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(MAJOR SPOILER) finished the game - One King and Chronicles
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nass




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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: (MAJOR SPOILER) finished the game - One King and Chronicles Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hello guys, first post here at suikox forum.

I have finished the game about two days ago, and lemme say i miss a lot of things such as full-scale war, weapons level or the runes themselves. However i must admit that i kinda like the story, not as much as S2 though. I played all S1,S2,S3,S4,S5,Rhapsodia/tactic, and now Tierkreis.

Now, about the One King, somewhere before you fight this expresionless bad-ass, you were presented by a tablet of stars(?) where all the names of stars except the tenkai star got burned. And after you beat this so called One-King, there is an animation, the Hero (our tenkai) somehow know that One King is the tenkai from previous tablet of stars, and they talked about when there is only one star, there will be only one path to guide the future of the world. I though that One king is actually tenkai from another Infinity World, where the tenkai released all mark of the stars (107 other than him) to beat One King, and eventually become One King himself?? I'm not sure myself, Any opinion anyone?

Somehow i remembered a plot like this happened before, it's like FF-X plot, if you defeat the Sin with final summon, eventually that 'final summon' will become Sin itself (like Tidus's father)

Then, about chronicles, the game's plot let us collect twelve false chronicles, but why twelve? any coincidence with the name Tierkreis (A.K.A Zodiac).

If i am not mistaken, Konami said that the original Suikoden world actually exist in one of the Infinity world, that makes me wonder, if one world supposed to have a true cronicle, what is the true chronicle in the S1~S5 world? True Chronicle Rune? :D
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILER) finished the game - One King and Chronic Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="nass":128z86ng]Now, about the One King, somewhere before you fight this expresionless bad-ass, you were presented by a tablet of stars(?) where all the names of stars except the tenkai star got burned. And after you beat this so called One-King, there is an animation, the Hero (our tenkai) somehow know that One King is the tenkai from previous tablet of stars, and they talked about when there is only one star, there will be only one path to guide the future of the world. I though that One king is actually tenkai from another Infinity World, where the tenkai released all mark of the stars (107 other than him) to beat One King, and eventually become One King himself?? I'm not sure myself, Any opinion anyone?
Probably figured out from the other thread already...
...but yes it's true. The One King was originally a Tenkai star and went through trying to get all 108 SoD as well...but opted for the "combine stars into one" method for whatever reason.....and now he's on this quest to get rid of the infinity.

There was this OTHER theory about [spoiler:128z86ng]the One King = Hero's father...but I don't see that being true as I think it's more likely that the Hero's dad was the man that was seen in several of the Chronicle visions and AKA the man Atrie was looking for....
He seems more likely Hero's father rather than the One King[/spoiler:128z86ng] ...but that's what I think about that....

[quote="nass":128z86ng]Then, about chronicles, the game's plot let us collect twelve false chronicles, but why twelve? any coincidence with the name Tierkreis (A.K.A Zodiac).
Though twelve is related to the term 'Tierkreis'
The number 12 has always had a big significance in Asian astrology/folklore/legends/etc. (at least)

I recall...the original Suikoden (I mean the original chinese legend "Legend of the Water Margin") also refers to the significance of this number....(though I'm not sure the details as I've never read the original legend/novel)
Your asking of the significance of "12" is like asking "why is it 108?"

[quote="nass":128z86ng]If i am not mistaken, Konami said that the original Suikoden world actually exist in one of the Infinity world, that makes me wonder, if one world supposed to have a true cronicle, what is the true chronicle in the S1~S5 world? True Chronicle Rune? :D If we ignore the "Mainstream Suikoden isn't related to Tierkreis so there is no stupid book" argument

It's probably still hidden somewhere...cuz as we have seen at the end of Tierkreis [spoiler:128z86ng]Hero gave Zenoa the True Chronicle for safe-keeping...so someone [Leknaat is a likely suspect but at this point....it could be anyone] may be "safe-keeping" the mainstream Suikoden world's True Chronicle...or it's still hidden somewhere...[/spoiler:128z86ng]
But you also have to keep in mine......we haven't traveled everywhere in the "mainstream Suikoden world" yet.

