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Kooluk and Kanakan
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Kooluk and Kanakan Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just a sudden question that popped into my mind...

Kooluk's location in 4 lies in between the Island Nations and the Scarlet Moon Empire... In terms of location, that is also where Kanakan is supposed to be...

Is it possible that the Kooluk nation collapsed and it became Kanakan?? After all, it sounds similar...
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I postulated a similar theory regarding Kooluk, except it became the Southland, a collection of small groups of people.

The one big flaw here is that Kanakan, if I recall correctly, is mentioned in Suikoden IV by Elenor Silverberg.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Could Kanakan be part of Kooluk, or is the Kingdom of Kooluk actually be VERY small, given that the Scarlet Moon was supposedly very close to the Island Nations.

If that is so, where on earth do they get their huge army?? (Come to think of it, where did Highland get their army?? they were so darn miniature, yet their army was so much bigger than the Jowston army, taht had more than 10 times their land space...)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's not strictly true. It sure appears that way within the games but when you look at a clearly marked map the area of Highland as compared to Jowston is not that much smaller. The ratio is more 60:40 in favour of Jowston.

The Kooluk Empire stretches as far as we know, from the southern regions of the Scarlet Moon Empire, down to the Island Nations. We have no idea on it's eastern or western borders in actuality. As Kooluk is an Empire and has an aggresive expansionist policy, it is probably a moderate sized nation, not as large as Scarlet Moon but not extremely small either.

Kanakan may be a part of Kooluk, but nothing suggests it. We just know it's south. 'South' is pretty vauge as there's no guarantee that Kooluk controls all land south of Scarlet Moon.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know a great deal of the Falenian coastline was made up by SARS himself, but what about the mainland coastline? That he has on the map outside the forum's war game as part of the geography guide. Do we know if that is an accurate map of the continent? If so, we should have a vague idea of the size of Kooluk. The other question of course is, is our location of Kanakan accurate or is it a guestimation? I -do- think that it's considered part of the Island Nations though, since didn't Amada say he was from Kanakan at one point and from the Island Nations at another?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Harukaze wrote:
I -do- think that it's considered part of the Island Nations though, since didn't Amada say he was from Kanakan at one point and from the Island Nations at another?


I don't recall this myself, but a speed play-through of Suikoden II should reveal it if it's right.

The mainland coastline, especially that south of Toran is around 90% conjecture. The distance between the southern tip of Kooluk (at El Eal) and Toran is also conjecture. The Geography map is also highly made up of conjecture and finally, Kanakan's location is conjecture. As is Kooluk's location, although that is highly educated conjecture.

To summarise: I like the word 'conjecture'.

In all truthfulness, the only bits on the Geography map that aren't conjecture are the parts we've seen on official maps for each of the four games to date, everything else is educated guesswork.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are you sure though? I thought I remembered hearing that he pulled the full map of this continent from one of the Japanese-only publications. I could be mistaken though, I don't honestly know what he has access to that we don't. I'm only working on the memory of what I thought I heard. I had thought that the map he uses for the site [as opposed to the forum] was accurate.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

While I'd be unwise to say I could confirm 100% that I'm right, I am fairly certain that I am. As far as I know, even the location of Zexen and the Grasslands on the continent is technically conjecture. (Albeit the only logical place for it fit, really) I've asked Sars Ad-Minh about various sections from time to time and the answer has always been that it's conjecture.

As I've said, of course, it's educated guesswork so I have no argument with it. Even then, Kooluk doesn't look to be incredibly small on the Geography map, which is what prompted this discussion of map legitmacy.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Did the Scarlet Moon Empire exist now? I seem to remember that it was some kind of land grant from Harmonia to the Rugner family or something like that. I haven't played 1 and 2 but I remember this from somewhere. Perhaps Kooluk became the Scarlet Moon Empire and since usually and Empire is a union of nations (usually done forcefully) maybe Kooluk and the Southlands are the nations that comprise the Scarlet Moon Empire.

