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The Unofficial Jeane Thread No. infinity (SPOILERS)
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: The Unofficial Jeane Thread No. infinity (SPOILERS) Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How many threads have we got about Jeane already? I added this one as I felt that many of the others did not match what I believe.

I recalled from somewhere (can't remember if it was suikosource or here...) that Jeane did not have a true rune. At first, it did not seem possible. However, after playing through 3 and 4, I came up with a new theory.

Has anyone ever wondered why on earth did the place Jeane with a bunch of cats following her in the "now loading" screen? Here is the reason... She, too, is a cat.

I know, you would be "turned off" just about now, but I have solid prove.

Remember Bang, who is in the same room as her in 4? He was allergic to Nay-Kobolds. Thus, I assumed that he was allergic to cats too. Despite there not being any Nay-Kobolds near him, he was still having an allergy. And, he did mention in a letter that looking at Jeane made him feel cold, thus it does link.

Next, do you remember in 3, If you use Kororu (is that right? the name of the dog...) to talk to Jeane, she would say something about him finding out about her "true identity". How did he know? It is because he is a dog, and can sniff out cats easily. Thus, Jeane, knowing this, asked him to keep her identity a secret as it would certain shock many guys to knowing that they had a crush on a cat :D ...

Another thing... How do you explain the fact that she was already a grown woman in 4, and could still live for another 168 years without a true rune? That is easy. She had nine lives, like a cat is supposed to have.

This is my theory on Jeane. Hope this does not get locked up with the others as I really put effort into writing this theory.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think someone's come up with this theory before [it sounds familiar, anyway], but I've never heard the Bang connection there. That... hm. I don't think I have a counter for that, even though I argued against it the last time the theory came up.

Any evidence from GS1 or 2, on either side of the theory?
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Benit149

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have this gut feeling that Jeane and Viki topics should become stickies like the Yuber/Pesmerga thread if there's several topics in existence for them already...

Well it's a probabale theory. I'm not sure why a CAT, of all things, would live so long. If Konami wanted to hint that Jeane was a cat, a sensible thing to do would be to have her recruited in Nay instead of Na Nal.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

If Konami wanted to hint that Jeane was a cat, a sensible thing to do would be to have her recruited in Nay instead of Na Nal.


Not necessarily... In the past we have recruited many people having no relation to their locations. For example, Gengen was recruited at the merc fort, Francesca was recruited in Razril while looking for Cray. Made no sense why she was there. Or why Sheena would be in the city state in the first place, Killey in south window while looking for a Sindar ruins in Muse, or why... erm... I think you get the point.

Anyway, location isn't important.

Edit: 1 and 2 did not give much information on Jeane, especially 1, since she was supposed to be just another runemistress.
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, for a second let's forget about the theory that Jeane is really man people with the same face and name.

Assuming Jeane is one person, there have been many theories about Jeane being a metaphysical creature of various types (since it is confirmed she has no True Rune) including a vampire, a succubus and a siren. As for the cats, one popular superstition about cats is that they are said to be able to sense and see magical or spiritual creatures for what they are and are close to the "other side." If Jeane was one of those supernatural creatures, especially since they are all known for being charismatic, having cats follow her around would not be out of the question. However, if she was a cat-person, I doubt Koroku would be so friendly towards her. My mom has a veritable zoo of dogs and cats and the only time they are friendly is when A) they were raised together from infancy, or one of the female dogs becomes maternal and adopts one of the cats as her child. Otherwise they fight or simply avoid each other.

As for Bang, I think his comment about being cold when he sees Jeane is because she wears next to nothing and he's thinking, "God she must be cold" and feels cold himself. Kinda like seeing a picture of a hamburger can make you hungry. Sympathy chills. Then again, maybe if she is a spiritual creature, he is getting a chill from her presence.

Pleasant dreams.
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Seraphym

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know that this is slightly off topic, but I do have a theory about Viki. Okay, just try to follow me, here.

