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Possible future True Runes
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Urn

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Possible future True Runes Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

First and foremost, I would like to credit Wraith over at suikosource.com for coming up with this idea. Yes, it is Wraith's idea, but I want to bring the thread here to get everyone else's opinions on what True Rune that they may create for a future Suikoden game and see there reasons for why it should exist and how it could be influential in a game plot. I hope another thread hasn't been made of the same purpose. So, without further explanation, here's my True Rune possibility.

The Rune of Redemption and Deliverance a.k.a. Rune of Salvation

This would be the True Rune representing the absolution which mortals seek to achieve through their deeds. This True Rune seeks recovery or preservation from loss or danger. It also embodies saving an entity from the evils present within all things. It also represents rebirth, conversion, and penance. This counteracts the mortal sins of the world.

The usefulness of this True Rune would come in spells representing recovery. Through this True Rune their is purgatory which fuctions as a transition phase for the spirit..possibly where all souls of the Suikoden World go.

Redemption phase of this True Rune represents the path of the individual in finding themselves through a transformation of his or her mental state. This is done through the process of purging of one's inner evil. This purging of evil will occur through various events the bearer must go through while battling with his or her inner self causing the bearer great turmoil. Bearer may have to live with murdering someone very close.

Deliverance is achieved when the bearer has overcome his own demise or through achieving a state beyond life and death. The bearer may die, giving his or her life for a cause and then be revived through the power of the True Rune. Sort of like the idea that death is only the beginning. This 'death' would occur in an event during the game. I believe it would be interesting to actually see the main character die as a turning point in the game.

I can see this True Rune being used in the setting of Falena. Sort of used in the main characters efforts at a form of Crusade to liberate those shackled. The bearer would seek redemption for killing those during his or her benevolent Crusade. I can see this working well within nations such as Falena or Harmonia. Harmonia definitely could be the setting for a hug holy war.

So, those are my ideas. What does anyone else think?
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Exile

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

All I'll really add to this is most true runes not of elemental nature seem to have some sort of dual nature to them. Ie. Life and Death, Atonement and Forgiveness and so forth. There will probably be more heroes with True Runes that force them to make difficult decisions and put their friends at risk in some way forcing those around them into peril.

Perhaps they'll delve into a look at a more curative than destructive rune this next chance they get. Something more akin to the Bright Shield rather than the RoP or Soul Eater.

Anything more specific than that would be a wild shot in the dark.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I actually believe that even the True Elemental Runes have an inherent duality. My whole take on every True Rune is that they are tools meant to embody a greater notion inherent to the universe. My whole idea on the future possibility of a True Rune revolves around the need for a True Rune that doesn't center on the bearer being cursed eventhough True Runes obviously have negative effects on their bearer's future in some shape or form. I think a curative rune could bring a twist to the plot format.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think a Rune of the Sun or something like it would be interesting. It could embody the nurturing and destructive powers of the sun. One possible feature of a game that'd include this for the Tenkai star could be an open-air base, with a lot of plantlife and agriculturally centered and all.

There also could be some kind of rune that symbolizes both the Civilized and Wild portions of the human mind, possibly a rune of balance that splits the protagonist into two halves?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The last part of your post, Marshmallow, sounds almost like what Nash has going for him in the fact that when he goes into one of his crazy rage-like states he can't distinguish from friend or foe. Or so I have read.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Looks like it's popular to dream up of True Runes that have severe curses to the bearer. I think that a curse is something more quieter like suffering for the expense of others to be safe, like what McDohl does with the Soul Eater. Add immortality to the equation, and you have everlasting internal agony. There could be other curses, like the Rune of Punishment and how it eats away at you every time you use it, or the Blue Moon Rune where you have to conquer its destructive nature in order to gain compassion for others suffering the same thing, or an elemental rune going out of control like the True Fire or True Water Runes.

