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Konami wants questions from us
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Gunloc




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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Good selection Vextor. Thanks for providing us with this opportunity.

I don't know if should hope for any direct answers for the two questions of mine that you selected. I hope with all the mentions of the concern over Tierkreis' setting, that Konami will get the idea that this is a point of contention for many fans of the series.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Vextor":2ozwl6ex]
20. Why was Suikoden III not released in Europe (PAL) and is there ever going to be a chance for European gamers to play the game?



Hello Vex, I just want to had something about Suikoden III. Konami never released it in PAL for obscure reason, but, at least in France, an editor translate and released the manga version of Suikoden III.

OK, the manga isn't the game, but, for french people (and readers :wink: ), the suikoden III's huge scenario is available, in a another media, but at least available.

I don't know if the manga went out on the other PAL country.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd heard that Suikoden III was never released in PAL regions because it would've required translating the entire script into many different languages, which would've cost more than it would've been worth (in their opinion). Can't remember where I heard this, so not sure if it's real or not, but it somewhat makes sense (not sure why they changed their minds for later entries though).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've got a question 21 for them.

21: Are you guys retarded or are you punishing your fanbase for not liking 4 enough? Here's the features of your new game from what I've read around:

+ Agonizing voice acting.
+ No Runes.
+ No True Runes.
+ Final Fantasy-esque MP system.
+ Teenage protagonist.
+ No canon to tie into the established plot.
+ No world to add on to the established world.
+ Generic Dragon Quest / Final Fantasy 'Save The World!' plotline.
+ No war battles.
+ No real political strife.
+ Typical jRPG 3-4 character combat while offering twenty-fold that in amount of fightable characters.

The fact that you guys couldn't be arsed to put together a real story for this and fell back upon the jRPG standard of "I wanna save the world with my highschool buddies" tells me everything I need to know about the game and what I can expect from the future of your writing staff. I hope it fails in both Japan and the US to the degree that you can't possibly recoup your losses and the series is allowed to die with dignity instead of becoming just another brand name clusterfuck. It's the least you deserve for screwing over the original story designer and refusing to tell the fans of the series why, only to shovel IV and spin-offs onto us while stringing us along with unnecessarily long wait times for the next installment in the series. Three years the fans have waited and have been given this.

G'bye, Konami.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="poorguy171":3tp9j0o1]I'd heard that Suikoden III was never released in PAL regions because it would've required translating the entire script into many different languages, which would've cost more than it would've been worth (in their opinion). Can't remember where I heard this, so not sure if it's real or not, but it somewhat makes sense (not sure why they changed their minds for later entries though).


The official reasoning never went past "localisation issues" by both Konami Japan and the Europe branch and it was promptly dropped and followed up with almost a flawless release of Tactics and IV that were also shipped in higher numbers than previous series. That being said, most every game released on PAL is on a delayed release simply because they prioritise Europe instead of priotising language so there have always been multiple languages on PAL discs (English - French - Spanish - German are rather staple) so language on S3 wouldn't have been an issue, and I'm pretty sure the PAL S2 release came with English - French and Spanish on it.
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Elc

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It may just be me, but insulting them might (just might) have the affect that they won't answer any questions at all and conclude that the Suikoden fanbase isn't worth their time. We don't want to alienate Konami when they are actively reaching out.

About the wait times, I would rather it took several years between games instead of popping a game out each year or so just so Suikoden can become just another brand name with diluted games.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I for one almost find question #17 insulting as a fan. Yeah it could have been a logical marketing move for Konami to change the name of the series 13 years ago before the first game came out, but changing the Suikoden name now would be just disgusting.

