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Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead
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Himuro

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's hard for me accept, but there you have it.

I've talked to a few people in the industry. At one point in time, there was a Suikoden title for the wii, as told to me that a friend that works at Konami. I have the theory it was Suikoden VI, but, as we all know, Konami canned a few games being developed for the wii a few years back. I think the Suikoden title was probably one of them.

Seeing as how Tierkreis sold decently, I don't see any reason for Konami to NOT continue the Tierkries line.

Tierkreis has been released world-wide for quite some time, and we've all had the time to let it sink in regarding Suikoden's future. After Tierkreis do any of you want new Suikoden titles in the same vein? Or will you be neglecting the series if we get another Tierkreis?
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Xelinis




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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Himuro, you're being a drama queen. Unless Konami comes out and says that the Suikoden series is over, you shouldn't be making these claims. I don't care what your "friend" at Konami says.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
I've talked to a few people in the industry. At one point in time, there was a Suikoden title for the wii, as told to me that a friend that works at Konami.

My friend who works for Santa Claus told me they were making it for the PS4.
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The_Sun_Rune




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

my goodness...
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We all know that's possible, but I still think it is too early to say this.
[quote="Xelinis":35s9l7au]Himuro, you're being a drama queen. Unless Konami comes out and says that the Suikoden series is over, you shouldn't be making these claims. I don't care what your "friend" at Konami says.

If we look what happened with Breath of Fire series, one could tell the series was dead before any anoucements. After all, very few expected a new BoF game after Dragon Quarter. Especially after the long time without any news.

Someone with more experience in watching the game industry can tell us. How long would take from one game to the announcement of the next? If nothing follows Tierkreis in a reasonable time, we should have a level of certain that nothing is coming at all.

Anyway, sucessful games tend to come back, I was surprised to see Lufia's announcement, even if nothing comes hope will still live, although I'll not be one to wait for it for too long.
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TruePerception

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For those of you taking this to heart, Himuro has been known in the past to spread falacies about the Suikoden series based on "a friend who works at Konami". His word alone should not cause too much worry.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't consider a series dead until the only activity I see is ports and re-ports and re-re-ports to every present generation console and/or handheld console, and then to the successors of said consoles. But that's just me.
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Hawksaber




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The RPG genre has changed a lot. I don't think Suikoden will completely die off, but I do think the original story that all of us old fans came to know and love has probably been killed off.

I will be very surprised to see a story that continues on from where III left off.
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Goldy

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TruePerception is right!
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LTM




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Rezard":1am3q8rc]We all know that's possible, but I still think it is too early to say this.
[quote="Xelinis":1am3q8rc]Himuro, you're being a drama queen. Unless Konami comes out and says that the Suikoden series is over, you shouldn't be making these claims. I don't care what your "friend" at Konami says.

If we look what happened with Breath of Fire series, one could tell the series was dead before any anoucements. After all, very few expected a new BoF game after Dragon Quarter. Especially after the long time without any news.

Someone with more experience in watching the game industry can tell us. How long would take from one game to the announcement of the next? If nothing follows Tierkreis in a reasonable time, we should have a level of certain that nothing is coming at all.

Anyway, sucessful games tend to come back, I was surprised to see Lufia's announcement, even if nothing comes hope will still live, although I'll not be one to wait for it for too long.

Do not confuse Capcom with Konami. Has Konami ever truly let a series die off for a decade or more? Even a niche one? No. Castlevania has been doing pretty badly and they kept it going, even put Hideo Kojima behind the next one. Capcom behaves MUCH differently, as you can see with how begrudged Inafune is about that company. They took ten years to come out with another SF and STILL 60% of capcom is against continuing Street Fighter, despite the mass hype and success.

Lufia is owned by Square, they are closer to being like Konami. They never let a series die and will always in some form give support here and there. They may go in the wrong direction sometimes, but they still keep it going.

I'd like to remind everyone that before Tierkreis hit, the naysayers all uttered the same things. Sure, Tiekreis isn't Suikoden II but its still series support. Its hard to say where Konami will go really. I mean look at Castlevania. After 64 and Circle of the Moon, they made Aria of Sorrow. It didn't look too good for CV at that point like they would just keep doing handheld Symphony-based games and then lament came out. They continued the handheld and the console games at the same time. Suikoden is a very very niche series...I think a Suikoden VI will happen on the PS3 most likely, and I could see two different Suiko series going on at the same time. Konami has confirmed there are TWO development teams for Suikoden after all, so we might see Tierkreis 2 and VI happen simeltaneously.

