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Is there/was there ever any religion in Suikoden?
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Jetlogs




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden - Qlon had a temple
Suikoden 2 - Tinto had a church, also mentioned that Killey's village worships a Crimson Bird
Suikoden 3 - Zexen had a church and worships a goddess, Karayans and Alma Kinans believe in spirits. Sindar also had a temple
Suikoden 4 - Keen seems to be a priest of some sorts. Obel also had a temple

the other evidences are not that concrete, namely the temples. But the suiko world sure does have a religion
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can't believe I'm the only person remembering these things...

In Suikoden 1 when the Scarlet Moon soldier mentions "there is no god in these modern times" that was a total line of crap in the American version. In the original Japanese version of Suikoden 1 he says nothing about god at all...that was just thrown in by the translators(s). In fact, any mention of god in the games is usually just a translator adding it in. Another example is at the end of Suikoden 3 if you bring the Zexen Knights with Chris at the ceremonial site. One of the knights will mention having the power to kill "Satan" himself...even though there is no Satan in Suikoden.

There is one mention of "God" though...in the Zexen church. At some point in the game (either before or after killing Neclord, or perhaps some other time in the game) one of the NPCs in or around the church mentions God. This may or may not be more translator crap, I'll have to get confirmation from a Japanese source. This may or may not be true, since there is a picture (or statue?) of a female (presumably a goddess) in the church's main hall.

Also, the Zexen church is from Harmonia. The priestly type at the church mentions this.

And in Suikoden 3 we are presented with another religion-based translator flub. Saint Loa is actually supposed to be called Goddess Loa. Why the translator would call a goddess a saint is beyond me, but the same translator also translated Jack as Jacques, Bard Attack as Bird Attack, Ged as Geddoe, and many many MANY other questionable translations were made. I'd go so far as to say Suikoden 3 has the worst translation of any PS2 game I've played so far.

As mentioned earlier, the kobold family in Chapter 1 of Suikoden Gaiden 1 was in possession of a holy kobold figurine. Two playing children dropped it, and Nash kept it. He then stabbed a vampire in the chest with it (Ayana was her name?), destroying her. The figureine was of a kobold, suggesting that there is a kobold-specific religion or set of spiritual beliefs that kobolds have.

As for the Sindar temples...they're not temples, they're ruins. The Sindar leave them wherever they go. The Sindar may be considered religious only for thier insane devotion to True Runes. They seem to have a more intimate knowledge of True Runes than anyone else.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do you think most "religious" spreed in Suikoden is Harmonia based? when you look at it from types of belifes, we have our "churchy" religions, or ones you think of right away when you hear the word. then you have older ones that blur the line between ancestor worsphip and "real religion", then nature based faiths.

do the kobolds naturaly have a religion or was that from outside influance?
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kobold religion? No one knows. The Gaidens weren't made by the same people that did the normal series, so I'm not sure if kobolds were even meant to have a specific religion by Murayama. But the religion must have been more than "ancestor worship" since the kobolds that dropped it were actually very well dressed and looked rather wealthy.

As for Harmonia's influence on world religions we're also left with no clues. Mostly because we know nothing of Harmonia. Suikoden 2 gave us a small taste, Suikoden 3 gave us even more, and then Suikoden 4 went so far away from Harmonia we only got a single mention of it's name.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, Harmonia did hold large portions of territory and wielded great influence...so I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could manipulate religion, no?
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I believe there are a lot of religions in the suiko world. Like spirit worship of the grasslands, to whatever religion is being practiced in harmonia. And the religion of Zexen
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The church in Tino in Suikoden II had a priest from Harmonia, which as said before, is a theocracy. Also, the Karayans believed in the spirits of the Earth, and do not worship a goddess, which I read above. It was even a small arguement in Suikoden III when the Zexens and Grasslanders meet on the battlefield in Chris' first chapter. Sana says something about being greatful that the spirits allowed the meeting, and Salome responds that the Zexens are thankful to their Goddess, and all the knights nod their heads.

