war is harsh; it hurts both adults and children alike.
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