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Proof that Valeria ousts Killey for the maximum damage title!
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:35 am    Post subject: Proof that Valeria ousts Killey for the maximum damage title Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay I've been arguing this point for some time, now lets back it up with facts.

After using the kindness rune trick to max PATK to 999, Killey's setup was as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------

KILLEY SETUP

Double-Strike
Violence

W - friendship

Assuming 1000 patk for ease of calculation, here's the low down.

1000 x 3 = 3000 ( critical hit )
3000 x 2 = 6000 ( enemy sleep )
6000 x 1.5 = 9000 ( double strike )
9000 x 5 = 45000 ( violence )

Since Killey does 2 hits, he does a couple of hits of 22500 ( assuming no defense on opponent ).

----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------

VALERIA SETUP

Falcon
Violence

W - kindness

Same deal applies to damage, assuming 1000 base

1000 x 2 = 2000 ( sleep )
2000 x 5 = 10000 ( violence )
10000 x 5 = 50000 ( falcon rune critical hit )

That's as far as the argument has gone before, and people disbelieve my claims saying the falcon rune's critical attack is only 3x damage. So I ran some tests.

----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------

Valeria lvl 92 ( PATK 351, Fury )

Normal hit - 618
Falcon rune - 1204
Falcon Critical - 3060

3060 / 5 = 620, thus proving Valeria's case and that Killey is knocked off his perch of being the biggest hitter of all the characters.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Have you actually seen this damage with your eyes?

I've seen screenshots made by KFCrispy of suikosource that had Killey dishing out 20000+ per hit (which would be 40000+ for a single "attack").

I have tried Valeria numerous times myself, but I have been unable to get beyond somewhere around 36000 damage, which is still one heck of a huge damage.
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Goldy

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well i had Killey set up the way that KFCrispy of suikosource did and if anyone is more powerful than Killey or even Sheena for that matter i would love to see some screenshots.

Falcon Critical, Try the setup on suikosource for Killey, Level 99, Max Weapon, Double Beat, Double Strike and Fury Runes, Best Armour and Accessories.
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Goldmember wrote:
Well i had Killey set up the way that KFCrispy of suikosource did and if anyone is more powerful than Killey or even Sheena for that matter i would love to see some screenshots.

Falcon Critical, Try the setup on suikosource for Killey, Level 99, Max Weapon, Double Beat, Double Strike and Fury Runes, Best Armour and Accessories.


Weapon sharpness and equipment are not relevant as the kindness rune trick puts PATK to 999 regardless. Plus it was a violence rune not fury :P

SARS - are you sure you got the critical attack of the falcon rune in your testing? I'd play through the game again to prove Valeria's worth, but to take a screenshot I'll need an emulator no? Either that or I can try taking a photo of my TV as it happens...


OKAY I'VE FOUND A FLAW >_<

KFCrispy wrote:
oh lookie here, i found the gamesave. his atk is 558 after max ATK and DEF (in combination with Warrior Rune), 3x Power Ring and Master Garb. so Exertion max raises it to 1116, violence to 5580, critical to 16740, dbl-strike to 25,000. add the sleep penalty and it's 50,000.


With Valeria lacking the extra runeslot for the warrior rune we can't get her PATK over 500 ( i don't think ) meaning Valeria falls down with 999 patk rather than the exertion rune pushing Killey to 1116. His calculations still get it to 50,000 only so I'll have a try still to see how big I can get her to hit.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What if you use the kindness rune trick?
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

KFCrispy managed to surpass 999 patk using the exertion rune's x2 multiplier on 556 patk getting 1116 patk during the course of this battle.

Now this does raise a question however. If the Kindness rune is actually able to ADD 999 patk to the bearer, Valeria could potentially have ~1350 patk but Killey possibly more.

The only thing I can do is try this I guess. I'll test taking a photo of my tv screen tonight and failing that look for an emulator to see if I can prove my name ( Falcon Critical ) to be truly the master of damage.

-- edit --

I have come across something truly bizarre. I BROKE THE DAMAGE LIMIT. I had to do it twice to truly believe myself but it does now seem i've proved it possible.

First off I set Valeria up for max damage like above.




I got violence to activate and got a falcon rune standard 2x damage... 17836 damage.



Now considering the critical is 5x damage, we can calculate the hypothetical damage. 17836 ( i'll call it 18000 for ease of calculation ) halved is 9000. 9000 x 5 = 45000.

I was determined to see this massive number appear before me, however I came across a slight flaw in my plan. I got the perfect conditions and ... see below:



It's hard to tell, but its actually HEALING for 11000 damage. I can back this up by reminding you if that was a killing blow ( and no birds have that much HP ) the bird would be fading out in death animation.

So what happened...

The way I figure, I broke the damage limit. Like the kindness rune trick that gives 999 patk, having surpassed the array size for damage, I have broken into the array for healing.


So how big is this array?