Spoilers for Suikoden V in black text below.

Nagarea (or Nagaar int he Japanese version) is a nation to the south of Falena, which is a theocracy more religious than Harmonia. It was mentioned that Eresh wears the clothes of a 40-year old priest from Nagarea.

End of Spoilers.

Other things to note:

- There are countless graves seen in the Suikoden world. One which comes to mind is at the end of the ruins in Obel in Suikoden IV under the tree. Also on graves you'll see crosses sometimes.

- The whole concept of Vampires is somewhat religious.

- (spoilers for the end of Suikoden IV) Lazlo is sent away in a spirit boat, which is practiced by some cultures around the world as a religious way of sending people to the next world.

- Many rune's powers and mythology come from some religions and old mythology from Greece and Egypt, and other ancient societies.

Other than all that, I can't think of anything. Sorry if some of this was mentioned before.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Graves aren't necessary a sign of a religion. It shows probably a certain kind of faith in a sould, because they might treat the remains of the dead with respect and that might incline some kind of believe in a life after the one on earth, but that isn't necessarily so. But I have admit they treat the corpses at least with some care. The same goes with Vampires. Stories about Vampires aren't new and are not necessarily bounded to a religion too. I believe the was the mystery of vampires and dead, but still walking and hungry people, which was made to a theological thing, because they must be evil and therefore against god or the gods, not the religion made them up.
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Linnaeus

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Who knows, though. The concept of Vampires could be a religious idea in the Suiko-World. There has to be a reason why Neclord was in the Church in Tinto in Suikoden II. That's why I said "somewhat religious".

It seems that Harmonia's religion may have been originated by the ancient Kingdom of Aronia, and was spread throughout the Northern Continent. There really aren't many signs of Harmonian religion in the Island Nations or on the Southern Continent. Most of the religion seen in the Southern Continent seems to come from the Sindar race and the ancient Old Armes Kingdom, not to mention runes.

As long as we're on the topic of Runes, I believe that some people in the Suiko-World worship the True Runes. Other people see them as objects, and some people believe in their God or Goddess, and think of the Runes as powerful objects that should not be worshipped. For instance, the Alma Kinan villagers knew about the seal for the True Water Rune, but still believed in their spirits. Many times, a person wielding a True Rune is being worshipped, and sometimes they are just respected and not seen as a God...Kind of like in Judaism where Jesus is respected as a prophet, but not worshipped as a God.

(Spoilers for Suikoden V, highlight to read.): In Suikoden V, Queen Arshtat mentions that she is not a God, and when the Sun Rune takes control of her mind, she says that she "simply must become a God." (End of Spoilers) Perhaps the True Runes are in fact the almighty beings of the Suiko-World. There is even a legend of how the world was created along with the True Runes and all the other runes, which makes me want to believe that Harmonia's religion does in fact worship True Runes, since it seems Harmonia has a great deal of interest in them.

Also, it seems the Zexens in Suikoden III did not truly believe in the True Runes, and it seems that the Grasslanders thought it was just a myth, too, since they both had their own religions. After all this, it seems like Suikoden III was sort of a religious war after all. Chris even mentions to the Alma Kinan villagers that she feels their religious beliefs are rubbish, and Yun (or someone..can't remember who) said that they don't agree with Zexen's rituals either, and that they should agree to disagree, but still respect one another.

So, yes, there is definately religion, but it seems it varies of what the religions believe on different continents, and from different cultures. True Runes also affect the idea of religion in the Suiko-World.
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think of religion as anything that explains the driving forces in life, not neccessarily as something that is worshiped. An example lies in Buddhism where Buddha is more of a profit that a worshipped god, the real faith is supposed to lie within oneself. I mean the runes explain the source for people, elements that make our world, and even things non-tangible such as atonement or change. These are forces that exist even in our world, and while not so much your typical form of religion, the ideas are at least partially religious in themselves.