I had made a thread dealing with inventing True Runes, and it quickly fell apart when I realized the most popular curse involved having wild temper tantrums all the time, a la Beast Rune. I'm afraid that the point to the curse was missed. There were a couple of possible True Runes made that were good, like the Veil Rune going on in Arcana's 'Suikoden: Pro Patria Mori' RP, which governs deception and truth. Overall, though, inventing True Runes is tricky if you don't know the theory and facts like the back of your hand. Even the one I made up is in question now, but I'll post it anyway. It's gone through many revisions, and this is my current version.

Melody Rune

This rune governs sound and silence, specifically through music. Music brings tranquility and unity to those who would otherwise be divided. Phonology runes, Jongeuler Runes and Badeaux's special Listening Runes would come from this rune. The Melody Rune allows one to hear the hearts of others, even animals, and the bearer would be a talented musician.

The duality involves sound and silence, where silence is still and unanimous, while sound is always changing. I haven't smoothed out the Silence and Sound phases yet, as this is a very recent change, but the Silence phase would be more cursed than the Sound phase. Perhaps the bearer would be mute (hah! a real reason for a mute hero/ine! :lol:) and would have memories of the silent world that Luc showed us in S3, but in response the bearer can play instruments with the best of them. If anyone has any suggestions about the two phases, I'd like to hear them.

The four spells would be unlocked every time you recruit 27 characters per spell, and 4 x 27 = 108. It would be reminescient to building up an orchestra, and the more characters you gain, the more symphonies you can do. It's a strange allusion to war, I know, but I AM talking about music here. :)

The four spells themselves would be as follows:

1. Debut Song
2. Raging Rhapsody
3. Church Choir
4. Final Movement

An excellent plot moment for the Melody Rune would be like in Suikoden 3: having two countries going neck and neck with each other, while a third country waits for the two to weaken each other before invading. Then when all seems lost, our mute hero/ine stands up and plays an instrument (for example, the flute), sending his/her message to the troubled countries to stand together against a common enemy. I don't know which three countries would be involved, but something other than having Harmonia as the aggressor would be nice for a change.
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Last edited by Benit149 on Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I like your idea Benit, sounds really intriguing. Perhaps one of the phases would be not being able to stop listening to the noises. Like you would hear everything so loudly that it would drive the user to insanity or something like that. The mute would be sueful too, but I think it would be right to have it be during the first stage because the hero/ine doesn't have the place to talk from. Great Idea!

Flora Rune
Reason: Basically the rune that allows plants to exist on the world. Doesn't need to eat, just drink and be in the sun. Retains human body with plant characteristics.
Drawback: Must be touching the soil at any given time. Means no boating unless your in a patch of soil on the boat. Means no stone castles. Means a soil bed.
Magics
-Photosynthesize: Regain some health
-Seed of Death: Drains health from one enemy
-Herbal Magic: Amplifies any item use for 3 turns on all characters
-Cloud of Spores: Hurts all except user(550dmg all)
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

what the hell? what happend to the orginal "make a rune thread"?

anway it would be ironic if the sound rune made the bearer blind, or somthing.

I'd put in some, but trust me I am deathly afraid of messing up, missunderstading and making a fool of myself. so insted I wish to save my ideas for -my own needs-

the "The Rune of Redemption and Deliverance a.k.a. Rune of Salvation " seems to me like its a poser rune. I don't know. where RoP was more of an "outward" rune, this one seems more internalized, but transcending oneself is always important.

I still think somthing that is, about sacrifice would be cool, you compinsate one power for another, or to gain somthing you must lose somthing dear. I guess destroying things/people would make it grow. so lets say the owner was once on one side of his/her beloved country, then he fights aginst it, it grows s/he grows. but at a horrble loss. Those who survie will hate the owner, because of the trechery, again more loss, but what is some meaningless little friends compaired to power and gaining hearts deseire.

in time you can learn what truly is important. this dosent work as a True Rune in the suikoverse. elsewhere yes.

or the ye ole, "light type elements that trashes stuff", no name, nothing yet, its just "holy desturction". again I can make it work, not here though.
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Urn

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A poser rune? LOL. I think you need to understand what redemption and deliverance is all about. Yes, they are very internalized ideas which are very personal to the individual. But, redemption and deliverance also involves a wide range of individuals beside the individual him or herself. Sacrificing oneself for the good of others in order to attain redemption and deliverance can also help to attain salvation for others.