Factoring in my above calculations and knowing an array size has to be on the bit size chart ( 1,2,4,8,16,32,64... ) I would have to hypothesize that the array can handle 32768 damage. This would mean the actual damage done by Valeria is 32768 + 11802 = 44570.

So can we call this conclusive evidence that Valeria is the queen of damage? If you don't believe I broke the damage limit, try it yourself.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Either you broke the damage limit or you found a massochist bird. /rimshot

Anyway, that's some pretty wicked stuff right there, I wasn't even aware that Sheena had been surpassed by Killey, I was still under the impression that womanizing blonde boys were the most dangerous warriors of all time (I thought I was superior.) Have you been trying to figure this one out for a while?
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I had always known that the best "damage makers" included Sheena, Killey and Hai Yo, but Valeria??

I suppose that the pictures are solid prove, but that is one wicked bird, being able to heal itself...

Did it happen immediately after you struck it or after you returned to your position?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is interesting stuff! Kornholio, are you reading this?
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you use Valeria you will be aware of the animation of her 5x damage Falcon Critical attack. Like her unite with Anita, she starts from further back and rushes through the enemy with delayed hits and then further delayed damage. Valeria is almost back in position in the party by the time this damage shows on the screen.

So Killey/Sheena/Hai Yo can use exertion to get beyond 1000 base patk and do massive damage, Valeria however proves this is perhaps not the only combination for max damage.


THEORY

Bob's rabid fang is an awesome weapon, it gives patk x2 and he can still critical from that form for an extra x3. This equates to Valeria's x5 rune damage and therefore Bob should be also capable of this damage.

1000 x 2 = 2000 ( werewolf )
2000 x 2 = 4000 ( sleep )
4000 x 5 = 20000 ( violence )
20000 x 3 = 60000 ( critical )

however... violence rune requires you make the attack in the next round from when you went berserk. with Bob, to get enough damage to use violence he needs to be in human form, and to transform takes an entire turn with no attack, hence rendering it impossible to perform this hit with Bob unless you can get him to take enough damage IN werewolf form. Since his def is also x2 and he heals 50 hp/round in this form it seems impossible.
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Adrian Magicent

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Heh... neat. I'll have to try the Valeria thing myself sometime.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

But how often does Valeria get a critical with the Faclon Rune? I've managed to get it a few times, but no that often. She may be able to claim the top damage spot, but Killey is still a more reliable source of damage. The chance of her criticalling a sleeping enemy while in violence mode are very slim. It's still cool, though.

And about the Bob thing. Would the Servant Attack trigger the Violence status? Doesn't it drain Bob and Bolgan of 1/2 their HP? If you turn Bob into Wolf Bob in Turn 1, then Servant Attack in round 2, would he be a violent were wolf in round 3 able to attack? I'd like to see those numbers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Of course I'm reading this, Ted :)

A few things.

1. That's an amazing find! So this means that healing spells and items are actually incredibly boosted damage spells and items! Mega Medicines actually damage you 33268. Kindness Rain actually damages your entire party 33068. Perhaps if you Gamesharked your MGC to -301 (probably not possible), you could reliably annihilate your party with a single Kindness Rain spell, if for some god-forsaken reason you wanted to do that. Well, maybe to just to video capture the results.

2. How does this oust Killey as max damage inflictor? kfcrispy's <a href="http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=947">quoted number for his damage was 45171. </a>

3. While that find of breaking the damage array is very interesting, that kind of hurts the usefulness. Killey doesn't break the damage array because his attack animation is split, so damage is actually inflicted on the enemy.

4. Now your forum name makes sense. Been trying to prove this for a while? :)
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Does it matter if its "practical?" Because, honestly, it isn't practical at all getting anyone up that advanced, nor is it necessary. There is no million hitpoint monstrosity anywhere to tackle for whom you would need an insane attack like this. It is, entirely, a matter of prestige, something I can applaud Falcon Critcal for trying to accomplish on behalf of his favorite character.

And yes, his name does make a lot of sense now, doesn't it :)
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Falcon Critical

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hee hee - yes I've been fighting for recognition on this one for ages lol.

Hmm so Killey still out damages me by about 1K... I will put that down to enemy defense, he's hitting a yellow bird outside the Merc Fortress, I'm hitting a red one outside Greenhill late in the game :P

--- edit ---
Also just noticed that Killey's max damage of 45171 also used the stat stone trick to max out his stats! No maxed stats here ^_^
------------

While I agree this is not going to work in a boss battle, ( the amount of setup is insane ) that's not really a defense for Killey "oh he's more practical in a normal battle" - is that what this topic is about?

The only thing Killey really has over Valeria in normal battle terms is 3 runeslots. Do I have to pull maths on this again? All I'm trying to say, is that it annoys me how everyone chooses Kasumi then never uses her. You pass up one of the strongest warriors in the game to get 2 extra characters you dont use... early.

So has everyone seen the Falcon Critical attack for themselves? Go try it for once, you'll find Valeria is still a powerhouse like GS1 but now really fast.
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