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Where are the Final Fantasy Tactics of yesteryear?
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Anamanaguchi




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It is definately not a rip off if the actual same development team that did Tactics Ogre was in on it.
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Arcana

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It was a jack, then. :) Quest got jacked of all of its programmers.

Anyway, I think SRPGs are starting to go to hell too.... the primary culprit I can think of being Nippon Ichi, who started off as a company with some innovative ideas before it took these ideas, ran with them, and decided that reusing the same game style in four different games ends up being much cheaper and more productive than building new concepts. La Pucelle was sweet and funny. Disgaea was moderately entertaining. But Disgaea had gameplay that sucked.... I could go on for ages about this, but I think I've done so on this forum already. But let me reiterate for the sake of argument.

Disgaea has no strategy. Its only strategy involves "Level up." This is what really doomed Disgaea for me - when I realised that the only way really to win was to just keep levelling up, I put it down. There were occasional fun things to do in the game, like fight Level 100 characters with your Level 50 party on a map with Invincibility tiles and a huge Geo Chain, but those moments were few. Overall, Disgaea was just "Move your character HERE. Press attack. Repeat." If you were losing? The strategy was to level up more. Honestly... I hate levelling up, and levelling up in Disgaea was about as tediuos in any other game. For some reason, I bought Phantom Brave, but then lent it out in exchange for Star Ocean 3, which, while cheesy, chaotic, and frustrating, has been more entertaining thus far.

I think it's the entire Japanese RPG forumla... the "raise levels, wander in dungeons, kick ass" concept that really makes RPGs so dull. The story is supposed to be memorable too, but I think as we game players from the 1990's get older, we're running out of time and therefore need games that simply DON'T SUCK. Sucky battle systems that take a long time are real time-wasters and button mashing without thinking, or in the case of SRPGs, moving before hitting an enemy, is really just no fun. Little customization of parties... bad interfaces for equipping weapons and armour and skills and so forth really compound the problem.

My games that I've really enjoyed in the past three or four so years have been mostly games that don't receive a lot of attention... I really loved Valkyrie Profile (fun battle system! SO FUN), Star Ocean 3 (another fun battle system - another Tri-Ace production), Suikoden III (despite popular belief, I thought the battle system wasn't so bad - at least Suikoden III uses an exponential levelling system so you don't have to spend years raising levels of low-level characters. Also, great character development really redeems it), Final Fantasy X (I found it entertaining - good, fast battles, interesting-enough storyline, and not too redundant - except for the damn Sphere mini game in the temples) and Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter (this game rules in so many ways and has an awesome battle system... it's worthy of being called actual strategy since it actually requires THOUGHT).

The "Press A to attack" formula is old and ancient and should be removed forever from games, I think, as should the "oops random battle" and the "wow enemies regenerate every room". Anything that wastes the player's time should be axed out of a game. Things that should stay, of course, are fun customizations and games that allow you to make cool, elaborate combinations (which is why Final Fantasy has actually been pretty good for me - FFX and FF7 both allowed you to combine abilities to make totally awesome kickass combinations. I'm sure everyone knew about the FF7 cheese ability, which was like, Attack-All, W-Attack, Magic Steal or something, where you get two attacks to hit everyone, PLUS you regenerate MP. Or something like that. FFX lets you get weapon combinations like "Counter-evade - Deathstrike", which basically means that if you're attacked, you dodge it and then counterattack with a blow that does instant death.

This is also why FFT got so many awesomeness points. Teleport-Two swords and other things like that were just way too fun.