I mean...if Tierkreis didn't take place where it ended up taking place...we might've never seen the True Chronicle...they just conveniently stuck it out in the open for the sake of this game.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In the "bad" ending, the one where you use the combine the stars plan, the game ends with the main character turning into the One King(after killing the previous one) while apologizing to everyone. As I recall, in the normal ending the One King says that he created and destroyed himself(or something to that effect) in a never ending cycle. So it seems reasonable to assume that the One King is born when all the stars are combined, and is reborn when defeated through the same method.

On the subject of what the main Suikoden world's true chronicle is, assuming it is somethign we know of, I can think of thre possibilities. Of course I'm assuming that it isn't a book, as we did see multiple instances of chronicles being other objects like being a staff or a tatoo. Possibility number one would simply be that it is the Circle Rune as that represents order and stability which are certainly things that would be associated with a true chronicle. Possibility number two would be the shield from the story of creation for the same reasons as the Circle Rune. Possibility number three would be both sword and shield from the creation myth. My reasoning for this is that all true runes provide immortaility just like the true chronicle so in theory if they were to come from a true chronicle, they all should not just half of them.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

for this new idea of true chronicle,i think that konami should use it in the new suikodens to use it and help the suikoden players to undertand about the suiko world(it registers everyithing about the world where we play right)
and i want to know who is this person who appeared in tierkries and looks similar to the hero in the beginning of the game, and after getting the final false chronicle,and atrie said before going to the end of the game that a father once lost his son in a gatway can this be the hero??
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="jowy220":3tfml59l]i want to know who is this person who appeared in tierkries and looks similar to the hero in the beginning of the game, and after getting the final false chronicle,and atrie said before going to the end of the game that a father once lost his son in a gatway can this be the hero??
Well that was my theory and that's what I believe at least...

But it's about as true as Lino = Lazlo's dad (Suikoden 4)
aka: It will probably never be proven true or false
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILER) finished the game - One King and Chronic Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Ikano":2rbzwvhn]There was this OTHER theory about [spoiler:2rbzwvhn]the One King = Hero's father...but I don't see that being true as I think it's more likely that the Hero's dad was the man that was seen in several of the Chronicle visions and AKA the man Atrie was looking for....
He seems more likely Hero's father rather than the One King[/spoiler:2rbzwvhn] ...but that's what I think about that....

However, since the False Chronicles allegedly only contained records of their respective original worlds (in which every single Starbearer fell), wouldn't it be safer to assume that none of the people seen in the visions are the same? So the supposedly Hero's father would only be the one from touching the Shining Legacy and there is nothing in there that contradicted him releasing the Marks.

The guy in the very beginning, as the only one who officially shouted; "We'll unleash every mark of the stars!" could very well be the One King incarnation the Hero fought, whether he's the Hero's father or not.
(Though, looking at the artbook, they don't look similar at all.)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILER) finished the game - One King and Chronic Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Scrooge McDuck":juakx2fb]However, since the False Chronicles allegedly only contained records of their respective original worlds (in which every single Starbearer fell), wouldn't it be safer to assume that none of the people seen in the visions are the same? So the supposedly Hero's father would only be the one from touching the Shining Legacy and there is nothing in there that contradicted him releasing the Marks.
Ah...that is a good point....but that makes me wonder about something else...

What if say....for example....the original world of the porpos, (let's call it world ALPHA just for simplicity)....was destroyed by One King then merged into another world, let's say...world BETA....and so when they (world ALPHA) gets merged with world BETA....Alpha's True Chronicle turns into a False chronicle and contains memories of world ALPHA

Now....what if the starbearers of world BETA were also defeated....and, by random chance (cuz it does seem random) the "porpos' kingdom" is the one that gets merged to another world again? Is their now "False Chronicle" (previously ALPHA world's True Chronicle) the one that travels with them on this second merging since it was their Chronicle to begin with?
If so....did it not gain any additional "memories" of BETA world on top of the "memories" of ALPHA world?

Or....if in fact "BETA" world's True Chronicle is what travels with the porpos on this "second merging"....then wouldn't it need to have at least absorbed some of the "ALPHA" world's False Chronicle's memories or end up not absorbing any of the "ALPHA" world's False Chronicle's memory...and may end up having no record of the porpos if the porpos were transferred into their world immediately before it's destruction? (and then we'd have a Chronicle that belongs to the porpos....but awkwardly may not have memories of the porpos....)