It is impossible to go from one point to another in space without taking up time, correct? Well, in Viki's case you can travel in space instantly. (Loading time for the console is ignored.) This is a discontinuity in time-space. Unless, of course someone found a way to break the continuum and thus allow for space travel without time being involved. Unfortunately, though the instant while traveling a person who is traveling would either have to be two places at the same time, or nowhere. This fact would ultimately disprove the law of the conservation of mass. Therefore the universe would collapse within this moment.

I believe that Viki or Viki's people may have found away around this and is able to travel not only through space, but time as well. This could be why she is in all of the games thusfar: she can travel through time.

That's just my theory, though. Heh... yeah.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, to be honest... we know that Viki travels through time. That's confirmed, pretty much, by Konami. She has memories of what she's done 'previously' (in her memory). That isn't the mystery surrounding Viki. The mystery of Viki is where she originally came from and the whole Young Viki/Older Viki confusion.

Meanwhile, it's Jeane who we don't have a reason for turning up in every Suikoden game so far for.

Nice point about the law of the conservation of mass, however.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually (still being of topic...) if Viki can travel travel thru time it would make sense that her older self might run into her younger self, like how in back to the future McFly meets his dad in college... so it isn't really a confusion.

Also, she did mention in a letter that she has seen the ghost ship that Ted was on before... So it is highly possible she is not of this world, BUT the same one the Fog Ship Guide was from...

I didn't make a thread about this as I thought many had already came up with the same theory.

BTW I like the Christian pic John Layfield
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Seraphym

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

See, I figured that she wasn't from this world, because her, erm, technology is too advanced to be of this world. I figured she is probably from another planet. She may not necissarily be from another planet, though, but from another dimension. I think that's why the Fog Ship was here: it was from another dimension.

As my physics teacher explained to me: a shadow is a two dimenstional "object" that is just where the light is blocked by a three dimenstional object. Thus, a three dimensional object is the "shadow" of a four dimensional object. The Fog Ship, therefore, may merely be a "shadow" of something from one dimension higher, in this case, probably the fourth dimension. Viki could also be a shadow of something from the fourth dimension. Note how shadows disappear when conditions change, well fourth dimension Viki could have realized how to harness this power and can physically be two "places" at once.

If you take this theory and combine it with my prior theory, then she could see her younger self in this dimension. She could have traveled in time at two seperate times and come into this dimension at the same time here, but at different times in her dimension.

Man, I really hope I'm somewhat right about any of this. Heck, even the crazy theories, even if they don't apply to Viki.

P.S. I really hope I didn't lose anyone in all this stuff. It just happens to be almost 7:00 in the morning here and I think too much.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:40 am    Post subject: The science of the whole situation. Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For starters, the fourth dimension of the universe is time. Says the Calabi yau manifold.

Secondly, you have to take into consideration the meaning of the law of conservation of mass. It says nothing can *move* faster than light, but things can still travel faster than light.

Electrons are proof of this, they preform whats called a 'qauntum leap' when they get too close to there nucleas, they instantaneously travel from one point to the other without moving in the space between.

And thirdly time travel isn't possible because matter cannot be created or destroyed. Lets say a 60 kilogram person travels backwards through time 5 years, his 60 kilogram of mass would be added to the universe during the time he stayed in the past, even if he whent before he was born, because the matter that makes his 60 kg self up is at that point probably dirt or food for animals or some other such thing.... Sorry if I lost any of you, I spend alot of time thinking of these things.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Firstly... welcome mofo... I see you are new...

Second, suikoden does not follow any law of Physics so er, don't think any of this will be relevent.

Come to think of it, I wonder if there are any geniuses in the suikoden world NOT relating to being a general/strategist or alchemistry... They could use an Isaac Newton-type character in the 108 stars...
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RedCydranth

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Adlai was considered a genius and he didn't strategize. He was more of the Da Vinci type. Also some could argue Marlowe's intelligence.