How would that help things at this point exactly? So someone who never tried any Suikoden games for the past decade because the games had a weird name would give the series a chance then? and for those who didn't play Suikoden early on in their life because they didn't like the name, why don't you find something else to blame for missing out on such a great series for years?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To your question about the name change, yes I believe the game would sell better with a more mare marketable name in the US, the same way that every consumable product in the country does. What the consumer sees when they are looking at products is incredibly important and a hard to understand, pronounce and connect-any-mental-association-with name is a huge and unnecessary hurdle. I'm actually shocked that the american development team didn't catch it way back when but I think fixing it would be a great start towards easing some of the western resistance to the series.

I'm sorry that you would be insulted by the name change but Suikoden fans need to realize the reason these games are made is to make money not to satisfy your definition of what makes a Suikoden game. Now, as fans, we all hope that what makes money is also what we enjoy in the games. But the games haven't sold at an extremely high level and if Konami is going to keep producing the games, they need to tweak, test, survey and figure out how to increase sales. I'd rather they start with the brand name and other marketing 101 principles before they tinker with gameplay and story standards but that's just one guys opinion.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wasn't asking a question and I had learned enough about marketing principals over the years. No matter how weird or unmarketable a title may be, it's idiotic to consider changing a brand name that's been established for well over a decade, not to mention the disrespect to all the fans for doing that. So for someone to want to do that as a fan or someone in charge at this point, it certainly wouldn't be truly motivated by better marketing, but rather a total lack of faith in the quality of the product or just personal issues with the name.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="jjrrs"]I wasn't asking a question and I had learned enough about marketing principals over the years. No matter how weird or unmarketable a title may be, it's idiotic to consider changing a brand name that's been established for well over a decade, not to mention the disrespect to all the fans for doing that. So for someone to want to do that as a fan or someone in charge at this point, it certainly wouldn't be truly motivated by better marketing, but rather a total lack of faith in the quality of the product or just personal issues with the name.[/quote]


Agree to disagree. My point is that changing the name would be a preferred way to market to the people that haven't considered purchasing the game without compromising anything besides the box. Remember, not enough people are buying these games so the challenge is to find ways to get new customers without alienating the existing ones. Correcting a branding mistake which never should have made it out of focus groups is preferable to stopping production on the series or eliminating continuity in story or gameplay.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have to disagree, changing a name doesn't change anything becasue Konami simply doesn't advertise enough in the US markets, and the name wouldn't be hard to pronounce if they said it themselves correctly in commercials they actually air.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's the overall quality of a product that keeps a series strong, rpg franchises that's been around just as long as Suikoden gets even less attention when they are no longer good like breath of fire, wild arms, and the saga games, no matter what the name is. Yes there was a point for changing the series' name 13 years ago for marketing which is much more diminished now, but that's not being agreed or disagreed by me.

Just like you said, changing the name to try to attract those that never gave the game a chance because of the Suikoden title may make a few extra bucks, but to do that just to have a chance to gain those kind of players is insulting to the loyal fans, and yes, that would very much alienate me and many other fans if Suikoden is no longer called Suikoden all of a sudden.

Also what you said about
Quote:
Correcting a branding mistake which never should have made it out of focus groups is preferable to stopping production on the series or eliminating continuity in story or gameplay.
is what I have a problem with. So the name fans loved for this long was a mistake that would have been corrected if you were in charge? and to you or those who don't have respect for the Suikoden name, the games themselves have so little impact or are such low quality products that stopping production or eliminating the series would still happen 13 years later, just because the games' unconventional name? Yeah, I find that offensive.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Do fans really love the name so much that changing it in order to gain sales without compromising other core aspects of the series would be an insult? Why? I'll never understand the mentality of underdog fans that will resist any change to their beloved game, show, etc. all the way until its canceled, then whine that enough people didn't appreciate it. Like it or not, everything is a commodity and if you don't abide by the basic principles of sales, you lose.