For some reason my computer is buggin out and I can't check suikosource for to see if my thought about Scarlet Moon was corret or will make me look like a bafoon. I'm hoping for bafoon.
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Scarlet Moon Emoire became the Toran Republic in SUikoden 1. I don't think Koolok was part of the original SME when it became independent from Harmonia since Klift battled Harmonia and secured independence from Lorimar. If Lorimar was independent, I doubt Harmonia wen around them to expand farther south.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Scarlet Moon Empire was very much independent from Kooluk, and vice versa, during Suikoden IV. The existance of the Empire is, in fact, a major plot point in the game, particularly in the reason the whole series of events was set in motion. I won't explain further since it'd spoil things unnecessarily [not that spoilers are disallowed still... okay, mostly because I'm too lazy to get into it ^_^], but suffice it to say, the Empire existed during this time frame.

As for their original independence, it happened pretty early on. It wasn't a land grant like Highlands, it was that there was a revolt of some sort in the capital city, the city which later came to be known as Gregminster. It was after this that Harmonia moved its capital far to the north, to Crystal Valley.

And wataru, not really to contradict you, but we do know that Harmonia wasn't opposed to having regions unconnected with each other. The Toran region and the region we now know as Harmonia were both part of Harmonia, but it seems like the Dunan Monarchy was never a part of Harmonia, and existed between the two. Sounds like a perilous place to be, but there is nothing in the history that suggests war between them, oddly. So, in theory, they could have gone further south than Lorimar, but I do think you're right in that they did not. Kooluk doesn't sound like it was formerly of Harmonia; I think we would have been told by now if it was.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kooluk could not have been the Scarlet Moon Empire due to the fact that it was originally part of Harmonia and then gained liberation from Harmonia due to the actions of the Kranach Rugner. Recall that Gregminster was once the Holy City of Rupanda which was once the capital of Harmonia, which was once the land of Aronia if memory serves me correctly. Therefore, the Scarlet Moon Empire had a vast history behind it and never was Kooluk mentioned in the slightest.

The fact that the Scarlet Moon Empire derived from Harmonian territoy makes the possibility that Kooluk was once SME impossible. Also, wasn't Graham Cray pursued by hunters from the Scarlet Moon Empire, or wasn't he Vice-Strategist or something for SME? I forget, but I believe it was one of the two. This would suggest that the SME existed at that time. And If the Scarlet Moon Empire existed at that time and were sending hunters after him or he was employed as a Vice-Strategist for them and Kooluk obviously existed at that time, then it's unlikely that Kooluk was a part of the SME, as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, Harukaze, I noticed that too. Well, to get from Harmonia proper to the Toran region is a quick jaunt by boat (is any informtion given on the strength of Harmonia's navy?), so It wouldn't be too out of the question for them to sail there and conquer it, leaving Dunan alone. In order for Harmonia to rule Kooluk, they would have to march their troops through a sovereign nation, and I doubt Klift would have tolerated that. Then again, we don't know if Kooluk is south of Lorimar or Great Forest. If they were there, it sould be no problem for Harmonia. Hmmmm.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

wataru14 wrote:
Yeah, Harukaze, I noticed that too. Well, to get from Harmonia proper to the Toran region is a quick jaunt by boat (is any informtion given on the strength of Harmonia's navy?), so It wouldn't be too out of the question for them to sail there and conquer it, leaving Dunan alone. In order for Harmonia to rule Kooluk, they would have to march their troops through a sovereign nation, and I doubt Klift would have tolerated that. Then again, we don't know if Kooluk is south of Lorimar or Great Forest. If they were there, it sould be no problem for Harmonia. Hmmmm.


Couldn't Harmonia just sail past the Scarlet Moon Empire and hit Kooluk from the east [if they have an easy coast] or the south? If they can sail around Dunan to get to the Toran Region, they can probably sail just a little further, too.
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Sophita

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do we we ven know if Kooluk still exists, post Suikoden IV? I (granted) have absolutely nothing to back this up, but considering it is such a non-entity in the later games I kind of figured that Kooluk had crumbled and become parts of the Southlands, the Island Nations, and the Scarlet Moon Empire/Toran Republic.

As far as Amada being from Kanakan: I know he is from the Island Nations because it's on Richmond's profile for him, but I don't remember whether or not he is from Kanakan. I've got a save near where one can recruit him; I'll have to check it tonight
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