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Himuro
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Lastly is Suikoden IV, probably the most underrated game in history |
That's reaching. I can name far, far, FAR more high quality titles than Suikoden IV that are underrated. Out of my collection at the top of my head: Psychonauts, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 1 and 2, Hoshigami, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and DDS.
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| It is easily the worst Suikoden, and not an incredible RPG by far, but giving it scores of 6, 5, or lower (out of ten) is just unfair. |
A score of 5 or 6 means the game is average. If it's not incredibly good at the genre it's in then it doesn't deserve an 8, 9, or 10 now does it? If it's not a great rpg, but not absolutely dreadful, then it's average. Those are the types of scores IV recieved, so that means the scores it got were pretty fitting, doesn't it? And if it's the worst Suikoden...then how is it vastly underrated? To be underrated you have to atleast be good in the category you're in. The category you grouped your post in was the quality of each Suikoden game as a Suikoden game, as opposed to compoared to other rpgs and games. And I thought you weren't basing your opinions off of the game media's ratings. :(
I don't think IV is underated at all. I think that game deserves the hate it gets. It's not even bad in limitation to Suikoden but rpgs and games in general. In terms of game design it's an absolute failure: ridiculous random battle rates that are made that way to increase the other wise short gameplay time, collision detection up the wazoo, simplistic and kindergarten aimed battle system that is the definition of "dumbed down", a plot that doesn't answer a lot of it's questions, and doesn't develop any either, the plot is so short you could write the whole plot idea yourself in about 5 minutes on the can, little if any characterization (and if there are chracters that are centered on they don't get enough time), the bland enviroments that are all gray, the unimaginative atmosphere, the unimaginative characters, the overall character designs;etc. etc.
I'm a big Suikoden fan but Suikoden IV really really is a below average game to me. Konami can do better than that. The fact they released the game that way really irks me personally. It felt like it was made by a C-list game designers. A game so bad I had to force myself to beat it. I didn't do that with I-III at all.
edited because I had lots of typos.
Last edited by Himuro on Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:42 pm; edited 10 times in total |
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Cyrano
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| poorguy171 wrote: |
And lastly, the ship sailing system didn't seem too slow to me at all. Maybe it's just because I'm a very slow-paced person, but that is a very exagerrated flaw, and I had no problem with it at all.
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yeah well what mostly bothered people was that its was long for nothing and that it had a HIIIIIGH battle encounter rate.
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Himuro
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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The sailing system is slow. I compare it to Zelda: Wind Waker which has a pretty much similar and infinitely superior system. Even though distances were long Wind Waker, areas didn't look the same, they weren't boring, and there was LOTS to do on the ocean: you could take over forts, raid pirate ships, search for treature, take on gigantic squids;etc. it was awesome and extremely epic. This is how I wanted sailing in IV. In IV however, the sea looks the same throughout the game. No weather changes. There happens to be noone else at sea with you for *some* reason, so there's no pillaging pirate ships, and the like. In Wind Waker things were long distances but you atleast had some activity to make sailing fun on the way to your destination. Suikoden IV did not do this whatsoever, all the game did was have you sail from place to place for 30 minutes fighting random battles. Both boring and uninspired.
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| First of all, it is very-much-so a "rehash" of I. While there are changes, even the main plot is very similar. It did step up the character development and story, but I still feel it had its flaws. |
Rehash? Suikoden II is no way similar to Suikoden I story wise or characterization wise. What you described was what a sequel is. Guess what Suikoden II is: a sequel. Suikoden II is the perfect sequel for many reasons: 1. It improved the main mechanics and idea from the first game and almost perfected them 2. Gameplay is somewhat deeper 3. The characters that you met in I that there just to be there were given much much much more thought and characterization, thus making appreciation for Suikoden I rise. This is what a sequel should aspire to be and Suikoden II does this in spades. I don't feel any of SI's flaws when playing SII. They improved everything 1000 x. The only thing I can complain about was that you can equip/unequip/see what armor characters have while in the party choosing menu. But then, what Suikoden has added that feature? I'm still waiting for it. |
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codemasterda
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Suikoden 4 was decent, though I can see why a die hard fan would despise it, but 4 had it's moment,s it should have been longer. |
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poorguy171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Himuro wrote: |
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| Lastly is Suikoden IV, probably the most underrated game in history |
That's reaching. I can name far, far, FAR more high quality titles than Suikoden IV that are underrated. Out of my collection at the top of my head: Psychonauts, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 1 and 2, Hoshigami, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and DDS. |
I said underrated, not unpopular. The people who I know have played these games have praised them to no end.