I love the Suikoden series and have since its inception and I don't want it to go away any more than I want it to get morphed into some generic crappy rpg that is low quality. But its time to be realistic. Something has to change or the series dies. Of all the changes that could be made (and that I think need to be made), marketing and sales promotion is at the top of the list (because I think the games themselves are great). And if you want to market a good product, the next step is to identify how to do that most effectively. Unfortunately, the name is not consumer friendly which means many consumers won't try it. Does that make them lame? Who cares. It makes them not buy the game which means the games (and name) you love stops being made. That's a stance that is stubborn, short sited and ultimately doomed to fail. How does that make you a true fan of Suikoden.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Since when are things so bad that Suikoden have to scoop up any fans they can just to not get eliminated? Things have been the same for over a decade, nothing is getting worst, and things are not getting much better because the game is what it is, so why is some sort of desperate marketing plan on the top of the list exactly?

Suikoden is strong in japan because that's where the target market is, being just a Konami brand that's not MGS, DDS, or Castlevania, it simply will not be like those series so I don't blame there not being a huge promotional budget outside of japan for it. And as nice as it would be if Suikoden did get the same type of attention and hype as most square games, I will admit that Suikoden may not deserve it since the series is never as graphically & technically developed as many of those games that were in the works for 3-5 years, most of those square games are not nearly as good but it does take more effort all around so it gets recognition for that. It would not be profitable for Konami to sink so much money and efforts in promotion or marketing just to keep up, so there's no point for that in north america & europe.

Until there's some sort of major overhaul at konami and all of a sudden they decide to focus way more on rpg development and sales, which will never happen, nothing is going to change when it comes to Suikoden getting more attention even from their own producers, nor should it because there's nothing wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Konami wants questions from us Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="sdballer":wehojpib]Do fans really love the name so much that changing it in order to gain sales without compromising other core aspects of the series would be an insult? Why? I'll never understand the mentality of underdog fans that will resist any change to their beloved game, show, etc. all the way until its canceled, then whine that enough people didn't appreciate it. Like it or not, everything is a commodity and if you don't abide by the basic principles of sales, you lose.


What's the difference between a Japanese name like "Suikoden" and games like Xenosaga which include German subtitles for each installment? To the discriminating American consumer, which is how the argument comes across, they are both two foreign and difficult to pronounce languages.

Quote:
I love the Suikoden series and have since its inception and I don't want it to go away any more than I want it to get morphed into some generic crappy rpg that is low quality. But its time to be realistic. Something has to change or the series dies.


It's somewhat of a bad example, but when the last Star Trek series was put on the air, it debuted with the title "Enterprise" and no "Star Trek" to be found anywhere in the title. It didn't perform to well in the ratings and, by the third season, it was retitled "Star Trek: Enterprise." It didn't really help as the network really wanted it off their schedule.

Quote:
Of all the changes that could be made (and that I think need to be made), marketing and sales promotion is at the top of the list (because I think the games themselves are great). And if you want to market a good product, the next step is to identify how to do that most effectively. Unfortunately, the name is not consumer friendly which means many consumers won't try it.


You're right, changes need to be made to the marketing and promotion of the series and, I guess, just slapping the Suikoden logo onto a page wouldn't do a whole hell of a lot to get people to buy the game. The thing is, "Suikoden" is a more unique name than something boring or generic like "Stars of Destiny" or "Saga of the True Runes." If you look at just the title, "Final Fantasy" isn't that great of a title, it's pretty dull, actually. But because of the power of marketing, it is perhaps one of the most well known series. A good marketing campaign could do similar good for Suikoden. Suikoden doesn't need to sell out in order to become successful, it just need to become a more visible entity on the market.

Quote:
How does that make you a true fan of Suikoden.


I have always hated the "true fan" thing as people only use it to try and force their point of view and put down those who have a difference of opinion. To put it simply, there is no such thing as a "true fan" since you are either a fan of something or not. I have bought each of the Suikoden games and enjoy them, that is all that is required to make me a fan of the series. I may not agree with it, but I can respect that you have different ideas of what it takes for Suikoden to be more successful, but please do not insult the rest of us like that again.
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