Besides, all True Rune bearers go through internal strife. The Rune of Punishment ate away at the bearer's life-force and you say that's an outward rune. If anything, the Rune of Punishment definitely was internalized. Bearers of True Runes must learn to sacrifice their own personal needs for the good of others. I just wonder how the notion of the Rune of Salvation seems to be a poser. Could you enlighten me of the reasons?
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

nay nay nya forget it, its just I've seen, when people make up runes 'that are close to an existing one" they get horrbly grilled. I want to be on the other side of that argument.

what would its side effects cause?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I guess it is the fact that people think that you are just tweaking existing True Runes or the like.

I don't know why I but the only nation I can think of having a rune like the Rune Of Salvation described in the first post would be a Religion based one. Perhaps like someone finally toppling down it's corrupt Temple.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Similar to another True Rune?? The closest would be the Rune of Punishment, but Atonement and Forgiveness really doesn't encompass Redemption and Deliverance. If you look at the definition of each term you would see why I say that. But, it is rather similar to the Rune of Punishment nevertheless, so I can see why you would say it seems to be that way. But, the Soul Eater is similar to the Rune of Punishment, as well.

Side effects would be bearing with various tragedies the True Rune would make him face. The bearer would have to embrace the mortal sins of those around him or her along with their own shortcomings and seek redemption for those evils. Therefore, the bearer would be someone who has done some horrible deed, not a 'good' hero that we normally have seen.

This hero would have a tarnished path and makes a living by doing deeds that would not be looked on kindly by society. The True Rune would constantly cause the bearer to fight against him or herself seeking their own absolution. It's the idea of seeking to find the good in oneself eventhough they have lived a life of mayhem and chaos.

The negative effects of this True Rune would be constantly forcing the bearer to redeem the sins of their past while fighting against the desire of their old way of living. Constantly seeing the evils they committed in the past and having to come to grips with it and trying to overcome the person they used to be. The True Rune would bring the bearer's inner evil to the forefront and cause them to confront it. This is the constant path to redemption.

And I could see the Rune of Redemption being used in a theocracy, as well. But, it also works for any other nation. Salvation is not just strictly religious. It deals with an individual becoming whole and coming to grips with the negative side of themselves and learning that the side is necessary, but should let the evils of that negative side consume them. It's about coming to grips with one's inner evil and conquering it. That's the true meaning of salvation to me.
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Benit149

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
I like your idea Benit, sounds really intriguing. Perhaps one of the phases would be not being able to stop listening to the noises. Like you would hear everything so loudly that it would drive the user to insanity or something like that. The mute would be sueful too, but I think it would be right to have it be during the first stage because the hero/ine doesn't have the place to talk from. Great Idea!


Yeah, something like hearing others' hearts, good or evil, but not being able to say anything because the bearer became mute by the rune's Silence phase. And if the corrupt person is ignorant to music, which is how the bearer would communicate, then there's nothing they can do. Doesn't stop the bearer from being literate, but you never know. :)

The Sound phase would shut off the hearts of others, but allow the bearer to speak, so it's difficult to decide if you want to hear others or not.

Quote:
what the hell? what happend to the orginal "make a rune thread"?


It's locked b/c it got so off-tangent and predictable that it had to be closed. I realize now that if you let just anyone try to invent True Runes, you're going to get some crappy suggestions. :(

Quote:
anway it would be ironic if the sound rune made the bearer blind, or somthing.


I don't know how blindness can be equated to sound, other than sacrificing sight for enhanced hearing. But I personally think it's a better idea to have the bearer lose their voice in order to amplify their listening skills towards others, in exchange for their own voice (at least during the Silence phase). The Melody Rune would require someone empathetic.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

not so much predictable as asinine; when creating an idea for a true rune, a person has to put more than just a little thought into it-the powers, how they affect things and if this is a good idea as opposed to some wild creation someone wrote down simply because they *and pretty much only they* thought it was 'good.'
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

it would be nice if they could have a true rune of time, to grant power to reverse or forward time depending on user's will
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