As for the time/space deal. This IS a game and metaphysics really don't take factor here, although I do agree with you Mofo if it were our reality.

I haven't played IV enough so i don't know if Jeanne is a battle usable character, but you never know what rune she has in I-III. For all we know she could be like Viki and have a Blinking Rune. And being a more magical person, knows not to use it in front of people. She obviously is more of a loner since she travels so much. And she has a level head about her unlike the ditzy older Viki (Young Viki showed much more intelligence than older).

I like the cat theory, but Nay-Kobolds have never been said to live that much longer than kobolds or humans. However, I think she may be of some elvish decent. If she was half elvish, it may explain her longer lifespan. Also factor in that she MAY have a blinking rune and you have a woman who will live longer (timeline wise) than any human or elf for that matter.

Time travel is not the cure for death. As Viki will eventually die, when it will be, no-one knows. But lets say she if she never time traveled her life span would be 60 years. She will still die when her body has aged 60 years, dispite whatever time she goes in. If she were born in year 0 (for easy time sake) and she was 10 when she first time traveled (to suikoden III) say she spent 5 years in that time and went back to the moment when she left for suiko III and continued her life from there (going instantly from 10 to 15 in that instant) Now she lives another 5 there until Suiko I takes place (making her 20) Now for funs sake halfway through Suiko I she warps ahead to Suiko II and does that entire games time (lets say 2 years) and then warps back to the moment she left Suiko I. (making her jump 2 years of age from 20 - 22) finishes up suiko I adding another 3 years (making her 25). She then warps back in time and does Suiko IV's timeline adding another 3 years (28 years old now). After this she remembers seeing herself as a young child in Suiko III and must (for the universes sake, no paradoxes allowed!) travel back to Suiko III's time so that she can be present when her child form comes to that time period. Now, she has to re-live those 5 years making her 33 by suiko III's end. Lets say she travels to the year 267 and she lives the rest of her days and dies in the year 300. She was not 300 years old, her life may have spanned various time periods from the beginning of Suiko IV's time (before her actual birth) to 300, but she was only 60 actual years old when she died.

With that long thing said, If Jeanne does have a blinking rune, like Viki, she is NOT over 100 years old, she's still like 30. Her life has just spanned a great amount of time, but she wasn't present for every moment of those years.

Did you understand and get all that? :? :? :? :? :?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

First off you can't attribute Jeanne's appearance in all the games to being half-elven. Even full blooded elves in Suikoden only live 100 years, and with nearly 200 years spanning the 4 games - I would go as far as saying that's impossible.

I'm of the theory that Viki will eventually go completely mental and teleport herself into the end of her existence. Jeanne with a blinking rune? I doubt it.

Jeanne in battle you asked? She's very powerful with lightning and good with some others, however very slow to cast anything and very very fragile. With only one row in GS4 she's borderline liability to you IMO. That being said her stuck rune that makes enemies take hits for her is very useful with her low defense, and there is one other reason a lot of people like her...

MY OPINION?

Officially I don't have one. Trying to decypher her is like trying to figure out Yuber/Pesmerga... I enjoy seeing them in games as returning characters but don't believe their story is even decided yet.
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Scarlet Assassin

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How are you all ignoring the stated proof that it is not one Jeane? Honestly, when asked abour Raura, one of the creators said "Yes Raura is THAT Jeane's childhood friend." NOTE THE THAT JEANE! If there were only one jeane it would be pointless to include the word that. Also, it was stated that everyone in Jeane's family looks and sounds the same. Are you following me? Each Jeane has been a different one (except maybe in SUikoden 1 and 2) I do not understand how everyone can ignore the EXACT words of the friggin creator.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Because on the flipside of that argument, the creator could have used that language to be deliberately vague. There are different nuances in Japanese than there are in English as well, which confuses the issue more.

Yes, I do believe each Jeane [with the possible except of GS1 and GS2] is different. But it isn't impossible for her to be one Jeane throughout. Just -highly- unlikely.
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