What exactly does happen to False Chronicles that were previously in a world when said world disappears? Assuming this "cycle" has been going on for a while....I can't believe that none of the previously disappeared worlds didn't have any False Chronicles already--as well as their own True Chronicle

........hold on.....I think I'm getting a headache..........@_@

[quote="Scrooge McDuck":juakx2fb](Though, looking at the artbook, they don't look similar at all.) I second that....though I don't think the One King was ever unmasked in the game? ((unless he was unmasked in the "bad ending" *hasn't tried/seen the "bad ending" with my own eyes yet*<_<; )) so it might be possible they were merely concept sketches that weren't meant to be used
--like the countless concept arts of Atrie with different types of armor...that was never used in-game...

(Though I myself hope the art of the unmasked One King in the art book wasn't just a mere idea and that he is actually supposed to be like that... ;-; )
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, the most plausible assumption, I think, is as follows:
  • The area surviving from the ALPHA is not arbitrarily chosen
    But rather the specific location in which ALPHA's True Chronicle is held. It is not by random chance that Cragbark, which always holds the Wraith Soul, was the one that gets merged into Hero's world. Ditto Naineneis.
    [/*:m:dzeyzfdt]
  • The True Chronicle of BETA will contain memory of the Porpos
    Because that's how ALPHA world could merge into BETA in the first place: the alteration of the True Chronicle. The people from the old world lose their memory because they adhere to what the New Chronicle dictates.
    [/*:m:dzeyzfdt]
  • If, by any chance, the ALPHA Chronicle gets transferred along to GAMMA, it would not contain the memory of BETA
    For the BETA Chronicle is just that: memory of the old world. It actually has no business with BETA. And, the BETA Chronicle would be somewhere nearby anyway (adhering point number one). This one is too far a conjecture to my liking, though, and we can't really be sure if a Chronicle could survive a second merge.[/*:m:dzeyzfdt]


Ah, the Bad Ending doesn't show the One King's face as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Scrooge McDuck":2ruznmti]However, since the False Chronicles allegedly only contained records of their respective original worlds (in which every single Starbearer fell), wouldn't it be safer to assume that none of the people seen in the visions are the same? So the supposedly Hero's father would only be the one from touching the Shining Legacy and there is nothing in there that contradicted him releasing the Marks.

The guy in the very beginning, as the only one who officially shouted; "We'll unleash every mark of the stars!" could very well be the One King incarnation the Hero fought, whether he's the Hero's father or not.
(Though, looking at the artbook, they don't look similar at all.)

He says that they'll unleash every mark of the star, but that isn't the same thing as merging the stars. At the point that he said that there were only four stars left anyways as all the others had been killed by the One King. I highly doubt that four stars would provide enough power to kill the One King or that you could manage to perform the merger in the middle of a fight.

[quote="Scrooge McDuck":2ruznmti]Well, the most plausible assumption, I think, is as follows:
  • The area surviving from the ALPHA is not arbitrarily chosen
    But rather the specific location in which ALPHA's True Chronicle is held. It is not by random chance that Cragbark, which always holds the Wraith Soul, was the one that gets merged into Hero's world. Ditto Naineneis.
    [/*:m:2ruznmti]
  • The True Chronicle of BETA will contain memory of the Porpos
    Because that's how ALPHA world could merge into BETA in the first place: the alteration of the True Chronicle. The people from the old world lose their memory because they adhere to what the New Chronicle dictates.
    [/*:m:2ruznmti]
  • If, by any chance, the ALPHA Chronicle gets transferred along to GAMMA, it would not contain the memory of BETA
    For the BETA Chronicle is just that: memory of the old world. It actually has no business with BETA. And, the BETA Chronicle would be somewhere nearby anyway (adhering point number one). This one is too far a conjecture to my liking, though, and we can't really be sure if a Chronicle could survive a second merge.[/*:m:2ruznmti]


Ah, the Bad Ending doesn't show the One King's face as well.
I'd say that the second one is the most likely.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Ranadiel":3u315fg3]
I'd say that the second one is the most likely.