Okay, I'll admit, maybe I was being too nice on Suikoden IV. But I still do believe that people overly exagerrate in insulting it. It isn't a bad RPG on it's own, and still has a plot to rival that in some of today's other RPGs. And yes, the battle system was rather simple, but still well-designed and about as complex as it was in I, maybe even II.
| Himuro wrote: |
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| First of all, it is very-much-so a "rehash" of I. While there are changes, even the main plot is very similar. It did step up the character development and story, but I still feel it had its flaws. |
Rehash? Suikoden II is no way similar to Suikoden I story wise or characterization wise. What you described was what a sequel is. Guess what Suikoden II is: a sequel. Suikoden II is the perfect sequel for many reasons: 1. It improved the main mechanics and idea from the first game and almost perfected them 2. Gameplay is somewhat deeper 3. The characters that you met in I that there just to be there were given much much much more thought and characterization, thus making appreciation for Suikoden I rise. This is what a sequel should aspire to be and Suikoden II does this in spades. I don't feel any of SI's flaws when playing SII. They improved everything 1000 x. The only thing I can complain about was that you can equip/unequip/see what armor characters have while in the party choosing menu. But then, what Suikoden has added that feature? I'm still waiting for it. |
Yes, it did make some small changes, but for the most part II was the same as I. It followed a similar plotline (and I don't mean just the war theme), and had many of the same themes. Except for a few small things (such as rune slots), the battle system remained the same. And why are you getting so flustered about this? I don't remember saying a rehash of I was a bad thing! In fact, it was more a good thing than any. I'm just saying the improvements or changes were to small to feel like any significance to me. Had the characters not been better developed, and there not been 3 rune slots, I probably would've liked I more than II.
And compare the changes from I to II to the changes from II to III and III to IV, even what we've seen in IV to V. III changed just about every small detail, and IV got a new graphic style, a new battle system (not necessarily a good thing in this case), as well as the boat as a headquarters.
I'm sorry that so many of you disliked what I said, but it's my opinion, and I have just as much a right to say what I think as the rest of you do. You don't see me complaining about your posts (and believe me, there were a lot of things I wanted to say). If you want to argue with me about my preferences, let's do it in a separate topic or PMs, okey?
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Vincent Chase
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can really only say things about Suikoden III and Suikoden IV, them being the only two I've played. Everyday I hear about how good the first two games are, and though I never got to play them, that games that are (supposedly) that good are still relatively unknown makes them severely underrated.
But I think a better word is 'Underappreciated' for the series. Most people who play the first three games of the series speak of the games as if they were life-altering experiences, and I'm not saying that they aren't, but the series really has no shortage of Praise towards it. The games are more like 'afterthought RPGs', in the same class as the LUNAR series, Dragon Warrior (North America) and Breath of Fire; If it doesn't say 'Square-Enix' on the box, the public really has no way to take notice.
So, based on what I've heard:
Suikoden - Underappreciated
Suikoden II - Underappreciated
Suikoden III was at the time and still to this day is one of my favorite RPGs. The diverse array of characters, the cartoony (but not too cartoony) graphics, the deep story and diverse character relationships. Along with the Zelda series, no other game, to me had a world that feels as real as Suikoden. About the only thing I didn't like was the battle system and enemy design, but these issues are pretty minor, given the extremely solid story and character development. Suikoden III is also underappreciated, because most online reviews deservedly give it over 90%, but it's still not in as many homes as Final Fantasy X.