Though the runes being controlled by humans is a good argument, as it is abundantly stated, they often use the humans to acomplish their own will when the time arises, and as I read in one of the speculations (I believe) that the actions carries out by the host may have only been manipulations by the rune but with no visible sign of it.

Finally, other than the runes, I think characters such as Leknaat, Jeane, or Zerase seem almost godlike in the way that they all seem to know some 'higher truth' that the rest of the world can't see. I think the tenkai's are almost prophet-like also, seeing as how they are the first of the "36 stars of heaven" and have their lives intertwined with those of the runes, Leknaat, and Jeane. Maybe a sort of unknowing prophet?
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It depends how the creators of the game spin it, but if they follow the legend, the legend states that the Tenkai si chosen by the stars to be the leader of an army when the world is at crisis to end. Therefore, the Tenkai is somewhat of a prophet, but an unknowing one.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well we already know there is another country beside Harmonia that is a theocracy. guess religion is prevalent in the suikoden world.

As for the creation myth its still that:a myth. No one for sure knows that the true runes were created in the beginning of time. For all we know the runes themselves maybe a Sindarian creation
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'll say that the Suikoden world does have some sort of religion.

There are many references pointing to the existence of some religions in the Suikoden world. Many of these are found in game. In Suikoden I there was the Qlon temple. Some monks definitely live inside the temple. Probably giving some hints that there is some sort of religion in the Toran Republic. In Suikoden II, as others have mentioned, there is a church in Tinto. It may be a church or not but by the looks of the building, it definitely looks more like a church than any other building. Therefore, there might also be an existing religion in Tinto. In Suikoden III, there were a lot of proofs that a religion exists in the Suikoden world. The Karayans believe in the "spirits," and the Zexen have their own goddess in St. Loa. The sacrifice of the Alma Kinan clan also was done in sort of a "religious" way. To the lesser extent, the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia itself might have a religion as well. They have bishops and priests, though these positions are more of thought as political and military positions than religious positions. Regardless, the name itself might hint at having its own religion. It wouldn't be named Holy Kingdom of Harmonia if not for its holiness (which is mostly connected with religion) isn't it?

Also, I might add that Killey's clan worships some sort of "Crimson Bird," does it not? That obviously points to some kind of religion existing, at least in Killey's clan. Ayda as well might hint at having another religion. Remember her talking about the "great spirits"? According to her, it is where everyone goes after life.

There are a lot of hints pointing to the existence of many religions in Suikoden. So most probably, there are religions in the Suikoden world.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wex Daarus wrote:
I think of religion as anything that explains the driving forces in life, not neccessarily as something that is worshiped. An example lies in Buddhism where Buddha is more of a profit that a worshipped god, the real faith is supposed to lie within oneself. I mean the runes explain the source for people, elements that make our world, and even things non-tangible such as atonement or change. These are forces that exist even in our world, and while not so much your typical form of religion, the ideas are at least partially religious in themselves.



true.

even given the hierarchy of a Harmonian episcopacy there's a chance they could still worship the True Runes and Hikusaak is their prophet or equivalent messiah. He did overcome death...
Maybe that church in Tinto is dedicated to an acetic or a saint and the people worship that saint specifically, how very Catholic right? Worshipping the bones of St. Martin.
Religion is definately established in Suikoden, they just haven't gone into great detail (yet) no doubt because it either hasn't fit into their story yet or they don't want to offend anyone with blatant allusions to real world religions.
Once we get into the nit and gritty of Harmonia we'll see some religion.

I haven't played SIII in like two years but I feel like *spoiler* Luc *spoiler* made some fine religious statements along his path towards un making the world.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

granpaturtle wrote:
He did overcome death...


He did? I never knew about that. Was there any proof or converation which told that Hikusaak overcame death? Or maybe you mistook him for Mazus or Crowley, whom I thought were the only ones who overcame death?
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