I wrote those as a whole assumption, however, and didn't mean for the points to be exclusive from each other.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Ranadiel":2uvxl814]
He says that they'll unleash every mark of the star, but that isn't the same thing as merging the stars. At the point that he said that there were only four stars left anyways as all the others had been killed by the One King. I highly doubt that four stars would provide enough power to kill the One King or that you could manage to perform the merger in the middle of a fight.
I don't think we can assume either way if this person in that first vision is the same person that was shown in the prologue where there was only 4 stars left
Actually....I think we're confusing/mixing up all the visions here.....

The "Shining Legacy" vision is the one that has the vision with the four starbearers (that look identical to Hero, Marica, Jale, and Liu) that played in the prologue of the game........the vision where he goes "Give me the power of the Marks of the Stars" or whatever is from the Chronicle found in Grayridge...

If we follow Scrooge McDuck's theory that only ONE of the False Chronicles holds memories of Hero's True father (and of course assume that Hero's True father is NOT the One King)........Then the vision that most likely shows his father is the one tied to the Shining Legacy.....since the "HQ" appeared along with the "Shining Legacy" and towards the end of the game Rajim (the Citro Village elder if you forget names easily) hinted that they found Hero as a baby right in the very spot the HQ appeared....


I personally still think there is some way/loophole that the "world's memory" of his father was able to have transferred to more than one Chronicle somehow though... (whether it was by merging of True Chronicle & False Chronicle memories at the moment a world is destroyed...or possibility his Father travelled to other world's for a while --like Cougar, Marica, and Atrie occassionally did...or something like Belemuel and Ordovik...whom were previously defeated and strangely resurrected in another world...or maybe something else....)

But it's not an officially explained system......so all we can throw around is theories...
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Ikano":1hbk58m2]The "Shining Legacy" vision is the one that has the vision with the four starbearers (that look identical to Hero, Marica, Jale, and Liu) that played in the prologue of the game........the vision where he goes "Give me the power of the Marks of the Stars" or whatever is from the Chronicle found in Grayridge...


A little side tidbit: Ouragan (presumably, Ouragan?, I suppose) is also there in the opening video, propped against the right hand wall.

To the topic at hand, I would have to agree with Ranadiel, since less than 108 can't bring about the desired effect (or undesired, depending how you look at it).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think the story is lack of many explaination and conclusion in the end.. So many questions are unanswered.. Left us assuming about many things.. I'm still wondering around though, maybe I had missed something in the game...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Here's my two-bits;

I think in the prologue, the ones that look like Hero, Liu, Jale, Marica, Cougar (against a pillar) and apparently Ouragan were simply their counterparts from another world (remember that there can be many alternate versions of people in other worlds, there can also be different people being the stars or totally different worlds with no one the same). So, they all probably died. Of course, that would mean their world was merged with another, but what? Was it merged with the world in Tierkreis? Or another? ...Did we ever see this vision from a chronicle? Or was it just the prologue? I don't remember.

But the one in the vision of the Shining LEgacy I think must be Hero's father. The ones from other chronicles must have been other-world versions of him. Either that, or he became Tenkai in like 12 worlds and lost in each of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Kiante":730iogz9]Here's my two-bits;

I think in the prologue, the ones that look like Hero, Liu, Jale, Marica, Cougar (against a pillar) and apparently Ouragan were simply their counterparts from another world (remember that there can be many alternate versions of people in other worlds, there can also be different people being the stars or totally different worlds with no one the same). So, they all probably died. Of course, that would mean their world was merged with another, but what? Was it merged with the world in Tierkreis? Or another? ...Did we ever see this vision from a chronicle? Or was it just the prologue? I don't remember.

But the one in the vision of the Shining LEgacy I think must be Hero's father. The ones from other chronicles must have been other-world versions of him. Either that, or he became Tenkai in like 12 worlds and lost in each of them.


The clip we saw in the prologue WAS the vision from the Shining Legacy (first book)
....it's just the game didn't want to replay the whole clip again (cuz it would've felt repetitive to us--the players--)
so it just did a fast-forward...when the in-game characters see it

But I do believe the "Hero-lookalike" depicted in the Shining Legacy vision/Prologue IS MOST likely his father...
.....it's the look-alike in several other books that has me wondering if they're possibly him or not...
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