Proof that Valeria ousts Killey for the maximum damage title!

[Adrian Magicent]

I agree, and I think it's a lot more like she should have been in the first one. I like Valeria a lot to use. Though, I'm one of those who often gets Kasumi. Though, not for either of those reasons. I get her for interaction between her and McDohl, since I liked those two as a couple (One can hope, after all.)

[Vextor]

I sure have seen it many times. I've trioed the very same thing you tried.

[Beecham]

I have to disagree...

I got Kasumi early usually because I use Mondo and Sasuke... Once I brought them both to the Beast Rune battle, so I must say that while Valeria is a powerhouse, one cannot deny that Mondo and Sasuke isn't useful early... (Though I must admit, I almost never use Kasumi except in the Luca battle...)

[KoRnholio]

Nobody's saying Valeria isn't an excellent character. But the way this was presented was a grandiose "ousting" of Killey from the top of the damage spectrum (Re: The topic title and restated about ten more times soon after), which doesn't seem to be true to me at all. Really, all those characters with three rune slots are up there, and Valeria gets up there, just with a different set of multipliers. But she doesn't really seem to breach that level.

And I'm sorry I even mentioned the 'this does no damage' thing. I was taken way out of context. I wasn't using it as a defense of Killey, just pointing it out.

As for the stat stones comment, that is simply an in-game trick, similar to the Kindness Rune trick which you have bringing up Valeria to 999 without concern for anything else. Both are "cheats" but don't require use of any external cheat devices. Stat stones wouldn't do anything for Valeria, anyhow. Her ATK is set at 999, and she doesn't have a Warrior Rune under your setup, so the PROT won't matter.

The math both from you and from kfcrispy's Killey setup use 50,000 as a 'target' value. How are they different?


On a different note.....
I remember long ago that SARSadmin got a gigantic amount of damage with the one unite....I believe Sierra, Bolgan, and Bob. Wasn't that enough to overshoot the damage array too? Wouldn't that have been noticed?

[Krawnik]

Okay, I'm not all that hot on numbers or whatever (although I'm easily impressed by big ones, so I'm rather enjoying this topic), but I do have a question that I might find a bit more practical in my playthroughs- what's this "Kindness Rune" trick that you're using to max your character's PATK stat?
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[Falcon Critical]

Okay I'm sorry KoRnholio, I've been pushing Valeria's case a long time, I'll let it go.

Unite damage, getting this as high as possible I see a few options.

Wakaba + LC Chan
Sierra + Bob + Bolgan
Valeria + Anita

We could then even try to find the highest entire party damage, Tir and Riou probably capable of such a feat.

I'm not sure how much damage can be attained with the Bob/Sierra/Bolgan unite, I'll give that a try and Bob max damage setup. It does seem weird that the damage limit hasn't been broken before now.
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[cid]

victor-i mean 7k or 8k

[Adrian Magicent]

The Kindness rune trick comes from the fact that it increases as per time with it. However, it lowers when you die. So, if you get a character's bonus down to the minimum and they die, it goes automatically to 999 PATK, for a short time. That's it, basically.

[Pyriel]

Eh...It's unlikely that total damage is formulated using an array. The most likely explanation is that it's a signed 16-bit integer. Other games I've played with represent damage as positive numbers and recovery as negative numbers. Both are applied by the same routine, so a healing item in essence does negative damage. Konami probably didn't anticipate damages this high, so they didn't bounds check their damage formula. The result is an overflow error, with the damage becoming a negative value. When passed to the hp modification routine, a negative number is subtracted from the current hit point value, thus your enemy was healed 11, 802 hit points.

If it can be assumed that the overflow behaved in a predictable manner, then the actual damage total from the calculation would be 0xD1E4 (-11, 802). That would equate to a positive integer of 53,732.

The only way to absolutely confirm this would be to hack around with the game's code a bit. Konami has a penchant for doing things in odd ways, so it's possible there's some other factor at work here.

[Falcon Critical]

[Pyriel]

It's possible, but I won't go as far as to say it's likely. This assumes that the formula is applied using only integer arithmetic (or at least that the end result is directly converted to integer with no regard given to bounds), no further calculations are applied to negative values at any point, etc. And the whole thing is founded on the assumption that this game behaves in a manner consistent with other games. Under ideal circumstances, that's what would happen when the value overflows. The main point is that you can't accurately assess the total when an error of this sort occurs. At least not without debugging.

For instance, what happens when you smack a fire-aligned monster with a fire weapon (it's been a while since I played this, I seem to recall this is possible), is it healed for the flat value of damage, or is a modifier applied? If it's as simple as Recovery = Damage / 2, then the actual overflow might have been -23,604, which would equate to 41,930 damage. This would depend on where the modifier is applied, if one exists, and that the game interpreted a negative value passed from or created by the damage calculation as an elemental-match heal. Sorry, I honestly can't recall how this works, and to search for it would take too long.

What's the maximum number of hits by the way? I'm thinking two, but there might be a character I rarely messed with who hit three times.

[KFCrispy]

dudes. my "50,000", if you didn't notice, was rounded. just do the math yourself and you get something over 50k. you have to take into account that Killey can achieve a higher base attack (over 1000) with equivalent multipliers to Valeria, and Valeria in this case only has 999. Valeria technically does slightly less than 50k because the math was done with 1000, not 999. Killey does over.

however, interestingly enough, i never cared to watch the targeted bird once i got the hit--i would always take a screencap, switch out and paste the cap to see if it was a good capture.. restart or quit once i checked it out. upon doing it again, the bird did gain tons of HP because it took many hard hitting turns to take it out afterwards. so the displayed damage did not overflow, but the total hit was treated the same as one number, which did overflow.
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[Futch]

Just passing by to congratulate you Falcon Critical!, I tried it and it worked!

And I never chose Kasumi on my games, It all started because of a stupid fight with my brother wich resulted in me never choosing her to join xD
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Leb]

Futch, it's been pretty much proven now that she can't do more than Killey.

[Futch]

I wasn't congratulating him on that, sorry for being vague.

Im just mesmerized by the trick he discovered by himself the one of "so much damage it ended up healing" stuff (eventough the array's hypotesis confuses me a bit)

I just didn't beleive it myself but I tried it, and heck Valeria did heal the bird alright!
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!