I only played Suikoden IV recently, and probably because I was still high on III, I thought it would be good. It's not a bad game, but it just feels almost...rushed. I have no idea why the Skill system and 6-team party system were removed, but perhaps they wanted to try a change. The voice acting was satisfactory, better than FFX or FFX2 I thought, and the weapon customization was amazing, and probably the one great thing that Suikoden IV brings to the series.
The game seemed too short as well. I spent over 120 hours on III, but topped off at 45 on IV, which is just too big of a drop-off. I have extremely high hopes for Suikoden V.
It's nowhere near the worst RPG that I've ever played. Final Fantasy X2...Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles...Final Fantasy VIII...anything with Pokemon in the title, Suikoden IV is better than them all, if barely.
So here is what I think, feel free to substitute meaning.
Suikoden - Underappreciated
Suikoden II - Underappreciated
Suikoden III - Underappreciated
Suikoden IV - Really isn't anything special |
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Zeik Tuvai
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Suikoden has a bigger fan base then games like Dragon Force, which is pretty much like a more controlled version of the Suikoden I war battles.
I fully agree with The Hot Ice. Suikoden isn't under or over rated, but under appreciated. Not many people know about it, and sadly, that makes it under appreciated. Nice observation, Hot Ice!
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Himuro
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| I didn't dislike what you said, just saying my opinion. :) I respect your opinion completely. |
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MrMan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that the whole suikoden series is underrated... especially 1 & 2
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Vince Muerto
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Suikoden 1: Underrated. This game may have been short and the world may have been cliche, but it was still one of the best games ever. There were tons of cool characters, most with good stories behind them. A lot of games can't even give a good story to one character, yet Suikoden did it to many. It also layed the framework for the rest of the series.
Suikoden 2: Just about right. This game receives the most praise of all the series. It gave great character development, plot, and fun gameplay. It deserves all the praise it gets, no more and no less.
Suikoden 3: Underrated. I hear people complaining about this game all the time. I have no problems at all with this game. In fact, it is my favorite in the series. I liked the charcter development, even with side characters.
Suikoden 4: Overrated. This game didn't fit with the others at all. By itself it might have been an OK game, but because it is in the Suikoden series, it is expected to have some relation to the rest of the series. Any praise it receives is too much.
I also agree with The Hot Ice. The series as a whole is underappreciated. Even though it is a great series, most people don't know of it. Like he said, if an RPG doesn't say Square on the box it is often overlooked.
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Mukumuku
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Suikoden is the most underrated game in the history of RPG's. It gets me mad how many Final Fantasy Fans there are and how much merchantdise ther is for Final Fantasy, yet suikoden fans have very little reconition and few merchantdise. And its a way better seris anyway! |
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amadeusx
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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i would haev to agree with The Hot Ice.
after reading most of the posts it seems as if "masterpiece" and "really sucked" (or something along those lines) were thrown around a lot. i'm one of the ones that played the second generation suikoden (meaning suikoden on ps2) i didn't have the chance to get or play suikoden 1 or 2. why? becuase i was too young then and i didn't have a playstation that belonged to me. i played other games and ff7 was one i remembered. why? because like The Hot Ice said it's underappreciated. at the time i was 9 or 10 when i played ff7 i understand some of it but not much. i played other rpg after that.(i really like characters and such in stories and games). suikoden appealed to me because of the characters you can recruit and use in battle. that's why i picked it up a few months ago. and i have to say that 3 is a great game and 4 is a good game although four could have a little more work. i want to play suiko1 and 2 but the price tag on those games are just too high. why? because its hard to get and more people wants to play it now. but not as much as people wanting to play ff games. and to be honest i can't wait for future suikoden games. to be on topic i would say that suikoden 3 is underrated because people judged it "different" then 1 and 2 therefore it sucked. and 4 rated as it should be good but can be improved. as for 1 and 2 i havent played those so i won't give it a over- or under- rating.
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