But if the series dies? Can't really say as I blame them. Its never been cost-productive. A game like Suikoden can't keep up in the modern day. Hell, most Japanese rpgs CAN'T. They just aren't selling the way western titles are, which is depressing I dislike western games. But the majority of gamers these days don't care about heavily anime-inspired niche jrpgs. The 90s, everything was a niche. The PS2 turned gaming into the mainstream and ever since jrpgs have been falling out. They sell so poorly Square-Enix owns most of them now or produces them...and even thats not enough. Japan doesn't even hold HALF of the marketshare right now with all of its combined. The economy is bad, we're in a recession which means so is Japan. Guess what that means? Budget cuts. Laying people off, cutting hours...it happens. And canceling projects that won't make enough profit to warrant the effort put into it. The 90s was a golden, economic boom. We'll never see anything like that again in our life times. And Konami puts most of its funding into DDR and Metal Gear, produces Silent Hill nowadays so they don't spend money on development costs and well...they have no reason to put enough effort into Suikoden games anymore. I could still see one come out, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't. There is no gurantee they can sell it well enough even in their own country let alone here. Tierkreis was their last ditch effort to put Suiko into mainstream. Did it work? Well...I don't think so, but we'll see how Konami feels.
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Aloyalgamer




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

LTM is pretty much right (not quoting his paragraphs above lol) most people who buy a video game will see some sort of advertisement first, like a game being at an expo (ex. God of War) and will be in awe over graphics and gameplay and will probably buy that game just off of those features. Has Suikoden ever have any decent advertising at all? Compared to Square games? I think not. If anything, Final Fantasy is more dead than Suikoden, since Square is beating FF7 like a dead horse. I'm afraid that the age of games heavy in storyline and morals may be over soon. Haven't seen any games like the Suikoden series or the Mother series on the market as of late. It's all about graphics, rendering and high frame-rate now, not so much story-telling. I'm telling you, if Konami intends to make some profit off of Suikoden, they better up their marketing and advertising. They don't have to stress out on graphics much, since Suikoden never really aimed to out-shine other RPG's in that department, which is what I love about the series. It's not about the graphics, that's probably one of the most irrelevant qualities in a game. If the Gameplay, Music and Storyline are great, then I'd play it at the least. I mean come on, LoZ WindWaker was one of the best Zelda's ever, but people wined about the Cell-Shaded graphics and how it looked "childish". I thought that was one of the best qualities in that game to be honest.

However, if Suikoden DID go mainstream like FF7 did with that series, then I'd guess we'd all be complaining about how the series has become overrated and cliché'd compared to it's predecessors, much like the rivaling fan-bases of Final Fantasy 6 and 7.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I doubt Konami is planning to can the franchise based on the fact that they continue to create Suikoden merchandise.
They're slated release a new Suikoden soundtrack along with a 2010 calendar this month, and the released a "Konami the Best" version of the PSP Suikoden 1 & 2 last month.

Also, new Suikoden comics have been released, which seems to follow the Suikoden 3 comics format.

I don't think a dead francise will continue to produce merchandise like this, so I assume Konami hasn't abandoned the series yet.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="LTM":1jqeo960]Do not confuse Capcom with Konami. Has Konami ever truly let a series die off for a decade or more? Even a niche one? No. Castlevania has been doing pretty badly and they kept it going, even put Hideo Kojima behind the next one. Capcom behaves MUCH differently, as you can see with how begrudged Inafune is about that company. They took ten years to come out with another SF and STILL 60% of capcom is against continuing Street Fighter, despite the mass hype and success.

It is true, but I wasnt arguing about how Konami treats its games, but how a game can die silently, without any warnings. We dont need a official pronouncement to know a franchise is over. That was my point.

Even if Konami normally doesnt just drop niche titles, let me ask you: What's with this silence? Nobody says anything, nobody knows anything, if a game was being produced wouldnt be some anoucement by now? If they are producing a suikoden game shouldnt some info get leaked somehow? With so much indifference no wonder people speculate it is dead.

Anyway, I dont know what will happen in the future, but I think they created Tierkreis as some kind of test, to see how fans would accept a game on a handheld outside the suiko world and also if the franchise still has the potencial to draw new fans. Since it is only one year after this "test", I think it is too soon to talk about cancelation or anything of the sort.