But... I like games that are off-the-ball and don't receive recognition. Other favourites of mine are Tactics Ogre, Xenogears (only because of the kickass story, because Xenogears' battle system was a total bore) and Kartia (because of the beautiful artwork and awesome dialog; Kartia's battle system was also a total bore, but at least it wasn't hard). And of course. FFT I think earns bonus points for being maybe one of two games that I've ever beat on my Playstation more than once. Yes, you heard me. In all of my years of owning a PSX and PS2, I've cleared only TWO GAMES more than once. Those games? Valkyrie Profile (once on normal, once on hard), and Final Fantasy Tactics. I've ALMOST cleared Tactics Ogre two times, except that I keep copping out of it at the very end. I suppose you could claim that I beat Kartia twice too, but since I played both quests I don't really see it as going through the game twice. Everything else in my collecction gets the "Beat once, never touch it again" treatment.
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Anamanaguchi




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh my God, how can people type out so much? Does everyone really have this kind of time to read and type this stuff? I wish people would just sum it up and get to the main points of their novels.
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Cedric

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, all of it is necessary to strengthen or make his point. What's wrong with writing that much if it helps his argument?
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Anamanaguchi




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's just too much to read Ced The Lad. That user obviously made his/her points plenty of times in that short novel. Why aren't posts limited to word amount?
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Cedric

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's because there are limitless ways and limitless points a person can make to prove their point. You may not enjoy it, but one liners and short posts are not the best way to communicate. Detail is needed to explain one's self. If someone agrees with what he is saying, they would explain why they share the same opinions and possibly add to the topic itself. And what if someone else here challenges his ideas? Arcana would need all he can to prove to this other person that what he believes, is right. Having multiple points not only strengthens his opinions, but makes it harder for the opposing person to tackle his ideas. Regardless of whether it is truth or not, everyone here has a fair and equal chance to explain their ideas and share their opinions in full. Why should anyone limit them of that opportunity?

Frankly, a word limit is counter-productive to a site that is focused on interaction and discussion. That type of change wouldn't even warrant initial thought. But we've derailed the subject at hand, long enough. If you wish to discuss this matter further, then by all means, PM me.

I could have given you a one-liner instead of the post here, but this makes it clearer to understand.
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sometimes a point isn't necessary. What's wrong with stating your opinion and letting others pick through it and raise discussion? I enjoy reading the more longer posts.
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Anamanaguchi




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Long posts like that eventually become tedious after a few paragraphs, I mean how long does it take to get your act together and make a point.
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Exile

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Really, what business is it of yours how people choose to express their opinions? If you don't want to read longer posts and you find them boring just don't do it, there's no need to moan about it like this.

Do you think I've made my point fast enough or should I condense it some more? :roll:
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Anamanaguchi




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Spare me the sarcasm. Listen let's not go off topic. Screw it. I just won't bother reading the long posts unless someone reassures me that it's worth reading..

What I am wondering these days is, when the team that is working on Final Fantasy XII is finished, are they going to get to work on Final Fantasy Tactics II? I would love that. It would be hard to figure out what the story would be built on. Maybe the war Ramza's father was in? I just hope they do make one. FFTA's really doesn't cut it as a sequel.

Edit: Ced, where is my avatar?
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Exile

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Avatars only appear on the first post you make on the page, if you look to the top of this page you'll find yours is there as usual.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Another FFT would suck. I mean, we know the details, the outcomes and everything. Why build upon another story that was merely touched upon in an even greater one? FFT stands nicely on its own.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anamanaguchi wrote:
Long posts like that eventually become tedious after a few paragraphs, I mean how long does it take to get your act together and make a point.


if you don't beat around the bush, or beat the ever-living-love out of it then you get no potch, or very little
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Arcana

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anamanaguchi wrote:
Spare me the sarcasm. Listen let's not go off topic. Screw it. I just won't bother reading the long posts unless someone reassures me that it's worth reading..

What I am wondering these days is, when the team that is working on Final Fantasy XII is finished, are they going to get to work on Final Fantasy Tactics II? I would love that. It would be hard to figure out what the story would be built on. Maybe the war Ramza's father was in? I just hope they do make one. FFTA's really doesn't cut it as a sequel.

Edit: Ced, where is my avatar?


It's not Square's style to make direct sequels like that. FFT is especially excempt because I don't think that the producers and developers are all available to work on the game.

FFTA was a pale shadow in comparison to the original.

Finally, I write a lot because: a) I have a lot to say and no one's stopping me from saying it; b) I visit this forum maybe once a month so I'm going to type all I want to when I do; and c) a high word-count to posting ratio ensures that you get higher stats and more money. :)
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