They should analise Tierkreis results this year, plan something and announce it next year. Does this sound as something to expect? When should they tell us what they are planning? Of course, I dont have any kind of knowlegde of the gaming world or about how Konami works, that's why I asked someone with more experience on the market to tell us what to expect.

[quote="Vextor":1jqeo960]I doubt Konami is planning to can the franchise based on the fact that they continue to create Suikoden merchandise. That's good to know, but I still wonder when they are going to tell us what they are planning. How long they will keep us on the dark? Back to top
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TruePerception

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rezard, there wouldn't necessarily be info out. Look at the last several games (with the exception of Tierkreis, which was intended to grab new fans, and still wasn't talked about that early of release, compared to, say, Final Fantasy.). They weren't really advertised (umm, not quite advertised, really) all that long before release.

Loyal, the funny thing is, I never heard any advertisement for any of the games except V and Tierkreis. IV I foung out about while looking for games at GameCrazy, and put it on preorder. Tactics I just happened to see at Fry's Electronics, and snatched up. The ad for Suikoden V was on or in (I forget which) the box for Tactics, and so I looked it up (and found this place). Tierkreis is the only one I found out about as soon as info was leaked, and that was on DueFiumi (more out of chance and it being my homepage than from reaction time for the news). Suikoden has never been a terribly well advertised series...
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Aloyalgamer":1jybpp7n]LTM is pretty much right (not quoting his paragraphs above lol) most people who buy a video game will see some sort of advertisement first, like a game being at an expo (ex. God of War) and will be in awe over graphics and gameplay and will probably buy that game just off of those features. Has Suikoden ever have any decent advertising at all? Compared to Square games? I think not. If anything, Final Fantasy is more dead than Suikoden, since Square is beating FF7 like a dead horse. I'm afraid that the age of games heavy in storyline and morals may be over soon. Haven't seen any games like the Suikoden series or the Mother series on the market as of late. It's all about graphics, rendering and high frame-rate now, not so much story-telling. I'm telling you, if Konami intends to make some profit off of Suikoden, they better up their marketing and advertising. They don't have to stress out on graphics much, since Suikoden never really aimed to out-shine other RPG's in that department, which is what I love about the series. It's not about the graphics, that's probably one of the most irrelevant qualities in a game. If the Gameplay, Music and Storyline are great, then I'd play it at the least. I mean come on, LoZ WindWaker was one of the best Zelda's ever, but people wined about the Cell-Shaded graphics and how it looked "childish". I thought that was one of the best qualities in that game to be honest.


Haven't every Sukoden since 3 on (I didn't pay attention to Suikodens I and II) been announced at the various gaming expos? And a lot of people like to compare the advertising for the Suikoden series to most other Square games, which, I consider, kinda ridiculous. The Final Fantasy series is world famous series, the Suikoden series is not. We shouldn't expect Square caliber advertising for a little niche series like Suikoden. The advertisement for niche titles like Suikoden can only be really done by their own site, ads on the dying medium known as game magazines (which Suikoden V did have), and reports done by the various gaming sites (such as this site) around the internet.

I think the Suikoden series is unlucky that its being ran by Konami, a company that seems to have no idea what it's doing for the current generation in a sea of poorly managed Japanese gaming companies. The Silent Hill series has sold less and less, Castlevania needs a reboot to hopefully jump start the series, DDR is no longer the phenomenon it used to be, and their other music games (which could have beaten Guitar Hero and Rock Band to the punch) is virtually unknown outside of Japan. Metal Gear is about the only series for Konami which has done well, hence we're getting two new Metal Gear games, but a company can't survive on one series alone.

A company like Gust can keep on producing Atelier games, Atlus is still supporting niche titles like Persona or SMT, Tales games get pumped out more than Final Fantasy games now a days, and I'm sure that none of these games had advertising as much as Final Fantasy (outside of Japan). Yet, they're all (for the most part) being brought over here....Konami needs to be smarter, thats all.

And yes, production costs for current generation games are more expensive than past generation, but if a developer like Gust can produce the next Ar Tonelico for the PS3 (and me, I'd consider the Ar Tonelico series a lot smaller than the Suikoden series), then surely a much larger company such as Konami can afford to try their FLAGSHIP RPG series on the next generation.

And on my final point, the GRAPHICS argument has been used since the original Playstation days and never seem to quite die. Graphics are important in a game. Your little bit about Wind Waker showed that graphics are important even to you. Graphics are important to RPG gamers, whether they admit it (or realize it) or not. Graphics help create the feeling and the mood, and help tell a story better.

Woo, that was a lot to write!
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